[cdt-l] cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 34

[linda butcher]

Nocona,
Esbit was my choice on the PCT and will also be what I will use on the CDT
this year.  To make this choice even lighter, I am thinking about making a
"cat can Esbit stove," similar to the alcohol cat can stove.  Once can
eliminate the stove and just find some flat rocks to surround the Esbit
tablets that are high enough to support a pot.  I used the rocks plan at
first, but some times I spent too much time finding the right size rocks, so
I broke down and bought the Esbit stove:)  I used less than one esbit tablet
per meal.  I often soaked the food before hand in an empty peanut butter jar
while still on the trail. To save fuel, I put the soaked noodle in the pot
and  removed the pot from the stove once it started boiling hard (if I
trusted the water to start with, if not let boil for a minute longer), then
added the cheese, etc., covered the pot, and set it aside to thicken and
cool down.  Often the tablet did not totally burn up, so I would throw some
dirt on it, and when cool, saved it.  After awhile I had enough little
tablet pieces to cook another meal.  I carried enough Esbit tablets to last
in between mail drops.  The stove, tin foil wind shield, a weeks supply of
tablets, spoon, cleaning rag and scrubbie, soap and a small 1/2 oz container
of denatured alcohol (before lighting, just a drop or two on the tablet in
windy conditions) all fit into my small titanium pot.  The only thing I did
not like about the Esbit tablets is the smell that sometimes chases you
around the pot, and it does take a little longer to boil water than other
stove choices. Oh, one other idea to lighten ones load: On the PCT,  I hiked
with two Canadians for a few days, one used his trekking poles for his
stove.  Here's how he did it:  He covered the bottom section of his poles
with tin foil, laid them side by side on the ground far enough apart to
support his pot, and lit up an Esbit tablet under the pot.  It worked for
him, his trail name was "Papa Grande."
Okay, I get long winded sometimes when reminiscencing -hope these ideas
might help someone.
Flat Feet, AT-90, PCT-00, "CDT-07"
----- Original Message -----
From: <cdt-l-request at backcountry.net>
To: <cdt-l at backcountry.net>
Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 8:47 PM
Subject: cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 34


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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Does using GPS diminish the experience? (Paul Magnanti)
>    2. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Alistair and Gail Des Moulins)
>    3. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Remy Levin)
>    4. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Karen Somers)
>    5. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Ginny & Jim Owen)
>    6. Re: Does using GPS diminish the experience? (Chris)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 10:14:31 -0800 (PST)
> From: Paul Magnanti <pmags at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [cdt-l] Does using GPS diminish the experience?
> To: CDT MailingList <cdt-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <303684.40713.qm at web31806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> This type of discussion ends up being what I call
> "Thru-hiker angels on the head of a pin". Something
> that is only discussed on hiking forums and is
> theoretical. :)
>
>
> In reality, whether you take a GPS or don't take a GPS
> is not going to diminish your experience. Take one,
> don't take one.
>
> The kind of experience you have on the the trail is
> what you put into the hike. The sunsets are still
> awesome, the remoteness of the trail is still
> wonderful, the journey is still rewarding.
>
> Just enjoy the hike one way or another. I did not take
> a GPS, friends of mine did. All of us had one hell of
> an experience.
>
>
>
> ************************************************************
> The true harvest of my life is intangible.... a little stardust
> caught, a portion of the rainbow I have clutched
> --Thoreau
> http://www.magnanti.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 13:27:58 -0700
> From: "Alistair and Gail Des Moulins" <aandg at telusplanet.net>
> Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
> To: <cdt-l at backcountry.net>, <kborski at yahoo.com>
> Message-ID: <003801c7292c$55e21c10$528dba89 at your4f1261a8e5>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Gail and I used a Fat Pika alcohol stove during our 5 months on the CDT
this
> year. See http://pbase.com/image/72011334/original for a photo of our
stove
> and stand in Wyoming's Great Basin.
> We used an MSR XGK white gas stove on our 6 month thru hike of the PCT in
> 2003.
> On the CDT on most days we had hot cereal and a hot drink for breakfast
and
> cooked a meal and a hot drink for supper. We used between 5 and 6 ounces
of
> fuel per day depending on water temperature and other factors. Each meal
and
> drink usually was 4 + cups of water. The stove would easily handle boiling
6
> cups of water and on a couple of nights we used it to melt snow but that
> requires almost double the fuel (and that's, of course, true for any
stove).
> On the PCT with the MSR we could get 10 to 11 days cooking from a litre
(35
> oz) of white gas.
> On the CDT we did two 12 day sections without resupply (East Glacier to
> Lincoln, and Dubois to Atlantic City, yes we are not fast hikers and we
> wanted to have spare days in the Winds). On these 2 sections we carried
six
> 12 oz bottles of HEET.
> For these 12 day loads the weight of six bottles of HEET and the Fat Pika
> stove exceeded the weight of the MSR stove, screen + stove parts + 12 days
> of white gas that we would have carried had we had the MSR. After 3 or 4
> days the weight of systems would have been about the same and after that
the
> Alcohol system total weight is less than the corresponding MSR system
> weight.
> Prior to our CDT trip I did tests of fuel usage and boil times using the
Fat
> Pika and the MSR. The Fat Pika used nearly double the volume of fuel
> compared to the MSR. The boil times of the Fat Pika were faster than the
> MSR. Also water boiled faster using a larger diameter pot - so if you
take
> a 2 litre capacity pot, an 8" diameter pot will require less fuel than a
7"
> diameter one.
> I realised we'd be carrying a larger total weight of stove and fuel on a
few
> days on the trip if we used the Fat Pika instead of the MSR but generally
> we'd be carrying less weight than the MSR.
> On balance, although our MSR had served us very well on the PCT, I decided
> to take the Fat Pika on the CDT because we'd not even have to worry about
> blocked jets, failing pump washers and leaking 'O' rings.
> On the CDT we found HEET was available at almost all town stops, white gas
> was not so available and was usually in gallon containers when we saw it.
> On the PCT with the MSR, we'd usually find a 'hiker can' of white gas in
> towns. If not we'd buy a gallon and leave the rest for following hikers.
> With only about 20 hikers going each way a year on the CDT this system
would
> not work so well and I think you'd end up buying a lot more gallons of
white
> gas.
>
> For more details on the Fat Pika stove see
> http://users.sisqtel.net/losthiker/pikastove/
>
> Alistair
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Karen Somers" <kborski at yahoo.com>
> To: <cdt-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 8:48 PM
> Subject: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
>
>
> > Ginny wrote:
> >
> > "We never had to carry more than one
> > full 20 oz Pepsi bottle for the two of us."
> >
> >
> > This brings up a topic that I am have a question
> > about......I'm looking for a two-person alcohol stove.
> > My past attempts to find an alcohol stove that will
> > cook a pot of food for two hikers were unsuccessful.
> > We've tried several different al. stove designs, but
> > it takes too much fuel to get a one liter plus pot of
> > water boiling.  So, my husband and I have always used
> > white gas when we are cooking for two.  It just proves
> > more economical all the way around.  However, we heard
> > that there was a new al. stove built for two (rumor at
> > the ADZ party).  Ginny and others, what alcohol stove
> > design do you use for two people?
> >
> > Nocona
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 13:06:04 -0800 (PST)
> From: Remy Levin <fellowship_of_yatzek at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
> To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <20061226210604.31571.qmail at web52402.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> We used the same alcohol stove we use on the PCT on the CDT this summer.
With over 7000 miles on it (it was purchased in hot springs, NC) It's beat
up , but still works great. It has  a capacity to hold  about 2 ounces of
Heet at a time, which was definitely enough for cooking 2+, sometimes three
liptons at a time.
> A few tips that save on gas and cook food faster: put the noodles in the
water a couple min. before putting the pot on the fire. Always use a
windscreen and avoid  windy spots as much as possible. Let the noodles sit
for a few min. after the stove is out- they don't have to cook completely
that way, as they will soften by soaking up water. plus, they'll be nice and
al dente ;)
> As to fuel, we found that we seldom needed more than 20 oz. at a stretch.
On sections where fuel was a problem, or water was a problem we ate cold,
which was a very refreshing change in diet.
> Cheers! Remy.
>
> Alistair and Gail Des Moulins <aandg at telusplanet.net> wrote: Gail and I
used a Fat Pika alcohol stove during our 5 months on the CDT this
> year. See http://pbase.com/image/72011334/original for a photo of our
stove
> and stand in Wyoming's Great Basin.
> We used an MSR XGK white gas stove on our 6 month thru hike of the PCT in
> 2003.
> On the CDT on most days we had hot cereal and a hot drink for breakfast
and
> cooked a meal and a hot drink for supper. We used between 5 and 6 ounces
of
> fuel per day depending on water temperature and other factors. Each meal
and
> drink usually was 4 + cups of water. The stove would easily handle boiling
6
> cups of water and on a couple of nights we used it to melt snow but that
> requires almost double the fuel (and that's, of course, true for any
stove).
> On the PCT with the MSR we could get 10 to 11 days cooking from a litre
(35
> oz) of white gas.
> On the CDT we did two 12 day sections without resupply (East Glacier to
> Lincoln, and Dubois to Atlantic City, yes we are not fast hikers and we
> wanted to have spare days in the Winds). On these 2 sections we carried
six
> 12 oz bottles of HEET.
> For these 12 day loads the weight of six bottles of HEET and the Fat Pika
> stove exceeded the weight of the MSR stove, screen + stove parts + 12 days
> of white gas that we would have carried had we had the MSR. After 3 or 4
> days the weight of systems would have been about the same and after that
the
> Alcohol system total weight is less than the corresponding MSR system
> weight.
> Prior to our CDT trip I did tests of fuel usage and boil times using the
Fat
> Pika and the MSR. The Fat Pika used nearly double the volume of fuel
> compared to the MSR. The boil times of the Fat Pika were faster than the
> MSR. Also water boiled faster using a larger diameter pot - so if you
take
> a 2 litre capacity pot, an 8" diameter pot will require less fuel than a
7"
> diameter one.
> I realised we'd be carrying a larger total weight of stove and fuel on a
few
> days on the trip if we used the Fat Pika instead of the MSR but generally
> we'd be carrying less weight than the MSR.
> On balance, although our MSR had served us very well on the PCT, I decided
> to take the Fat Pika on the CDT because we'd not even have to worry about
> blocked jets, failing pump washers and leaking 'O' rings.
> On the CDT we found HEET was available at almost all town stops, white gas
> was not so available and was usually in gallon containers when we saw it.
> On the PCT with the MSR, we'd usually find a 'hiker can' of white gas in
> towns. If not we'd buy a gallon and leave the rest for following hikers.
> With only about 20 hikers going each way a year on the CDT this system
would
> not work so well and I think you'd end up buying a lot more gallons of
white
> gas.
>
> For more details on the Fat Pika stove see
> http://users.sisqtel.net/losthiker/pikastove/
>
> Alistair
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Karen Somers"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 8:48 PM
> Subject: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
>
>
> > Ginny wrote:
> >
> > "We never had to carry more than one
> > full 20 oz Pepsi bottle for the two of us."
> >
> >
> > This brings up a topic that I am have a question
> > about......I'm looking for a two-person alcohol stove.
> > My past attempts to find an alcohol stove that will
> > cook a pot of food for two hikers were unsuccessful.
> > We've tried several different al. stove designs, but
> > it takes too much fuel to get a one liter plus pot of
> > water boiling.  So, my husband and I have always used
> > white gas when we are cooking for two.  It just proves
> > more economical all the way around.  However, we heard
> > that there was a new al. stove built for two (rumor at
> > the ADZ party).  Ginny and others, what alcohol stove
> > design do you use for two people?
> >
> > Nocona
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> cdt-l mailing list
> cdt-l at backcountry.net
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>
>
>  __________________________________________________
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> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 14:14:47 -0800 (PST)
> From: Karen Somers <kborski at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
> To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> Cc: Andy Somers <andy_somers at yahoo.com>
> Message-ID: <418120.39514.qm at web56906.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> After getting more great information from Alistair and
> Ginny, I have been thinking about stove options FOR
> TWO all day.  Here is some weight data I thought I'd
> share for any interested (this is helping me decide
> the best option).  I am using the amount of fuel
> needed for the longest stretches, which Alistair
> reported to be 12 days.
>
> Specific gravity for calculating fuel weights:
> HEET s.g. is 0.787
> white gas s.g. is 0.69
> car gas s.g. is 0.739
> denatured alcohol s.g. is 0.809
>
> Esbits weigh 0.5 oz each
>
> ESBIT OPTION
> We each must carry a small cookpot and cook our
> dinners separately.  (It's not feasible to cook a
> two-person dinner with one Esbit tab, or even two
> tabs, because the pot has too large a surface area).
>
> 2, 0.9 L titanium pots:  2 x 4.9 oz = 9.8 oz
> 12 days of Esbits for two (24 tabs):  0.5 oz x 24 = 12
> oz
> Two Esbit stoves:  2 x 0.5 oz = 1.0 oz
> Extra wind screen:  0.3 oz
>
> Total:  23.1 oz (1.4 lbs)
>
>
> ALCOHOL STOVE OPTION
> This assumes one well-functioning stove that can
> really cook for two like the one Alistair described.
>
> 1, 2-L titanium pot:  8 oz
> 6, 12-oz bottles HEET:  56.6 oz fuel + 9 oz of bottle
> wt:  65.6
> (assumes 1.5 oz weight of bottle; you could reduce
> this by 2 oz using Gatorade bottles)
> Stove:  1 oz (assumed)
>
> Total:  74.6 oz (4.7 lbs)
>
>
> WHITE GAS OPTION
> Using the MSR Whisperlite Intl'
>
> 1, 2-L titanium pot:  8 oz
> 22 oz fuel bottle full:  15.1 oz gas + 15 oz bottle =
> 30.1
> stove: 10.8 oz
>
> Total:  48.9 oz (3.1 lbs)
>
>
> It looks like Esbit wins hands down in the weight
> contest.  I don't mean to get into a pros and cons
> debate about these different types of cooking systems,
> because each certainly has them, but I was quite
> shocked that 12 days of Esbit use is 1.5 lbs lighter
> than white gas and 3.3 lbs lighter than HEET.  We can
> carry 30 days of fuel at a time for still less than 12
> days of white gas or alcohol.
>
> Despite the expense, I think we'll opt for Esbits.
>
> Nocona
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 17:34:56 -0500
> From: "Ginny & Jim Owen" <spiritbear2k at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
> To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <BAY101-F27795C62815A78B6E01A2287C10 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> I'm not sure where you're getting your weight numbers for the alcohol.
We
> boiled water for coffee in the morning (3/4 oz) and cooked dinner in the
> evening (1.5 to 2 oz).  Most stretches were 5-6 days between resupplies -
> one bottle of heet.  A few were 8 days - so we used a 20 oz bottle.  That
> really was enough.  We never ran out.
>
> Ginny
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: Karen Somers <kborski at yahoo.com>
> >Reply-To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> >To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> >CC: Andy Somers <andy_somers at yahoo.com>
> >Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
> >Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 14:14:47 -0800 (PST)
> >
> >After getting more great information from Alistair and
> >Ginny, I have been thinking about stove options FOR
> >TWO all day.  Here is some weight data I thought I'd
> >share for any interested (this is helping me decide
> >the best option).  I am using the amount of fuel
> >needed for the longest stretches, which Alistair
> >reported to be 12 days.
> >
> >Specific gravity for calculating fuel weights:
> >HEET s.g. is 0.787
> >white gas s.g. is 0.69
> >car gas s.g. is 0.739
> >denatured alcohol s.g. is 0.809
> >
> >Esbits weigh 0.5 oz each
> >
> >ESBIT OPTION
> >We each must carry a small cookpot and cook our
> >dinners separately.  (It's not feasible to cook a
> >two-person dinner with one Esbit tab, or even two
> >tabs, because the pot has too large a surface area).
> >
> >2, 0.9 L titanium pots:  2 x 4.9 oz = 9.8 oz
> >12 days of Esbits for two (24 tabs):  0.5 oz x 24 = 12
> >oz
> >Two Esbit stoves:  2 x 0.5 oz = 1.0 oz
> >Extra wind screen:  0.3 oz
> >
> >Total:  23.1 oz (1.4 lbs)
> >
> >
> >ALCOHOL STOVE OPTION
> >This assumes one well-functioning stove that can
> >really cook for two like the one Alistair described.
> >
> >1, 2-L titanium pot:  8 oz
> >6, 12-oz bottles HEET:  56.6 oz fuel + 9 oz of bottle
> >wt:  65.6
> >(assumes 1.5 oz weight of bottle; you could reduce
> >this by 2 oz using Gatorade bottles)
> >Stove:  1 oz (assumed)
> >
> >Total:  74.6 oz (4.7 lbs)
> >
> >
> >WHITE GAS OPTION
> >Using the MSR Whisperlite Intl'
> >
> >1, 2-L titanium pot:  8 oz
> >22 oz fuel bottle full:  15.1 oz gas + 15 oz bottle =
> >30.1
> >stove: 10.8 oz
> >
> >Total:  48.9 oz (3.1 lbs)
> >
> >
> >It looks like Esbit wins hands down in the weight
> >contest.  I don't mean to get into a pros and cons
> >debate about these different types of cooking systems,
> >because each certainly has them, but I was quite
> >shocked that 12 days of Esbit use is 1.5 lbs lighter
> >than white gas and 3.3 lbs lighter than HEET.  We can
> >carry 30 days of fuel at a time for still less than 12
> >days of white gas or alcohol.
> >
> >Despite the expense, I think we'll opt for Esbits.
> >
> >Nocona
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________
> >Do You Yahoo!?
> >Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> >http://mail.yahoo.com
> >_______________________________________________
> >cdt-l mailing list
> >cdt-l at backcountry.net
> >http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here.  Get all the scoop.
> http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 17:56:41 -0800 (PST)
> From: Chris <spur at mac.com>
> Subject: Re: [cdt-l] Does using GPS diminish the experience?
> To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <28145358.1167184601944.JavaMail.root at m16>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I for one am not ashamed to say that I would probably be dead by
> now had I not had the help of a GPS on my long CDT hikes.
>
> But YMMV...
>
> Spur ;-)
>
> http://www.artofthetrail.com
>
>
>
> On Tue Dec 26 10:14:31 PST 2006, Paul Magnanti <pmags at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > This type of discussion ends up being what I call
> > "Thru-hiker angels on the head of a pin". Something
> > that is only discussed on hiking forums and is
> > theoretical. :)
> >
> >
> > In reality, whether you take a GPS or don't take a GPS
> > is not going to diminish your experience. Take one,
> > don't take one. The kind of experience you have on the the trail
> > is
> > what you put into the hike. The sunsets are still
> > awesome, the remoteness of the trail is still
> > wonderful, the journey is still rewarding.
> >
> > Just enjoy the hike one way or another. I did not take
> > a GPS, friends of mine did. All of us had one hell of
> > an experience.
> >
> >
> >
> > ************************************************************
> > The true harvest of my life is intangible.... a little stardust
> > caught, a portion of the rainbow I have clutched
> > --Thoreau
> > http://www.magnanti.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > cdt-l mailing list
> > cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> cdt-l mailing list
> cdt-l at backcountry.net
> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l
>
>
> End of cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 34
> *************************************