[Cdt-l] stove noise Re: Cdt-l Digest, Vol 13, Issue 7

Tom McGinnis sloetoe at yahoo.com
Tue Oct 21 12:53:34 CDT 2008

### OK, I'll play.

> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2008 00:39:05 -0400
> From: Jim Eagleton <eagleton at hotmail.com>

> How fast can your alcohol stove boil 0.5 L of water at 10F???
### The idea is go get food faster, isn't? I'd advise leaving the half-liter boil times to Backpacker. As posted, at about the same speed as the Svea or Optimus, given set-up and monkey time. And that will still be quicker than an MSR, which has added monkey time compared to the already assembled Svea/Optimus. This realization is what shocks many people to go with alcohol stoves.
> Not sure it is a very scientific opinion to represent a
> discontinued Seva using unleaded fuel as comperable to an
> MSR stove using white gas.
### "Discontinued?!?!? Say it ain't so!!!" Hoo boy. First, the post was meant to assist the person with pumped-gas issues (being sooty compared to coleman). This is a symptom of using high-octane fuel instead of the (somewhat counter-intuitive) low-grade, regular. The post is below. If you knew about the origin of the stoves, you'd know that MSR ran into trouble when they designed out the fuels' versatility of the early stoves. The "all-fuels" versions were re-inventions. And properly, it's the Svea 123R and Optimus 8R -- the "R" indicating that the end of the primary fuels actuator was fashioned with a pin to poke through the jet orifice in case of gumming. Whoa. (That's World War II experience talking.) Oh, and if you hit wikipeadia on the Svea, you'll find

### Second, as I remember your post, you drew differences between wood alcohol and methyl alcohol and ethyl alcohol and denatured alcohol and their associated heating values, but unfortunately, got a good piece of things wrong. Wood alcohol IS methyl alcohol, and is what "de-natures" ethyl alcohol. The HEET brand (and any similar) products are either petroleum based or methyl alcohol, despite differences in bottle color, liquid color (added food coloring), PRICE, claimed improvements, etc.. The ONLY thing you want to do is read the back label for poison control. If it gives antidotes for methyl, buy it; if for petroleum, put it back on the shelf and back away. Lastly, there has been a rash of isopropyl-infused crap put on the market in the last few years, coming in bottles of yellow, red, and clear. It is crap to burn, WILL soot your pot, and should only be purchased as a last resort. (Petroleum should never be burned, as it will vaporize in your tent
 and explode.)

### Third, boil-time is related to altitude and temperature, not altitude alone. So if you are up high enough to have boiling water at 180*F, I hope you like your crunchy noodles. (Or, put differently, this is why boxes that advise "High Altitude Cooking Instructions" tell you to go longer, not shorter.)

Gas stoves rule for larger groups, longer boils (like melting sneaux, as someone mentioned), or longish times between resupply (when the carry weight of alcohol/stove averages higher than the carry weight of gasoline/stove). I recall that to be around 14 days for solo, but I can't recall where I got it. Can easily be computed, though.

Hope that helps.
Oh, and, Cozy[s] rule.
(Did I mention that?)

> > > Message: 1> Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2008 11:17:49
> -0700 (PDT)> From: Tom McGinnis
> FWIW, you can really improve the performance of your gas stove by
> using the lowest octane rating available -- 87, 86, or 85,
> 82 if you can swing it. "High-test" is
> specifically formulated to burn slower/cooler than low-test,
> and although your car might really like it, your stove
> really hates it. In my ol' Svea 123R and Optimus 8R, the
> only thing they ever saw was unleaded from the pump.
> (Actually, they saw their share of leaded back on the AT,
> but......) 
> > FWIW II, I pretty much go with alcohol
> now, actually get food faster than with the gas stove in
> cold-ish weather (single digit stuff). Cozy[s] rule.>
> http://www.antigravitygear.com

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