[cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two

Tue Dec 26 22:23:38 CST 2006

Karen, I don't think that you are comparing weights here using the same 
amount of cooking on each stove.
My comparison: using 1 litre white gas fuel for 10 days (1.2 for 12 days) in 
an MSR XGK with 6 12 oz (340ml) bottles HEET for 12 days in the Fat Pika.
In both situations we were
boiling 4 cups of water for oatmeal and 4 cups of water for a drink in the 
morning and
cooking supper (4+ cups of water ) and boiling 4 cups water for a drink in 
the evening.
We probably do more cooking than most people on the trail!
So I think the comparison should be 1.2 litres of white gas vs 2.04 litres 
of HEET.
Using your SG figures, that is 1.2*0.69*2.2*16 ounces vs 2.04*0.787*2.2*16 
ounces
= 29.1 oz white gas vs 56.5 oz HEET

We certainly did not carry the HEET fuel in the 6 bottles - used two 1 litre 
plastic bottles instead (2 ounces each).

My comparison at start of 12 days was:
MSR XGK: 16 oz (stove including 32 oz bottle) + 2 oz (windshields) + 5 oz 
(spare parts) + 29.1 oz fuel + 1.5 oz small plastic bottle = 53.6 ounces
Fat Pika: 3.5 oz (stove, stand and windshields) + 4 oz (2 plastic 1 litre 
bottles) + 56.5 oz HEET = 64 ounces

When I did my comparison of the Fat Pika and the MSR, I considered the total 
pound-days of stove weight I'd be carrying not just the maximum weight of 
each system. On the last day into town with no fuel my comparison becomes
 Fat Pika: 3.5 oz (stove, stand and windshields) + 4 oz (2 plastic bottles) 
= 7.5 ounces vs
MSR XGK: 16 oz (stove including bottle) + 2 oz (windshields) + 5 oz (spare 
parts) + 1.5 oz small plastic bottle = 24.5 ounces.

And so the total number of pound-days for the 12 days is less for the Fat 
Pika but only just. (As the empty MSR weight minus the empty Fat Pika weight 
is greater than the full Fat pika weight minus the full MSR weight)

Most of the distances between towns involve carrying 8 or less days food and 
fuel so the starting weight of the white Gas and Alcohol systems is almost 
the same.
My comparison for 8 days: MSR 23.5 + 19.4 = 42.9 oz, Fat Pika: 7.5 + 37.7 = 
45.2 oz
The total pound-days of stove weight carried is much less for the Fat Pika.

In your MSR section you are saying to use a 22 oz bottle of fuel full. The 
32 oz metal Sigg bottle I use with my MSR only weighs 4.5 oz. So I don't 
think your 22 oz bottle weighs 15 oz.

Can you do all the cooking we did per day (listed above) using just 2 esbit 
tablets??

Maybe the Esbit stoves will still be your best bet, (we did not consider 
that option as we did not want to depend too much on mail drops) but I want 
to make sure you are using fuel quantities for the same amount of cooking 
for each stove. If you're going to use my alcohol numbers then I think it 
would be more meaningful to use weights of  the other fuels to correspond 
with the amount of cooking I did.

Yes, I too pondered for hours on this before our CDT trip and spent hours in 
the garage boiling water as well. The simplicity of the alcohol system was a 
factor in my decision too.

On the trail, I found the decision of how much water to carry between water 
sources was a hard one and I often carried water to a water source 
especially when the day turned out to be cooler than normal. This, I found 
was one of the major factors in total pack weight carried as one often 
carried water assuming the next source might be dry and it sometimes was.

Alistair

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Karen Somers" <kborski at yahoo.com>
To: <cdt-l at backcountry.net>
Cc: "Andy Somers" <andy_somers at yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 3:14 PM
Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two

> After getting more great information from Alistair and
> Ginny, I have been thinking about stove options FOR
> TWO all day.  Here is some weight data I thought I'd
> share for any interested (this is helping me decide
> the best option).  I am using the amount of fuel
> needed for the longest stretches, which Alistair
> reported to be 12 days.
>
> Specific gravity for calculating fuel weights:
> HEET s.g. is 0.787
> white gas s.g. is 0.69
> car gas s.g. is 0.739
> denatured alcohol s.g. is 0.809
>
> Esbits weigh 0.5 oz each
>
> ESBIT OPTION
> We each must carry a small cookpot and cook our
> dinners separately.  (It's not feasible to cook a
> two-person dinner with one Esbit tab, or even two
> tabs, because the pot has too large a surface area).
>
> 2, 0.9 L titanium pots:  2 x 4.9 oz = 9.8 oz
> 12 days of Esbits for two (24 tabs):  0.5 oz x 24 = 12
> oz
> Two Esbit stoves:  2 x 0.5 oz = 1.0 oz
> Extra wind screen:  0.3 oz
>
> Total:  23.1 oz (1.4 lbs)
>
>
> ALCOHOL STOVE OPTION
> This assumes one well-functioning stove that can
> really cook for two like the one Alistair described.
>
> 1, 2-L titanium pot:  8 oz
> 6, 12-oz bottles HEET:  56.6 oz fuel + 9 oz of bottle
> wt:  65.6
> (assumes 1.5 oz weight of bottle; you could reduce
> this by 2 oz using Gatorade bottles)
> Stove:  1 oz (assumed)
>
> Total:  74.6 oz (4.7 lbs)
>
>
> WHITE GAS OPTION
> Using the MSR Whisperlite Intl'
>
> 1, 2-L titanium pot:  8 oz
> 22 oz fuel bottle full:  15.1 oz gas + 15 oz bottle =
> 30.1
> stove: 10.8 oz
>
> Total:  48.9 oz (3.1 lbs)
>
>
> It looks like Esbit wins hands down in the weight
> contest.  I don't mean to get into a pros and cons
> debate about these different types of cooking systems,
> because each certainly has them, but I was quite
> shocked that 12 days of Esbit use is 1.5 lbs lighter
> than white gas and 3.3 lbs lighter than HEET.  We can
> carry 30 days of fuel at a time for still less than 12
> days of white gas or alcohol.
>
> Despite the expense, I think we'll opt for Esbits.
>
> Nocona
>
>
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