[Cdt-l] Wolverine's databook

Doug Graybeal doug at graybealarchitects.com
Sun Mar 16 09:44:39 CDT 2008


Caryl,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts with the form.  As a couple who plan to hike the CDT this summer north bound we have completed our maps work using Jonathans maps supplemented with the Colorado TI maps, Delorme maps and a few other miscellaneous maps to help find our way and bailout points, if needed.  We are also using Jim Wolf's Guide books and planning to start our hike in Columbus around April 21st. In preparing for the hike one of the things we did was read Jim's guidebooks with Jonathan's maps and marked Jim's mileage, road crossings, recommended camping spots and water source on Jonathan's maps, plus marked add all the new information from Jim's newsletters, CT trail updates, etc.  By doing so we created a good visual tool to help plan the number of days between stops based on water,  hiking over passes early in the day etc. instead of just trying to achieve a certain number of miles per day.  I would recommend other do this.  It was very time consuming, but does make you more familiar with the trail before you are out there and what to expect.  We were also able to see where vertical climbing may slow us down.  We hope this exercise will help us with the transposing of the south bound guidebooks to north bound in the field.

One of the couples featured in Lynne Whelden's VCR "How to Hike the Continental Divide Trail" said they typed out all the guide book directions in reverse for a north bound hike.  They did spent three years planning their trip.

I agree with Jim's concerns about your information being release and would hope no hiker out there would not be smart enough to purchase Jim's guide book, but you never know. Jim has been the backbone of the CDTS and his endless work is immeasurable to the success of the CDT. I also agree with you the only way to share your information would be with or better as an integral part of his guidebooks.

We look forward to meeting some of you on the trail,

Gray wolves
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Caryl Bergeron 
  To: cdt-l at backcountry.net 
  Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 3:53 PM
  Subject: [Cdt-l] Wolverine's databook


  Yes we have prepared a databook for the southern half of the CDT from Columbus to Rawlins via Jim Wolf's route.  It meshes information not only from the guidebooks but from Johnathan's maps and Yogi's town guide in my attempt to get a summary that shows how the various pieces of information fit together.  It is written for both NOBOs and SOBOs with a bit of favoring toward the NOBO since we went that way and since NOBOs are a bit handicapped by the SOBO favor of the guidebooks.  In addition, we added a lot of odds and ends of information during our 2007 hike including water locations and the PCT style "water alerts".  

  It's not a standalone document.  You would need to have the guidebooks, maps, and townguide to go with it.  Right now we are hot and heavy into getting the northern half done, or at least a preliminary version.  We'll be hiking the northern half this summer and will add observations in the fall.

  At present I cannot release it to anybody.  I have received permissioin to use data from both Yogi and Johnathan, but so far not from Jim Wolf.  Jim is concerned about letting it out into the public domain.  His very valid reason is that if people have a databook then they may not purchase the guidebooks.  Without funds from the guidebooks the CDTS could not survive and those very valuable guidebooks could not be prepared, published, and updated.  It's a bit of a catch 22, the databook cannot be prepared without the guidebook and the guidebooks may suffer if there is a databook.  Yogi also made a very valid point that people do occasioually hike the PCT with just a databook and often get into big trouble for not having any other information.  We met someone in just such a situation, so her concerns are quite real.  Since the CDT is an altogether tougher animal, the importance of not just having a databook is even more pronounced.

  I have offered to gift the databook to the CDTS for them to publish and sell.  But, Jim is still, very understandably, concerned about how they could be sold without impacting the sales of the guidebooks and I am concerned about how to ensure no one attempts to hike with just a databook.  Yet I would very much like to see this databook made available and see that the CDTS get some additional funds from the sale of the databook.  My suggestion so far is that the databook be offered as a separate volume for each individual guidebook and only as an inclusive package; i.e. you can buy the guidebook and databook as a package or the guidebook alone but not the databook alone.  My thought is that since the CDTS controls the guidebook sales through the internet this could be written into the web page.  Or, without getting additional sales, the CDTS could just put the databook chapters into the guidebooks as an appendix.  If anyone has any other suggestions as to how both concerns can be addressed I'm sure your ideas would find receptive ears.

  Until Jim has the opportunity to decide how he wants to deal with this databook, I cannot release it.  I know you all may promise to keep it for just personal use, but you know how these things go and I don't want to go against Jim's wishes since his work is so important.  The only thing I can suggest is that the hiking community begs Jim to do something.  Maybe a couple of chocolate chip cookiegrams would help.

  Anyway, write to Jim and let him know you'd sure love to see a databook published.

  Caryl


  ----- Original Message ----
  From: "cdt-l-request at backcountry.net" <cdt-l-request at backcountry.net>
  To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
  Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 10:00:02 AM
  Subject: Cdt-l Digest, Vol 6, Issue 8

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  Today's Topics:

    1. Wolverine's Databook (Caryl Bergeron)
    2. Re: Wolverine's Databook (Adam Bradley)
    3. Re: Wolverine's Databook (Bob Bankhead)


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------

  Message: 1
  Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 17:51:37 -0700 (PDT)
  From: Caryl Bergeron <caryl_bergeron at yahoo.com>
  Subject: [Cdt-l] Wolverine's Databook
  To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
  Message-ID: <406353.75956.qm at web52103.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

  Wolverine,

  If you are planning to distribute a databook to the hiking community based upon the CDTS guidebooks you'd better ask permission from Jim Wolf first.  It is copyrighted material.  We prepared a similar databook last summer that has the same information you're planning to include plus our own 2007 observations for both northbound and southbound hikers.  Jim has, understandably, been very reluctant to allow us to distribute it.  We are still talking to him about having him include it in his future guidebooks as a supplement, appendix, or some other resource.

  Caryl


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  Message: 2
  Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 19:51:56 -0700 (PDT)
  From: Adam Bradley <tooloouk79852 at yahoo.com>
  Subject: Re: [Cdt-l] Wolverine's Databook
  To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
  Message-ID: <722429.86281.qm at web90402.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

  I tried to send this email when the cdtl seemed to be
  down a while back:


  Any body ever make a homemade data book for the CDT
  they are willing to share.  For example water data,
  town data, landmark...  Kind of in the PCT or AT data
  book fashion.  Willing to share?

  Just curious if one existed.

  Having read this discussion below I thought I would
  ask and of course could be contacted off list.  I
  would only use the data book for personal use.

  thanks,
  adam
  cdt 08
  --- Caryl Bergeron <caryl_bergeron at yahoo.com> wrote:

  > Wolverine,
  > 
  > If you are planning to distribute a databook to the
  > hiking community based upon the CDTS guidebooks
  > you'd better ask permission from Jim Wolf first.  It
  > is copyrighted material.  We prepared a similar
  > databook last summer that has the same information
  > you're planning to include plus our own 2007
  > observations for both northbound and southbound
  > hikers.  Jim has, understandably, been very
  > reluctant to allow us to distribute it.  We are
  > still talking to him about having him include it in
  > his future guidebooks as a supplement, appendix, or
  > some other resource.
  > 
  > Caryl
  > 
  > 
  >      
  >
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  > Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page. 
  > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs>
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  > Cdt-l mailing list
  > Cdt-l at backcountry.net
  >
  http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l
  > 



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  ------------------------------

  Message: 3
  Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 20:11:45 -0700
  From: "Bob Bankhead" <wandering_bob at comcast.net>
  Subject: Re: [Cdt-l] Wolverine's Databook
  To: <cdt-l at backcountry.net>
  Message-ID: <008501c88581$23474d90$6400a8c0 at BOB>
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

  Yogi has her CDT Handbook available for $30
  see http://pcthandbook.com/ and look for it there

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Adam Bradley 
    To: cdt-l at backcountry.net 
    Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2008 7:51 PM
    Subject: Re: [Cdt-l] Wolverine's Databook


    I tried to send this email when the cdtl seemed to be
    down a while back:


    Any body ever make a homemade data book for the CDT
    they are willing to share.  For example water data,
    town data, landmark...  Kind of in the PCT or AT data
    book fashion.  Willing to share?

    Just curious if one existed.

    Having read this discussion below I thought I would
    ask and of course could be contacted off list.  I
    would only use the data book for personal use.

    thanks,
    adam
    cdt 08
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