[cdt-l] cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 44
linda butcher
mountainbliss at alltel.net
Sun Dec 31 21:44:42 CST 2006
Hey Glen,
Thank you for your input on the ice axe subject. As I initially stated -
'in an area where needed, I would use the long ice axe in one hand as a
trekking pole, and a trekking pole in the other hand (unstrapped).' Then if
needed, I'd drop the trekking pole and assume the self-arrest position.
Because my ice axe is long enough, I painted white eyes on the side of the
axe, approx., where I would want to position my head. Might sound silly, but
it works for me.
Did you get your trail name while in Maine? I recall one could pick fiddler
head leafs along the AT in Maine. I also remember it being in cans/bottles
sold in stores.
Gene Butcher - Flat Feet
----- Original Message -----
From: <cdt-l-request at backcountry.net>
To: <cdt-l at backcountry.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 1:34 AM
Subject: cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 44
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re: cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 40 (glen fleag)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 06:43:07 +0000
> From: "glen fleag" <fiddleheadpa at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [cdt-l] cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 40
> To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <BAY121-F320B43610DDBB3FDB4C447D0C50 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> In my mind, you don't need a long ice axe, it's more important to sink
> whichever one you have deep into the snow. When i climbed in Nepal, i
left
> my good ice ax at home and the Sherpas gave me one that was about a foot
> long. It got me to 20,000'. Although it was short, it was ok. It
was
> good for the steep climbs but a long one would've been ok too.
> As far as boxing it up, you just have to get a bunch of cardboard, a roll
of
> tape and an hour of time. Create your own package. Just wrap the ice
ax
> in cardboard and fold it up and tape the sh**t out of it and send it.
> Hope this helps.
>
>
> >From: "linda butcher" <mountainbliss at alltel.net>
> >Reply-To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> >To: <cdt-l at backcountry.net>
> >Subject: Re: [cdt-l] cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 40
> >Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 21:21:42 -0500
> >
> >I don't want to belabor our Esbit story, so here goes for field expedient
> >cooking: Clothes dryer lint with petroleum jelly. The combo smokes, but
> >what the heck, the price is right.
> > If we are about finished with the cooking fuel info, I would like to
> >introduce another topic - The ice axe. My ice axe is 85cm. The size
works
> >for me, since I am 6'4" and I can use it like a trekking pole. However,
> >the
> >problems I have with it are finding a box long enough to mail it home and
> >back if I need it again; it's longer than my back pack; and its weight.
> >Also, it might be too long for steep climbs. Not being familier with the
> >climbs on the CDT, would someone with knowledge of them give me some ice
> >axe
> >requirement advice? Thanks.
> >Gene Butcher - Flat Feet
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <cdt-l-request at backcountry.net>
> >To: <cdt-l at backcountry.net>
> >Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 12:56 AM
> >Subject: cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 40
> >
> >
> > > Send cdt-l mailing list submissions to
> > > cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > >
> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l
> > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > cdt-l-request at backcountry.net
> > >
> > > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > > cdt-l-owner at backcountry.net
> > >
> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > > than "Re: Contents of cdt-l digest..."
> > >
> > >
> > > Today's Topics:
> > >
> > > 1. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Slyatpct at aol.com)
> > > 2. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Ken Powers)
> > > 3. Re: esbits (Anitra Kass)
> > > 4. Esbits (Francis Tapon)
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 1
> > > Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 13:14:13 EST
> > > From: Slyatpct at aol.com
> > > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
> > > To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > > Message-ID: <c3d.c703ff7.32c56375 at aol.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 12/28/2006 12:52:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > > footslogger03 at yahoo.com writes:
> > >
> > > But I too would like to know if there is a way to refill/recylcle the
> >empty
> > > metal cannisters
> > >
> > >
> > > I know a guy who made a male/male valve system using the 1lb Coleman
> >propane
> > > to refill his Primus canisters to save money. He's attach the two
and
> >let
> > > liquid/gas flow down into the Primus canister. It worked well until
one
> > > blew-up in his wife's pack whike she was hiking on a hot, sunny day.
> >He
> >attributed
> > > the 'explosion" to over filling. Fortunately, she wasn't injured,
but
> >if
> > > I'm not mistaken her pack was damaged.
> > >
> > > It seems taking a couple partially full canisters on a weekend trip
> >would
> >be
> > > safest.
> > >
> > > Sly
> > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > URL:
>
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> >ment-0001.html
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 2
> > > Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 10:43:45 -0800
> > > From: "Ken Powers" <kdpo at pacbell.net>
> > > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
> > > To: <cdt-l at backcountry.net>
> > > Message-ID: <025501c72ab0$1bced920$6401a8c0 at GottaWalk>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > >
> > > We use the partials for weekend trips. Yeh, we carry a couple on the
> >short
> >hikes. Or remodel your kitchen. ;) Refilling them yourself sounds
dangerous
> >to me.
> > >
> > > I hate having to put my warm hands on a canister on an icy morning. I
> >have
> >made it a habit to sleep with my canister in cold weather. I think the
> >problem is the cold, not the altitude.
> > >
> > > We rationalize that for long hikes we are using so few cans that
adding
> >a
> >canister or 2 every week to the garbage isn't too bad. We have heard that
> >we
> >can take the emptys to REI Berkeley for recycling. But we have never
> >checked
> >up on that. It may just be a rumor.
> > >
> > > Ken
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Slyatpct at aol.com
> > > To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 10:14 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 12/28/2006 12:52:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> >footslogger03 at yahoo.com writes:
> > > But I too would like to know if there is a way to refill/recylcle
> >the
> >empty metal cannisters
> > > I know a guy who made a male/male valve system using the 1lb Coleman
> >propane to refill his Primus canisters to save money. He's attach the
two
> >and let liquid/gas flow down into the Primus canister. It worked well
until
> >one blew-up in his wife's pack whike she was hiking on a hot, sunny day.
> >He
> >attributed the 'explosion" to over filling. Fortunately, she wasn't
> >injured, but if I'm not mistaken her pack was damaged.
> > >
> > > It seems taking a couple partially full canisters on a weekend trip
> >would be safest.
> > >
> > > Sly
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >----
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > cdt-l mailing list
> > > cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l
> > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> >ment-0001.html
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 3
> > > Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 19:55:01 -0800 (PST)
> > > From: Anitra Kass <at_anitra at yahoo.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] esbits
> > > To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > > Message-ID: <649185.56889.qm at web34314.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > >
> > > I know I am late on joining in on this one but I use the bottom
portion
> >(2
> >inches maybe) of a coke can with holes punched around so that air can get
> >to
> >the fire...it's worked well so far and it's super light and free since I
> >drink coke incessantly.
> > > NITRO
> > >
> > > Karen Somers <kborski at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Linda,
> > >
> > > I've found the best esbit stoves can be purchased at
> > > BackpackingLight.com. They are the Esbit folding wing
> > > stoves, one is steel (1.3 oz) and the other is
> > > titanium (0.5 oz). The steel version only lasts about
> > > 2 months before finally wearing thin on the hinges and
> > > breaking. But for $3 each, who's going to complain?
> > > The titanium version is $20, but should not break (I
> > > haven't used that one yet).
> > >
> > > I also have a friend who thru-hiked the CDT just
> > > cooking on the ground either holding his pot over the
> > > esbit or using rocks. I've tried this and can't stand
> > > it, but I think the little folding stoves are genious.
> > > The hiking pole idea is good, too.
> > >
> > > Steel version:
> > >
>
>http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/esbit_folding_wing
_
> >stove.html
> > >
> > > Titanium version:
> > >
>
>http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/titanium-esbit-win
g
> >-stove.html
> > >
> > > Nocona
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > cdt-l mailing list
> > > cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> >ment-0001.html
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 4
> > > Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 22:04:10 -0800
> > > From: "Francis Tapon" <ft at francistapon.com>
> > > Subject: [cdt-l] Esbits
> > > To: <cdt-l at backcountry.net>
> > > Message-ID:
> > > <001a01c72b0f$4328f550$660fa8c0 at redmond.corp.microsoft.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > >
> > > Flat Feet has several outstanding ideas there. I especially like the
> >idea
> >of
> > > pre-soaking to save fuel. An extremist might just soak and eat food
cold
> >to
> > > leave behind all the cooking stuff! (Has anyone tried this?)
> > >
> > > Here's an idea to let you leave the Esbit stove behind. Instead of
> >finding
> > > flat rocks, use your tarp/tent stakes!
> > >
> > > 1) Shove at least 3 stakes into the dirt to create an even platform to
> >place
> > > the pot.
> > >
> > > 2) Place the Esbit tablet on a small piece of aluminum foil under the
> >pot.
> > >
> > > 3) Light Esbit and voila!
> > >
> > > A variation is instead of using a tiny piece of foil, use a large
piece
> >of
> > > aluminum foil to create a windscreen. Mold the foil around the stakes.
> > >
> > > If the dirt is so hard that the stakes don't go in too deep (but they
do
> >go
> > > in), then slip a rock under the foil to bring the Esbit closer to the
> >pot.
> > >
> > > I agree that Esbits have a slightly unpleasant smell. I always keep
them
> >in
> > > a ziplock on an outside pouch of my pack so the smell doesn't permeate
> >the
> > > pot or food.
> > >
> > > One more thing: instead of throwing dirt on the Esbit to blow it out,
> >just
> > > blow it out with your breath. That way when you re-light it the Esbit
> >will
> > > burn as efficiently as possible. (OK, I realize a little dirt probably
> >won't
> > > make any difference in how it burns, but blowing it out seems a more
> >elegant
> > > and tidy solution, and we know thru-hikers are all about tidiness!)
:-)
> > >
> > > Happy New Year!
> > >
> > > Francis Tapon
> > > Check out this 2 minute video:
> > >
>
>http://www.mydream.tv/dream_category.php?dc=66f041e16a60928b05a7e228a89c379
9
> > >
> > > Learn about my book, Hike Your Own Hike: 7 Life Lessons from
Backpacking
> > > Across America, at: http://www.FrancisTapon.com/book
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: linda butcher [mailto:mountainbliss at alltel.net]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 8:25 PM
> > > > To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > > > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 34
> > > >
> > > > Nocona,
> > > > Esbit was my choice on the PCT and will also be what I will use on
the
> >CDT
> > > > this year. To make this choice even lighter, I am thinking about
> >making
> >a
> > > > "cat can Esbit stove," similar to the alcohol cat can stove. Once
can
> > > > eliminate the stove and just find some flat rocks to surround the
> >Esbit
> > > > tablets that are high enough to support a pot. I used the rocks
plan
> >at
> > > > first, but some times I spent too much time finding the right size
> >rocks,
> > > > so
> > > > I broke down and bought the Esbit stove:) I used less than one
esbit
> > > > tablet
> > > > per meal. I often soaked the food before hand in an empty peanut
> >butter
> > > > jar
> > > > while still on the trail. To save fuel, I put the soaked noodle in
the
> >pot
> > > > and removed the pot from the stove once it started boiling hard (if
I
> > > > trusted the water to start with, if not let boil for a minute
longer),
> > > > then
> > > > added the cheese, etc., covered the pot, and set it aside to thicken
> >and
> > > > cool down. Often the tablet did not totally burn up, so I would
throw
> > > > some
> > > > dirt on it, and when cool, saved it. After awhile I had enough
little
> > > > tablet pieces to cook another meal. I carried enough Esbit tablets
to
> > > > last
> > > > in between mail drops. The stove, tin foil wind shield, a weeks
> >supply
> >of
> > > > tablets, spoon, cleaning rag and scrubbie, soap and a small 1/2 oz
> > > > container
> > > > of denatured alcohol (before lighting, just a drop or two on the
> >tablet
> >in
> > > > windy conditions) all fit into my small titanium pot. The only
thing
> >I
> > > > did
> > > > not like about the Esbit tablets is the smell that sometimes chases
> >you
> > > > around the pot, and it does take a little longer to boil water than
> >other
> > > > stove choices. Oh, one other idea to lighten ones load: On the PCT,
I
> > > > hiked
> > > > with two Canadians for a few days, one used his trekking poles for
his
> > > > stove. Here's how he did it: He covered the bottom section of his
> >poles
> > > > with tin foil, laid them side by side on the ground far enough apart
> >to
> > > > support his pot, and lit up an Esbit tablet under the pot. It
worked
> >for
> > > > him, his trail name was "Papa Grande."
> > > > Okay, I get long winded sometimes when reminiscencing -hope these
> >ideas
> > > > might help someone.
> > > > Flat Feet, AT-90, PCT-00, "CDT-07"
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: <cdt-l-request at backcountry.net>
> > > > To: <cdt-l at backcountry.net>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 8:47 PM
> > > > Subject: cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 34
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Send cdt-l mailing list submissions to
> > > > > cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > > > >
> > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > > > > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l
> > > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > > > > cdt-l-request at backcountry.net
> > > > >
> > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > > > > cdt-l-owner at backcountry.net
> > > > >
> > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more
specific
> > > > > than "Re: Contents of cdt-l digest..."
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Today's Topics:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. Does using GPS diminish the experience? (Paul Magnanti)
> > > > > 2. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Alistair and Gail Des Moulins)
> > > > > 3. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Remy Levin)
> > > > > 4. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Karen Somers)
> > > > > 5. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Ginny & Jim Owen)
> > > > > 6. Re: Does using GPS diminish the experience? (Chris)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Message: 1
> > > > > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 10:14:31 -0800 (PST)
> > > > > From: Paul Magnanti <pmags at yahoo.com>
> > > > > Subject: [cdt-l] Does using GPS diminish the experience?
> > > > > To: CDT MailingList <cdt-l at backcountry.net>
> > > > > Message-ID: <303684.40713.qm at web31806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> > > > >
> > > > > This type of discussion ends up being what I call
> > > > > "Thru-hiker angels on the head of a pin". Something
> > > > > that is only discussed on hiking forums and is
> > > > > theoretical. :)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In reality, whether you take a GPS or don't take a GPS
> > > > > is not going to diminish your experience. Take one,
> > > > > don't take one.
> > > > >
> > > > > The kind of experience you have on the the trail is
> > > > > what you put into the hike. The sunsets are still
> > > > > awesome, the remoteness of the trail is still
> > > > > wonderful, the journey is still rewarding.
> > > > >
> > > > > Just enjoy the hike one way or another. I did not take
> > > > > a GPS, friends of mine did. All of us had one hell of
> > > > > an experience.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ************************************************************
> > > > > The true harvest of my life is intangible.... a little stardust
> > > > > caught, a portion of the rainbow I have clutched
> > > > > --Thoreau
> > > > > http://www.magnanti.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Message: 2
> > > > > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 13:27:58 -0700
> > > > > From: "Alistair and Gail Des Moulins" <aandg at telusplanet.net>
> > > > > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
> > > > > To: <cdt-l at backcountry.net>, <kborski at yahoo.com>
> > > > > Message-ID: <003801c7292c$55e21c10$528dba89 at your4f1261a8e5>
> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> > > > > reply-type=original
> > > > >
> > > > > Gail and I used a Fat Pika alcohol stove during our 5 months on
the
> >CDT
> > > > this
> > > > > year. See http://pbase.com/image/72011334/original for a photo of
> >our
> > > > stove
> > > > > and stand in Wyoming's Great Basin.
> > > > > We used an MSR XGK white gas stove on our 6 month thru hike of the
> >PCT
> > > > in
> > > > > 2003.
> > > > > On the CDT on most days we had hot cereal and a hot drink for
> >breakfast
> > > > and
> > > > > cooked a meal and a hot drink for supper. We used between 5 and 6
> >ounces
> > > > of
> > > > > fuel per day depending on water temperature and other factors.
Each
> >meal
> > > > and
> > > > > drink usually was 4 + cups of water. The stove would easily handle
> > > > boiling
> > > > 6
> > > > > cups of water and on a couple of nights we used it to melt snow
but
> >that
> > > > > requires almost double the fuel (and that's, of course, true for
any
> > > > stove).
> > > > > On the PCT with the MSR we could get 10 to 11 days cooking from a
> >litre
> > > > (35
> > > > > oz) of white gas.
> > > > > On the CDT we did two 12 day sections without resupply (East
Glacier
> >to
> > > > > Lincoln, and Dubois to Atlantic City, yes we are not fast hikers
and
> >we
> > > > > wanted to have spare days in the Winds). On these 2 sections we
> >carried
> > > > six
> > > > > 12 oz bottles of HEET.
> > > > > For these 12 day loads the weight of six bottles of HEET and the
Fat
> > > > Pika
> > > > > stove exceeded the weight of the MSR stove, screen + stove parts +
> >12
> > > > days
> > > > > of white gas that we would have carried had we had the MSR. After
3
> >or
> >4
> > > > > days the weight of systems would have been about the same and
after
> >that
> > > > the
> > > > > Alcohol system total weight is less than the corresponding MSR
> >system
> > > > > weight.
> > > > > Prior to our CDT trip I did tests of fuel usage and boil times
using
> >the
> > > > Fat
> > > > > Pika and the MSR. The Fat Pika used nearly double the volume of
fuel
> > > > > compared to the MSR. The boil times of the Fat Pika were faster
than
> >the
> > > > > MSR. Also water boiled faster using a larger diameter pot - so if
> >you
> > > > take
> > > > > a 2 litre capacity pot, an 8" diameter pot will require less fuel
> >than
> >a
> > > > 7"
> > > > > diameter one.
> > > > > I realised we'd be carrying a larger total weight of stove and
fuel
> >on
> >a
> > > > few
> > > > > days on the trip if we used the Fat Pika instead of the MSR but
> > > > generally
> > > > > we'd be carrying less weight than the MSR.
> > > > > On balance, although our MSR had served us very well on the PCT, I
> > > > decided
> > > > > to take the Fat Pika on the CDT because we'd not even have to
worry
> > > > about
> > > > > blocked jets, failing pump washers and leaking 'O' rings.
> > > > > On the CDT we found HEET was available at almost all town stops,
> >white
> > > > gas
> > > > > was not so available and was usually in gallon containers when we
> >saw
> > > it.
> > > > > On the PCT with the MSR, we'd usually find a 'hiker can' of white
> >gas
> >in
> > > > > towns. If not we'd buy a gallon and leave the rest for following
> >hikers.
> > > > > With only about 20 hikers going each way a year on the CDT this
> >system
> > > > would
> > > > > not work so well and I think you'd end up buying a lot more
gallons
> >of
> > > > white
> > > > > gas.
> > > > >
> > > > > For more details on the Fat Pika stove see
> > > > > http://users.sisqtel.net/losthiker/pikastove/
> > > > >
> > > > > Alistair
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Karen Somers" <kborski at yahoo.com>
> > > > > To: <cdt-l at backcountry.net>
> > > > > Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 8:48 PM
> > > > > Subject: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Ginny wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "We never had to carry more than one
> > > > > > full 20 oz Pepsi bottle for the two of us."
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This brings up a topic that I am have a question
> > > > > > about......I'm looking for a two-person alcohol stove.
> > > > > > My past attempts to find an alcohol stove that will
> > > > > > cook a pot of food for two hikers were unsuccessful.
> > > > > > We've tried several different al. stove designs, but
> > > > > > it takes too much fuel to get a one liter plus pot of
> > > > > > water boiling. So, my husband and I have always used
> > > > > > white gas when we are cooking for two. It just proves
> > > > > > more economical all the way around. However, we heard
> > > > > > that there was a new al. stove built for two (rumor at
> > > > > > the ADZ party). Ginny and others, what alcohol stove
> > > > > > design do you use for two people?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Nocona
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Message: 3
> > > > > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 13:06:04 -0800 (PST)
> > > > > From: Remy Levin <fellowship_of_yatzek at yahoo.com>
> > > > > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
> > > > > To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > > > > Message-ID: <20061226210604.31571.qmail at web52402.mail.yahoo.com>
> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > > > >
> > > > > We used the same alcohol stove we use on the PCT on the CDT this
> >summer.
> > > > With over 7000 miles on it (it was purchased in hot springs, NC)
It's
> >beat
> > > > up , but still works great. It has a capacity to hold about 2
ounces
> >of
> > > > Heet at a time, which was definitely enough for cooking 2+,
sometimes
> > > > three
> > > > liptons at a time.
> > > > > A few tips that save on gas and cook food faster: put the noodles
in
> >the
> > > > water a couple min. before putting the pot on the fire. Always use a
> > > > windscreen and avoid windy spots as much as possible. Let the
noodles
> >sit
> > > > for a few min. after the stove is out- they don't have to cook
> >completely
> > > > that way, as they will soften by soaking up water. plus, they'll be
> >nice
> > > > and
> > > > al dente ;)
> > > > > As to fuel, we found that we seldom needed more than 20 oz. at a
> > > stretch.
> > > > On sections where fuel was a problem, or water was a problem we ate
> >cold,
> > > > which was a very refreshing change in diet.
> > > > > Cheers! Remy.
> > > > >
> > > > > Alistair and Gail Des Moulins <aandg at telusplanet.net> wrote: Gail
> >and
> >I
> > > > used a Fat Pika alcohol stove during our 5 months on the CDT this
> > > > > year. See http://pbase.com/image/72011334/original for a photo of
> >our
> > > > stove
> > > > > and stand in Wyoming's Great Basin.
> > > > > We used an MSR XGK white gas stove on our 6 month thru hike of the
> >PCT
> > > > in
> > > > > 2003.
> > > > > On the CDT on most days we had hot cereal and a hot drink for
> >breakfast
> > > > and
> > > > > cooked a meal and a hot drink for supper. We used between 5 and 6
> >ounces
> > > > of
> > > > > fuel per day depending on water temperature and other factors.
Each
> >meal
> > > > and
> > > > > drink usually was 4 + cups of water. The stove would easily handle
> > > > boiling
> > > > 6
> > > > > cups of water and on a couple of nights we used it to melt snow
but
> >that
> > > > > requires almost double the fuel (and that's, of course, true for
any
> > > > stove).
> > > > > On the PCT with the MSR we could get 10 to 11 days cooking from a
> >litre
> > > > (35
> > > > > oz) of white gas.
> > > > > On the CDT we did two 12 day sections without resupply (East
Glacier
> >to
> > > > > Lincoln, and Dubois to Atlantic City, yes we are not fast hikers
and
> >we
> > > > > wanted to have spare days in the Winds). On these 2 sections we
> >carried
> > > > six
> > > > > 12 oz bottles of HEET.
> > > > > For these 12 day loads the weight of six bottles of HEET and the
Fat
> > > > Pika
> > > > > stove exceeded the weight of the MSR stove, screen + stove parts +
> >12
> > > > days
> > > > > of white gas that we would have carried had we had the MSR. After
3
> >or
> >4
> > > > > days the weight of systems would have been about the same and
after
> >that
> > > > the
> > > > > Alcohol system total weight is less than the corresponding MSR
> >system
> > > > > weight.
> > > > > Prior to our CDT trip I did tests of fuel usage and boil times
using
> >the
> > > > Fat
> > > > > Pika and the MSR. The Fat Pika used nearly double the volume of
fuel
> > > > > compared to the MSR. The boil times of the Fat Pika were faster
than
> >the
> > > > > MSR. Also water boiled faster using a larger diameter pot - so if
> >you
> > > > take
> > > > > a 2 litre capacity pot, an 8" diameter pot will require less fuel
> >than
> >a
> > > > 7"
> > > > > diameter one.
> > > > > I realised we'd be carrying a larger total weight of stove and
fuel
> >on
> >a
> > > > few
> > > > > days on the trip if we used the Fat Pika instead of the MSR but
> > > > generally
> > > > > we'd be carrying less weight than the MSR.
> > > > > On balance, although our MSR had served us very well on the PCT, I
> > > > decided
> > > > > to take the Fat Pika on the CDT because we'd not even have to
worry
> > > > about
> > > > > blocked jets, failing pump washers and leaking 'O' rings.
> > > > > On the CDT we found HEET was available at almost all town stops,
> >white
> > > > gas
> > > > > was not so available and was usually in gallon containers when we
> >saw
> > > it.
> > > > > On the PCT with the MSR, we'd usually find a 'hiker can' of white
> >gas
> >in
> > > > > towns. If not we'd buy a gallon and leave the rest for following
> >hikers.
> > > > > With only about 20 hikers going each way a year on the CDT this
> >system
> > > > would
> > > > > not work so well and I think you'd end up buying a lot more
gallons
> >of
> > > > white
> > > > > gas.
> > > > >
> > > > > For more details on the Fat Pika stove see
> > > > > http://users.sisqtel.net/losthiker/pikastove/
> > > > >
> > > > > Alistair
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Karen Somers"
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 8:48 PM
> > > > > Subject: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Ginny wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "We never had to carry more than one
> > > > > > full 20 oz Pepsi bottle for the two of us."
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This brings up a topic that I am have a question
> > > > > > about......I'm looking for a two-person alcohol stove.
> > > > > > My past attempts to find an alcohol stove that will
> > > > > > cook a pot of food for two hikers were unsuccessful.
> > > > > > We've tried several different al. stove designs, but
> > > > > > it takes too much fuel to get a one liter plus pot of
> > > > > > water boiling. So, my husband and I have always used
> > > > > > white gas when we are cooking for two. It just proves
> > > > > > more economical all the way around. However, we heard
> > > > > > that there was a new al. stove built for two (rumor at
> > > > > > the ADZ party). Ginny and others, what alcohol stove
> > > > > > design do you use for two people?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Nocona
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > cdt-l mailing list
> > > > > cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > > > > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > > > -------------- next part --------------
> > > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > > > > URL:
> > > > http://mailman.hack.net/pipermail/cdt-
> > > > l/attachments/20061226/97f6b1b9/attach
> > > > ment-0001.html
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Message: 4
> > > > > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 14:14:47 -0800 (PST)
> > > > > From: Karen Somers <kborski at yahoo.com>
> > > > > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
> > > > > To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > > > > Cc: Andy Somers <andy_somers at yahoo.com>
> > > > > Message-ID: <418120.39514.qm at web56906.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> > > > >
> > > > > After getting more great information from Alistair and
> > > > > Ginny, I have been thinking about stove options FOR
> > > > > TWO all day. Here is some weight data I thought I'd
> > > > > share for any interested (this is helping me decide
> > > > > the best option). I am using the amount of fuel
> > > > > needed for the longest stretches, which Alistair
> > > > > reported to be 12 days.
> > > > >
> > > > > Specific gravity for calculating fuel weights:
> > > > > HEET s.g. is 0.787
> > > > > white gas s.g. is 0.69
> > > > > car gas s.g. is 0.739
> > > > > denatured alcohol s.g. is 0.809
> > > > >
> > > > > Esbits weigh 0.5 oz each
> > > > >
> > > > > ESBIT OPTION
> > > > > We each must carry a small cookpot and cook our
> > > > > dinners separately. (It's not feasible to cook a
> > > > > two-person dinner with one Esbit tab, or even two
> > > > > tabs, because the pot has too large a surface area).
> > > > >
> > > > > 2, 0.9 L titanium pots: 2 x 4.9 oz = 9.8 oz
> > > > > 12 days of Esbits for two (24 tabs): 0.5 oz x 24 = 12
> > > > > oz
> > > > > Two Esbit stoves: 2 x 0.5 oz = 1.0 oz
> > > > > Extra wind screen: 0.3 oz
> > > > >
> > > > > Total: 23.1 oz (1.4 lbs)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ALCOHOL STOVE OPTION
> > > > > This assumes one well-functioning stove that can
> > > > > really cook for two like the one Alistair described.
> > > > >
> > > > > 1, 2-L titanium pot: 8 oz
> > > > > 6, 12-oz bottles HEET: 56.6 oz fuel + 9 oz of bottle
> > > > > wt: 65.6
> > > > > (assumes 1.5 oz weight of bottle; you could reduce
> > > > > this by 2 oz using Gatorade bottles)
> > > > > Stove: 1 oz (assumed)
> > > > >
> > > > > Total: 74.6 oz (4.7 lbs)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > WHITE GAS OPTION
> > > > > Using the MSR Whisperlite Intl'
> > > > >
> > > > > 1, 2-L titanium pot: 8 oz
> > > > > 22 oz fuel bottle full: 15.1 oz gas + 15 oz bottle =
> > > > > 30.1
> > > > > stove: 10.8 oz
> > > > >
> > > > > Total: 48.9 oz (3.1 lbs)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It looks like Esbit wins hands down in the weight
> > > > > contest. I don't mean to get into a pros and cons
> > > > > debate about these different types of cooking systems,
> > > > > because each certainly has them, but I was quite
> > > > > shocked that 12 days of Esbit use is 1.5 lbs lighter
> > > > > than white gas and 3.3 lbs lighter than HEET. We can
> > > > > carry 30 days of fuel at a time for still less than 12
> > > > > days of white gas or alcohol.
> > > > >
> > > > > Despite the expense, I think we'll opt for Esbits.
> > > > >
> > > > > Nocona
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > __________________________________________________
> > > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Message: 5
> > > > > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 17:34:56 -0500
> > > > > From: "Ginny & Jim Owen" <spiritbear2k at hotmail.com>
> > > > > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
> > > > > To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > > > > Message-ID: <BAY101-F27795C62815A78B6E01A2287C10 at phx.gbl>
> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not sure where you're getting your weight numbers for the
> >alcohol.
> > > > We
> > > > > boiled water for coffee in the morning (3/4 oz) and cooked dinner
in
> >the
> > > > > evening (1.5 to 2 oz). Most stretches were 5-6 days between
> >resupplies
> > > > -
> > > > > one bottle of heet. A few were 8 days - so we used a 20 oz
bottle.
> > > > That
> > > > > really was enough. We never ran out.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ginny
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----------------------------------------------------------
> > > > > http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: Karen Somers <kborski at yahoo.com>
> > > > > >Reply-To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > > > > >To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > > > > >CC: Andy Somers <andy_somers at yahoo.com>
> > > > > >Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two
> > > > > >Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 14:14:47 -0800 (PST)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >After getting more great information from Alistair and
> > > > > >Ginny, I have been thinking about stove options FOR
> > > > > >TWO all day. Here is some weight data I thought I'd
> > > > > >share for any interested (this is helping me decide
> > > > > >the best option). I am using the amount of fuel
> > > > > >needed for the longest stretches, which Alistair
> > > > > >reported to be 12 days.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Specific gravity for calculating fuel weights:
> > > > > >HEET s.g. is 0.787
> > > > > >white gas s.g. is 0.69
> > > > > >car gas s.g. is 0.739
> > > > > >denatured alcohol s.g. is 0.809
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Esbits weigh 0.5 oz each
> > > > > >
> > > > > >ESBIT OPTION
> > > > > >We each must carry a small cookpot and cook our
> > > > > >dinners separately. (It's not feasible to cook a
> > > > > >two-person dinner with one Esbit tab, or even two
> > > > > >tabs, because the pot has too large a surface area).
> > > > > >
> > > > > >2, 0.9 L titanium pots: 2 x 4.9 oz = 9.8 oz
> > > > > >12 days of Esbits for two (24 tabs): 0.5 oz x 24 = 12
> > > > > >oz
> > > > > >Two Esbit stoves: 2 x 0.5 oz = 1.0 oz
> > > > > >Extra wind screen: 0.3 oz
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Total: 23.1 oz (1.4 lbs)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >ALCOHOL STOVE OPTION
> > > > > >This assumes one well-functioning stove that can
> > > > > >really cook for two like the one Alistair described.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >1, 2-L titanium pot: 8 oz
> > > > > >6, 12-oz bottles HEET: 56.6 oz fuel + 9 oz of bottle
> > > > > >wt: 65.6
> > > > > >(assumes 1.5 oz weight of bottle; you could reduce
> > > > > >this by 2 oz using Gatorade bottles)
> > > > > >Stove: 1 oz (assumed)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Total: 74.6 oz (4.7 lbs)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >WHITE GAS OPTION
> > > > > >Using the MSR Whisperlite Intl'
> > > > > >
> > > > > >1, 2-L titanium pot: 8 oz
> > > > > >22 oz fuel bottle full: 15.1 oz gas + 15 oz bottle =
> > > > > >30.1
> > > > > >stove: 10.8 oz
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Total: 48.9 oz (3.1 lbs)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >It looks like Esbit wins hands down in the weight
> > > > > >contest. I don't mean to get into a pros and cons
> > > > > >debate about these different types of cooking systems,
> > > > > >because each certainly has them, but I was quite
> > > > > >shocked that 12 days of Esbit use is 1.5 lbs lighter
> > > > > >than white gas and 3.3 lbs lighter than HEET. We can
> > > > > >carry 30 days of fuel at a time for still less than 12
> > > > > >days of white gas or alcohol.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Despite the expense, I think we'll opt for Esbits.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Nocona
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >__________________________________________________
> > > > > >Do You Yahoo!?
> > > > > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > > > >http://mail.yahoo.com
> > > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > > >cdt-l mailing list
> > > > > >cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > > > > >http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l
> > > > >
> > > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all the
> > > scoop.
> > > > > http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Message: 6
> > > > > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 17:56:41 -0800 (PST)
> > > > > From: Chris <spur at mac.com>
> > > > > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] Does using GPS diminish the experience?
> > > > > To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > > > > Message-ID: <28145358.1167184601944.JavaMail.root at m16>
> > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> > > > >
> > > > > I for one am not ashamed to say that I would probably be dead by
> > > > > now had I not had the help of a GPS on my long CDT hikes.
> > > > >
> > > > > But YMMV...
> > > > >
> > > > > Spur ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.artofthetrail.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue Dec 26 10:14:31 PST 2006, Paul Magnanti <pmags at yahoo.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > This type of discussion ends up being what I call
> > > > > > "Thru-hiker angels on the head of a pin". Something
> > > > > > that is only discussed on hiking forums and is
> > > > > > theoretical. :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In reality, whether you take a GPS or don't take a GPS
> > > > > > is not going to diminish your experience. Take one,
> > > > > > don't take one. The kind of experience you have on the the trail
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > what you put into the hike. The sunsets are still
> > > > > > awesome, the remoteness of the trail is still
> > > > > > wonderful, the journey is still rewarding.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just enjoy the hike one way or another. I did not take
> > > > > > a GPS, friends of mine did. All of us had one hell of
> > > > > > an experience.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ************************************************************
> > > > > > The true harvest of my life is intangible.... a little stardust
> > > > > > caught, a portion of the rainbow I have clutched
> > > > > > --Thoreau
> > > > > > http://www.magnanti.com
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > cdt-l mailing list
> > > > > > cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > > > > > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > cdt-l mailing list
> > > > > cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > > > > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > End of cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 34
> > > > > *************************************
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > cdt-l at backcountry.net
> > > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l
> > >
> > >
> > > End of cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 40
> > > *************************************
> >
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>
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>
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>
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