[cdt-l] cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 40
glen fleag
fiddleheadpa at hotmail.com
Sat Dec 30 00:43:07 CST 2006
In my mind, you don't need a long ice axe, it's more important to sink
whichever one you have deep into the snow. When i climbed in Nepal, i left
my good ice ax at home and the Sherpas gave me one that was about a foot
long. It got me to 20,000'. Although it was short, it was ok. It was
good for the steep climbs but a long one would've been ok too.
As far as boxing it up, you just have to get a bunch of cardboard, a roll of
tape and an hour of time. Create your own package. Just wrap the ice ax
in cardboard and fold it up and tape the sh**t out of it and send it.
Hope this helps.
>From: "linda butcher" <mountainbliss at alltel.net>
>Reply-To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
>To: <cdt-l at backcountry.net>
>Subject: Re: [cdt-l] cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 40
>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 21:21:42 -0500
>
>I don't want to belabor our Esbit story, so here goes for field expedient
>cooking: Clothes dryer lint with petroleum jelly. The combo smokes, but
>what the heck, the price is right.
> If we are about finished with the cooking fuel info, I would like to
>introduce another topic - The ice axe. My ice axe is 85cm. The size works
>for me, since I am 6'4" and I can use it like a trekking pole. However,
>the
>problems I have with it are finding a box long enough to mail it home and
>back if I need it again; it's longer than my back pack; and its weight.
>Also, it might be too long for steep climbs. Not being familier with the
>climbs on the CDT, would someone with knowledge of them give me some ice
>axe
>requirement advice? Thanks.
>Gene Butcher - Flat Feet
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <cdt-l-request at backcountry.net>
>To: <cdt-l at backcountry.net>
>Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 12:56 AM
>Subject: cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 40
>
>
> > Send cdt-l mailing list submissions to
> > cdt-l at backcountry.net
> >
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> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> > than "Re: Contents of cdt-l digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Slyatpct at aol.com)
> > 2. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Ken Powers)
> > 3. Re: esbits (Anitra Kass)
> > 4. Esbits (Francis Tapon)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 13:14:13 EST
> > From: Slyatpct at aol.com
> > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
> > To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > Message-ID: <c3d.c703ff7.32c56375 at aol.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 12/28/2006 12:52:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > footslogger03 at yahoo.com writes:
> >
> > But I too would like to know if there is a way to refill/recylcle the
>empty
> > metal cannisters
> >
> >
> > I know a guy who made a male/male valve system using the 1lb Coleman
>propane
> > to refill his Primus canisters to save money. He's attach the two and
>let
> > liquid/gas flow down into the Primus canister. It worked well until one
> > blew-up in his wife's pack whike she was hiking on a hot, sunny day.
>He
>attributed
> > the 'explosion" to over filling. Fortunately, she wasn't injured, but
>if
> > I'm not mistaken her pack was damaged.
> >
> > It seems taking a couple partially full canisters on a weekend trip
>would
>be
> > safest.
> >
> > Sly
> > -------------- next part --------------
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>ment-0001.html
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 10:43:45 -0800
> > From: "Ken Powers" <kdpo at pacbell.net>
> > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
> > To: <cdt-l at backcountry.net>
> > Message-ID: <025501c72ab0$1bced920$6401a8c0 at GottaWalk>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > We use the partials for weekend trips. Yeh, we carry a couple on the
>short
>hikes. Or remodel your kitchen. ;) Refilling them yourself sounds dangerous
>to me.
> >
> > I hate having to put my warm hands on a canister on an icy morning. I
>have
>made it a habit to sleep with my canister in cold weather. I think the
>problem is the cold, not the altitude.
> >
> > We rationalize that for long hikes we are using so few cans that adding
>a
>canister or 2 every week to the garbage isn't too bad. We have heard that
>we
>can take the emptys to REI Berkeley for recycling. But we have never
>checked
>up on that. It may just be a rumor.
> >
> > Ken
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Slyatpct at aol.com
> > To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 10:14 AM
> > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 12/28/2006 12:52:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>footslogger03 at yahoo.com writes:
> > But I too would like to know if there is a way to refill/recylcle
>the
>empty metal cannisters
> > I know a guy who made a male/male valve system using the 1lb Coleman
>propane to refill his Primus canisters to save money. He's attach the two
>and let liquid/gas flow down into the Primus canister. It worked well until
>one blew-up in his wife's pack whike she was hiking on a hot, sunny day.
>He
>attributed the 'explosion" to over filling. Fortunately, she wasn't
>injured, but if I'm not mistaken her pack was damaged.
> >
> > It seems taking a couple partially full canisters on a weekend trip
>would be safest.
> >
> > Sly
> >
> >
> >
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > cdt-l mailing list
> > cdt-l at backcountry.net
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 19:55:01 -0800 (PST)
> > From: Anitra Kass <at_anitra at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] esbits
> > To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > Message-ID: <649185.56889.qm at web34314.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > I know I am late on joining in on this one but I use the bottom portion
>(2
>inches maybe) of a coke can with holes punched around so that air can get
>to
>the fire...it's worked well so far and it's super light and free since I
>drink coke incessantly.
> > NITRO
> >
> > Karen Somers <kborski at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Linda,
> >
> > I've found the best esbit stoves can be purchased at
> > BackpackingLight.com. They are the Esbit folding wing
> > stoves, one is steel (1.3 oz) and the other is
> > titanium (0.5 oz). The steel version only lasts about
> > 2 months before finally wearing thin on the hinges and
> > breaking. But for $3 each, who's going to complain?
> > The titanium version is $20, but should not break (I
> > haven't used that one yet).
> >
> > I also have a friend who thru-hiked the CDT just
> > cooking on the ground either holding his pot over the
> > esbit or using rocks. I've tried this and can't stand
> > it, but I think the little folding stoves are genious.
> > The hiking pole idea is good, too.
> >
> > Steel version:
> >
>http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/esbit_folding_wing_
>stove.html
> >
> > Titanium version:
> >
>http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/titanium-esbit-wing
>-stove.html
> >
> > Nocona
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
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> > _______________________________________________
> > cdt-l mailing list
> > cdt-l at backcountry.net
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> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
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> > http://mail.yahoo.com
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 22:04:10 -0800
> > From: "Francis Tapon" <ft at francistapon.com>
> > Subject: [cdt-l] Esbits
> > To: <cdt-l at backcountry.net>
> > Message-ID:
> > <001a01c72b0f$4328f550$660fa8c0 at redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >
> > Flat Feet has several outstanding ideas there. I especially like the
>idea
>of
> > pre-soaking to save fuel. An extremist might just soak and eat food cold
>to
> > leave behind all the cooking stuff! (Has anyone tried this?)
> >
> > Here's an idea to let you leave the Esbit stove behind. Instead of
>finding
> > flat rocks, use your tarp/tent stakes!
> >
> > 1) Shove at least 3 stakes into the dirt to create an even platform to
>place
> > the pot.
> >
> > 2) Place the Esbit tablet on a small piece of aluminum foil under the
>pot.
> >
> > 3) Light Esbit and voila!
> >
> > A variation is instead of using a tiny piece of foil, use a large piece
>of
> > aluminum foil to create a windscreen. Mold the foil around the stakes.
> >
> > If the dirt is so hard that the stakes don't go in too deep (but they do
>go
> > in), then slip a rock under the foil to bring the Esbit closer to the
>pot.
> >
> > I agree that Esbits have a slightly unpleasant smell. I always keep them
>in
> > a ziplock on an outside pouch of my pack so the smell doesn't permeate
>the
> > pot or food.
> >
> > One more thing: instead of throwing dirt on the Esbit to blow it out,
>just
> > blow it out with your breath. That way when you re-light it the Esbit
>will
> > burn as efficiently as possible. (OK, I realize a little dirt probably
>won't
> > make any difference in how it burns, but blowing it out seems a more
>elegant
> > and tidy solution, and we know thru-hikers are all about tidiness!) :-)
> >
> > Happy New Year!
> >
> > Francis Tapon
> > Check out this 2 minute video:
> >
>http://www.mydream.tv/dream_category.php?dc=66f041e16a60928b05a7e228a89c3799
> >
> > Learn about my book, Hike Your Own Hike: 7 Life Lessons from Backpacking
> > Across America, at: http://www.FrancisTapon.com/book
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: linda butcher [mailto:mountainbliss at alltel.net]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 8:25 PM
> > > To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 34
> > >
> > > Nocona,
> > > Esbit was my choice on the PCT and will also be what I will use on the
>CDT
> > > this year. To make this choice even lighter, I am thinking about
>making
>a
> > > "cat can Esbit stove," similar to the alcohol cat can stove. Once can
> > > eliminate the stove and just find some flat rocks to surround the
>Esbit
> > > tablets that are high enough to support a pot. I used the rocks plan
>at
> > > first, but some times I spent too much time finding the right size
>rocks,
> > > so
> > > I broke down and bought the Esbit stove:) I used less than one esbit
> > > tablet
> > > per meal. I often soaked the food before hand in an empty peanut
>butter
> > > jar
> > > while still on the trail. To save fuel, I put the soaked noodle in the
>pot
> > > and removed the pot from the stove once it started boiling hard (if I
> > > trusted the water to start with, if not let boil for a minute longer),
> > > then
> > > added the cheese, etc., covered the pot, and set it aside to thicken
>and
> > > cool down. Often the tablet did not totally burn up, so I would throw
> > > some
> > > dirt on it, and when cool, saved it. After awhile I had enough little
> > > tablet pieces to cook another meal. I carried enough Esbit tablets to
> > > last
> > > in between mail drops. The stove, tin foil wind shield, a weeks
>supply
>of
> > > tablets, spoon, cleaning rag and scrubbie, soap and a small 1/2 oz
> > > container
> > > of denatured alcohol (before lighting, just a drop or two on the
>tablet
>in
> > > windy conditions) all fit into my small titanium pot. The only thing
>I
> > > did
> > > not like about the Esbit tablets is the smell that sometimes chases
>you
> > > around the pot, and it does take a little longer to boil water than
>other
> > > stove choices. Oh, one other idea to lighten ones load: On the PCT, I
> > > hiked
> > > with two Canadians for a few days, one used his trekking poles for his
> > > stove. Here's how he did it: He covered the bottom section of his
>poles
> > > with tin foil, laid them side by side on the ground far enough apart
>to
> > > support his pot, and lit up an Esbit tablet under the pot. It worked
>for
> > > him, his trail name was "Papa Grande."
> > > Okay, I get long winded sometimes when reminiscencing -hope these
>ideas
> > > might help someone.
> > > Flat Feet, AT-90, PCT-00, "CDT-07"
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <cdt-l-request at backcountry.net>
> > > To: <cdt-l at backcountry.net>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 8:47 PM
> > > Subject: cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 34
> > >
> > >
> > > > Send cdt-l mailing list submissions to
> > > > cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > > >
> > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > > > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l
> > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > > cdt-l-request at backcountry.net
> > > >
> > > > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > > > cdt-l-owner at backcountry.net
> > > >
> > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > > > than "Re: Contents of cdt-l digest..."
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Today's Topics:
> > > >
> > > > 1. Does using GPS diminish the experience? (Paul Magnanti)
> > > > 2. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Alistair and Gail Des Moulins)
> > > > 3. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Remy Levin)
> > > > 4. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Karen Somers)
> > > > 5. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Ginny & Jim Owen)
> > > > 6. Re: Does using GPS diminish the experience? (Chris)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Message: 1
> > > > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 10:14:31 -0800 (PST)
> > > > From: Paul Magnanti <pmags at yahoo.com>
> > > > Subject: [cdt-l] Does using GPS diminish the experience?
> > > > To: CDT MailingList <cdt-l at backcountry.net>
> > > > Message-ID: <303684.40713.qm at web31806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> > > >
> > > > This type of discussion ends up being what I call
> > > > "Thru-hiker angels on the head of a pin". Something
> > > > that is only discussed on hiking forums and is
> > > > theoretical. :)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In reality, whether you take a GPS or don't take a GPS
> > > > is not going to diminish your experience. Take one,
> > > > don't take one.
> > > >
> > > > The kind of experience you have on the the trail is
> > > > what you put into the hike. The sunsets are still
> > > > awesome, the remoteness of the trail is still
> > > > wonderful, the journey is still rewarding.
> > > >
> > > > Just enjoy the hike one way or another. I did not take
> > > > a GPS, friends of mine did. All of us had one hell of
> > > > an experience.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ************************************************************
> > > > The true harvest of my life is intangible.... a little stardust
> > > > caught, a portion of the rainbow I have clutched
> > > > --Thoreau
> > > > http://www.magnanti.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Message: 2
> > > > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 13:27:58 -0700
> > > > From: "Alistair and Gail Des Moulins" <aandg at telusplanet.net>
> > > > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
> > > > To: <cdt-l at backcountry.net>, <kborski at yahoo.com>
> > > > Message-ID: <003801c7292c$55e21c10$528dba89 at your4f1261a8e5>
> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> > > > reply-type=original
> > > >
> > > > Gail and I used a Fat Pika alcohol stove during our 5 months on the
>CDT
> > > this
> > > > year. See http://pbase.com/image/72011334/original for a photo of
>our
> > > stove
> > > > and stand in Wyoming's Great Basin.
> > > > We used an MSR XGK white gas stove on our 6 month thru hike of the
>PCT
> > > in
> > > > 2003.
> > > > On the CDT on most days we had hot cereal and a hot drink for
>breakfast
> > > and
> > > > cooked a meal and a hot drink for supper. We used between 5 and 6
>ounces
> > > of
> > > > fuel per day depending on water temperature and other factors. Each
>meal
> > > and
> > > > drink usually was 4 + cups of water. The stove would easily handle
> > > boiling
> > > 6
> > > > cups of water and on a couple of nights we used it to melt snow but
>that
> > > > requires almost double the fuel (and that's, of course, true for any
> > > stove).
> > > > On the PCT with the MSR we could get 10 to 11 days cooking from a
>litre
> > > (35
> > > > oz) of white gas.
> > > > On the CDT we did two 12 day sections without resupply (East Glacier
>to
> > > > Lincoln, and Dubois to Atlantic City, yes we are not fast hikers and
>we
> > > > wanted to have spare days in the Winds). On these 2 sections we
>carried
> > > six
> > > > 12 oz bottles of HEET.
> > > > For these 12 day loads the weight of six bottles of HEET and the Fat
> > > Pika
> > > > stove exceeded the weight of the MSR stove, screen + stove parts +
>12
> > > days
> > > > of white gas that we would have carried had we had the MSR. After 3
>or
>4
> > > > days the weight of systems would have been about the same and after
>that
> > > the
> > > > Alcohol system total weight is less than the corresponding MSR
>system
> > > > weight.
> > > > Prior to our CDT trip I did tests of fuel usage and boil times using
>the
> > > Fat
> > > > Pika and the MSR. The Fat Pika used nearly double the volume of fuel
> > > > compared to the MSR. The boil times of the Fat Pika were faster than
>the
> > > > MSR. Also water boiled faster using a larger diameter pot - so if
>you
> > > take
> > > > a 2 litre capacity pot, an 8" diameter pot will require less fuel
>than
>a
> > > 7"
> > > > diameter one.
> > > > I realised we'd be carrying a larger total weight of stove and fuel
>on
>a
> > > few
> > > > days on the trip if we used the Fat Pika instead of the MSR but
> > > generally
> > > > we'd be carrying less weight than the MSR.
> > > > On balance, although our MSR had served us very well on the PCT, I
> > > decided
> > > > to take the Fat Pika on the CDT because we'd not even have to worry
> > > about
> > > > blocked jets, failing pump washers and leaking 'O' rings.
> > > > On the CDT we found HEET was available at almost all town stops,
>white
> > > gas
> > > > was not so available and was usually in gallon containers when we
>saw
> > it.
> > > > On the PCT with the MSR, we'd usually find a 'hiker can' of white
>gas
>in
> > > > towns. If not we'd buy a gallon and leave the rest for following
>hikers.
> > > > With only about 20 hikers going each way a year on the CDT this
>system
> > > would
> > > > not work so well and I think you'd end up buying a lot more gallons
>of
> > > white
> > > > gas.
> > > >
> > > > For more details on the Fat Pika stove see
> > > > http://users.sisqtel.net/losthiker/pikastove/
> > > >
> > > > Alistair
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Karen Somers" <kborski at yahoo.com>
> > > > To: <cdt-l at backcountry.net>
> > > > Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 8:48 PM
> > > > Subject: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Ginny wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > "We never had to carry more than one
> > > > > full 20 oz Pepsi bottle for the two of us."
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > This brings up a topic that I am have a question
> > > > > about......I'm looking for a two-person alcohol stove.
> > > > > My past attempts to find an alcohol stove that will
> > > > > cook a pot of food for two hikers were unsuccessful.
> > > > > We've tried several different al. stove designs, but
> > > > > it takes too much fuel to get a one liter plus pot of
> > > > > water boiling. So, my husband and I have always used
> > > > > white gas when we are cooking for two. It just proves
> > > > > more economical all the way around. However, we heard
> > > > > that there was a new al. stove built for two (rumor at
> > > > > the ADZ party). Ginny and others, what alcohol stove
> > > > > design do you use for two people?
> > > > >
> > > > > Nocona
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Message: 3
> > > > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 13:06:04 -0800 (PST)
> > > > From: Remy Levin <fellowship_of_yatzek at yahoo.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
> > > > To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > > > Message-ID: <20061226210604.31571.qmail at web52402.mail.yahoo.com>
> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > > >
> > > > We used the same alcohol stove we use on the PCT on the CDT this
>summer.
> > > With over 7000 miles on it (it was purchased in hot springs, NC) It's
>beat
> > > up , but still works great. It has a capacity to hold about 2 ounces
>of
> > > Heet at a time, which was definitely enough for cooking 2+, sometimes
> > > three
> > > liptons at a time.
> > > > A few tips that save on gas and cook food faster: put the noodles in
>the
> > > water a couple min. before putting the pot on the fire. Always use a
> > > windscreen and avoid windy spots as much as possible. Let the noodles
>sit
> > > for a few min. after the stove is out- they don't have to cook
>completely
> > > that way, as they will soften by soaking up water. plus, they'll be
>nice
> > > and
> > > al dente ;)
> > > > As to fuel, we found that we seldom needed more than 20 oz. at a
> > stretch.
> > > On sections where fuel was a problem, or water was a problem we ate
>cold,
> > > which was a very refreshing change in diet.
> > > > Cheers! Remy.
> > > >
> > > > Alistair and Gail Des Moulins <aandg at telusplanet.net> wrote: Gail
>and
>I
> > > used a Fat Pika alcohol stove during our 5 months on the CDT this
> > > > year. See http://pbase.com/image/72011334/original for a photo of
>our
> > > stove
> > > > and stand in Wyoming's Great Basin.
> > > > We used an MSR XGK white gas stove on our 6 month thru hike of the
>PCT
> > > in
> > > > 2003.
> > > > On the CDT on most days we had hot cereal and a hot drink for
>breakfast
> > > and
> > > > cooked a meal and a hot drink for supper. We used between 5 and 6
>ounces
> > > of
> > > > fuel per day depending on water temperature and other factors. Each
>meal
> > > and
> > > > drink usually was 4 + cups of water. The stove would easily handle
> > > boiling
> > > 6
> > > > cups of water and on a couple of nights we used it to melt snow but
>that
> > > > requires almost double the fuel (and that's, of course, true for any
> > > stove).
> > > > On the PCT with the MSR we could get 10 to 11 days cooking from a
>litre
> > > (35
> > > > oz) of white gas.
> > > > On the CDT we did two 12 day sections without resupply (East Glacier
>to
> > > > Lincoln, and Dubois to Atlantic City, yes we are not fast hikers and
>we
> > > > wanted to have spare days in the Winds). On these 2 sections we
>carried
> > > six
> > > > 12 oz bottles of HEET.
> > > > For these 12 day loads the weight of six bottles of HEET and the Fat
> > > Pika
> > > > stove exceeded the weight of the MSR stove, screen + stove parts +
>12
> > > days
> > > > of white gas that we would have carried had we had the MSR. After 3
>or
>4
> > > > days the weight of systems would have been about the same and after
>that
> > > the
> > > > Alcohol system total weight is less than the corresponding MSR
>system
> > > > weight.
> > > > Prior to our CDT trip I did tests of fuel usage and boil times using
>the
> > > Fat
> > > > Pika and the MSR. The Fat Pika used nearly double the volume of fuel
> > > > compared to the MSR. The boil times of the Fat Pika were faster than
>the
> > > > MSR. Also water boiled faster using a larger diameter pot - so if
>you
> > > take
> > > > a 2 litre capacity pot, an 8" diameter pot will require less fuel
>than
>a
> > > 7"
> > > > diameter one.
> > > > I realised we'd be carrying a larger total weight of stove and fuel
>on
>a
> > > few
> > > > days on the trip if we used the Fat Pika instead of the MSR but
> > > generally
> > > > we'd be carrying less weight than the MSR.
> > > > On balance, although our MSR had served us very well on the PCT, I
> > > decided
> > > > to take the Fat Pika on the CDT because we'd not even have to worry
> > > about
> > > > blocked jets, failing pump washers and leaking 'O' rings.
> > > > On the CDT we found HEET was available at almost all town stops,
>white
> > > gas
> > > > was not so available and was usually in gallon containers when we
>saw
> > it.
> > > > On the PCT with the MSR, we'd usually find a 'hiker can' of white
>gas
>in
> > > > towns. If not we'd buy a gallon and leave the rest for following
>hikers.
> > > > With only about 20 hikers going each way a year on the CDT this
>system
> > > would
> > > > not work so well and I think you'd end up buying a lot more gallons
>of
> > > white
> > > > gas.
> > > >
> > > > For more details on the Fat Pika stove see
> > > > http://users.sisqtel.net/losthiker/pikastove/
> > > >
> > > > Alistair
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Karen Somers"
> > > > To:
> > > > Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 8:48 PM
> > > > Subject: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Ginny wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > "We never had to carry more than one
> > > > > full 20 oz Pepsi bottle for the two of us."
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > This brings up a topic that I am have a question
> > > > > about......I'm looking for a two-person alcohol stove.
> > > > > My past attempts to find an alcohol stove that will
> > > > > cook a pot of food for two hikers were unsuccessful.
> > > > > We've tried several different al. stove designs, but
> > > > > it takes too much fuel to get a one liter plus pot of
> > > > > water boiling. So, my husband and I have always used
> > > > > white gas when we are cooking for two. It just proves
> > > > > more economical all the way around. However, we heard
> > > > > that there was a new al. stove built for two (rumor at
> > > > > the ADZ party). Ginny and others, what alcohol stove
> > > > > design do you use for two people?
> > > > >
> > > > > Nocona
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > cdt-l mailing list
> > > > cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > > > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > > URL:
> > > http://mailman.hack.net/pipermail/cdt-
> > > l/attachments/20061226/97f6b1b9/attach
> > > ment-0001.html
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Message: 4
> > > > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 14:14:47 -0800 (PST)
> > > > From: Karen Somers <kborski at yahoo.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
> > > > To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > > > Cc: Andy Somers <andy_somers at yahoo.com>
> > > > Message-ID: <418120.39514.qm at web56906.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> > > >
> > > > After getting more great information from Alistair and
> > > > Ginny, I have been thinking about stove options FOR
> > > > TWO all day. Here is some weight data I thought I'd
> > > > share for any interested (this is helping me decide
> > > > the best option). I am using the amount of fuel
> > > > needed for the longest stretches, which Alistair
> > > > reported to be 12 days.
> > > >
> > > > Specific gravity for calculating fuel weights:
> > > > HEET s.g. is 0.787
> > > > white gas s.g. is 0.69
> > > > car gas s.g. is 0.739
> > > > denatured alcohol s.g. is 0.809
> > > >
> > > > Esbits weigh 0.5 oz each
> > > >
> > > > ESBIT OPTION
> > > > We each must carry a small cookpot and cook our
> > > > dinners separately. (It's not feasible to cook a
> > > > two-person dinner with one Esbit tab, or even two
> > > > tabs, because the pot has too large a surface area).
> > > >
> > > > 2, 0.9 L titanium pots: 2 x 4.9 oz = 9.8 oz
> > > > 12 days of Esbits for two (24 tabs): 0.5 oz x 24 = 12
> > > > oz
> > > > Two Esbit stoves: 2 x 0.5 oz = 1.0 oz
> > > > Extra wind screen: 0.3 oz
> > > >
> > > > Total: 23.1 oz (1.4 lbs)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ALCOHOL STOVE OPTION
> > > > This assumes one well-functioning stove that can
> > > > really cook for two like the one Alistair described.
> > > >
> > > > 1, 2-L titanium pot: 8 oz
> > > > 6, 12-oz bottles HEET: 56.6 oz fuel + 9 oz of bottle
> > > > wt: 65.6
> > > > (assumes 1.5 oz weight of bottle; you could reduce
> > > > this by 2 oz using Gatorade bottles)
> > > > Stove: 1 oz (assumed)
> > > >
> > > > Total: 74.6 oz (4.7 lbs)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > WHITE GAS OPTION
> > > > Using the MSR Whisperlite Intl'
> > > >
> > > > 1, 2-L titanium pot: 8 oz
> > > > 22 oz fuel bottle full: 15.1 oz gas + 15 oz bottle =
> > > > 30.1
> > > > stove: 10.8 oz
> > > >
> > > > Total: 48.9 oz (3.1 lbs)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It looks like Esbit wins hands down in the weight
> > > > contest. I don't mean to get into a pros and cons
> > > > debate about these different types of cooking systems,
> > > > because each certainly has them, but I was quite
> > > > shocked that 12 days of Esbit use is 1.5 lbs lighter
> > > > than white gas and 3.3 lbs lighter than HEET. We can
> > > > carry 30 days of fuel at a time for still less than 12
> > > > days of white gas or alcohol.
> > > >
> > > > Despite the expense, I think we'll opt for Esbits.
> > > >
> > > > Nocona
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Message: 5
> > > > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 17:34:56 -0500
> > > > From: "Ginny & Jim Owen" <spiritbear2k at hotmail.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
> > > > To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > > > Message-ID: <BAY101-F27795C62815A78B6E01A2287C10 at phx.gbl>
> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
> > > >
> > > > I'm not sure where you're getting your weight numbers for the
>alcohol.
> > > We
> > > > boiled water for coffee in the morning (3/4 oz) and cooked dinner in
>the
> > > > evening (1.5 to 2 oz). Most stretches were 5-6 days between
>resupplies
> > > -
> > > > one bottle of heet. A few were 8 days - so we used a 20 oz bottle.
> > > That
> > > > really was enough. We never ran out.
> > > >
> > > > Ginny
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----------------------------------------------------------
> > > > http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: Karen Somers <kborski at yahoo.com>
> > > > >Reply-To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > > > >To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > > > >CC: Andy Somers <andy_somers at yahoo.com>
> > > > >Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
> > > > >Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 14:14:47 -0800 (PST)
> > > > >
> > > > >After getting more great information from Alistair and
> > > > >Ginny, I have been thinking about stove options FOR
> > > > >TWO all day. Here is some weight data I thought I'd
> > > > >share for any interested (this is helping me decide
> > > > >the best option). I am using the amount of fuel
> > > > >needed for the longest stretches, which Alistair
> > > > >reported to be 12 days.
> > > > >
> > > > >Specific gravity for calculating fuel weights:
> > > > >HEET s.g. is 0.787
> > > > >white gas s.g. is 0.69
> > > > >car gas s.g. is 0.739
> > > > >denatured alcohol s.g. is 0.809
> > > > >
> > > > >Esbits weigh 0.5 oz each
> > > > >
> > > > >ESBIT OPTION
> > > > >We each must carry a small cookpot and cook our
> > > > >dinners separately. (It's not feasible to cook a
> > > > >two-person dinner with one Esbit tab, or even two
> > > > >tabs, because the pot has too large a surface area).
> > > > >
> > > > >2, 0.9 L titanium pots: 2 x 4.9 oz = 9.8 oz
> > > > >12 days of Esbits for two (24 tabs): 0.5 oz x 24 = 12
> > > > >oz
> > > > >Two Esbit stoves: 2 x 0.5 oz = 1.0 oz
> > > > >Extra wind screen: 0.3 oz
> > > > >
> > > > >Total: 23.1 oz (1.4 lbs)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >ALCOHOL STOVE OPTION
> > > > >This assumes one well-functioning stove that can
> > > > >really cook for two like the one Alistair described.
> > > > >
> > > > >1, 2-L titanium pot: 8 oz
> > > > >6, 12-oz bottles HEET: 56.6 oz fuel + 9 oz of bottle
> > > > >wt: 65.6
> > > > >(assumes 1.5 oz weight of bottle; you could reduce
> > > > >this by 2 oz using Gatorade bottles)
> > > > >Stove: 1 oz (assumed)
> > > > >
> > > > >Total: 74.6 oz (4.7 lbs)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >WHITE GAS OPTION
> > > > >Using the MSR Whisperlite Intl'
> > > > >
> > > > >1, 2-L titanium pot: 8 oz
> > > > >22 oz fuel bottle full: 15.1 oz gas + 15 oz bottle =
> > > > >30.1
> > > > >stove: 10.8 oz
> > > > >
> > > > >Total: 48.9 oz (3.1 lbs)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >It looks like Esbit wins hands down in the weight
> > > > >contest. I don't mean to get into a pros and cons
> > > > >debate about these different types of cooking systems,
> > > > >because each certainly has them, but I was quite
> > > > >shocked that 12 days of Esbit use is 1.5 lbs lighter
> > > > >than white gas and 3.3 lbs lighter than HEET. We can
> > > > >carry 30 days of fuel at a time for still less than 12
> > > > >days of white gas or alcohol.
> > > > >
> > > > >Despite the expense, I think we'll opt for Esbits.
> > > > >
> > > > >Nocona
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >__________________________________________________
> > > > >Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > > >http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > >cdt-l mailing list
> > > > >cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > > > >http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all the
> > scoop.
> > > > http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Message: 6
> > > > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 17:56:41 -0800 (PST)
> > > > From: Chris <spur at mac.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] Does using GPS diminish the experience?
> > > > To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > > > Message-ID: <28145358.1167184601944.JavaMail.root at m16>
> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > > >
> > > > I for one am not ashamed to say that I would probably be dead by
> > > > now had I not had the help of a GPS on my long CDT hikes.
> > > >
> > > > But YMMV...
> > > >
> > > > Spur ;-)
> > > >
> > > > http://www.artofthetrail.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue Dec 26 10:14:31 PST 2006, Paul Magnanti <pmags at yahoo.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > This type of discussion ends up being what I call
> > > > > "Thru-hiker angels on the head of a pin". Something
> > > > > that is only discussed on hiking forums and is
> > > > > theoretical. :)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In reality, whether you take a GPS or don't take a GPS
> > > > > is not going to diminish your experience. Take one,
> > > > > don't take one. The kind of experience you have on the the trail
> > > > > is
> > > > > what you put into the hike. The sunsets are still
> > > > > awesome, the remoteness of the trail is still
> > > > > wonderful, the journey is still rewarding.
> > > > >
> > > > > Just enjoy the hike one way or another. I did not take
> > > > > a GPS, friends of mine did. All of us had one hell of
> > > > > an experience.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ************************************************************
> > > > > The true harvest of my life is intangible.... a little stardust
> > > > > caught, a portion of the rainbow I have clutched
> > > > > --Thoreau
> > > > > http://www.magnanti.com
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > cdt-l mailing list
> > > > > cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > > > > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > cdt-l mailing list
> > > > cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > > > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > End of cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 34
> > > > *************************************
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > cdt-l mailing list
> > cdt-l at backcountry.net
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> >
> >
> > End of cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 40
> > *************************************
>
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