[Cdt-l] Cdt-l Digest, Vol 25, Issue 2

debi vinson debins97214 at yahoo.com
Fri Oct 9 10:32:33 CDT 2009

Wow - what a labor of love - doing all that updating. Thank you.

America-the-hysterical is a profitable place for shrill activists of all persuasions.
Frank Schaeffer

--- On Thu, 10/8/09, cdt-l-request at backcountry.net <cdt-l-request at backcountry.net> wrote:

From: cdt-l-request at backcountry.net <cdt-l-request at backcountry.net>
Subject: Cdt-l Digest, Vol 25, Issue 2
To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
Date: Thursday, October 8, 2009, 10:00 AM

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Today's Topics:

   1. Feedbak for Ley Maps 2009 [NEW MEXICO] (Dylan Carlson)


Message: 1
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 12:05:03 -0700
From: Dylan Carlson <carlsods at gmail.com>
Subject: [Cdt-l] Feedbak for Ley Maps 2009 [NEW MEXICO]
To: cdt-l at backcountry.net, jonathan at phlumf.com
    <6f1629340910071205n2684471bh1b59c1b8b628c19 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

Well, I'm back home after finishing my NB CDT hike.  I found Jon Ley's
maps to be the most useful information published about the CDT.  What
a fantastic resource.  I know that they are only good because hikers
have given feedback in the years past.  In that vein, I have gathered
my recollections from my hike.  I did feedback for New Mexico first,
in the hopes that it might help some SB hikers who are still out

Please keep in mind that the Ley maps were fantastic, and this is only
feedback to help make them better for future hikers.  Jonathan: we owe
you a great debt of gratitude!!

Good luck Southbounders,
Dylan Carlson
Olympia, WA

[NOTE:  unless specified otherwise, you can make the assumption that
these notes are coming from a NB's perspective.]

NM 1        
    [2]    Headed NB, I didn't see any turn-off for the new purple route.  I
just followed the red route and it worked great.
    !    Water in Apache Creek looked gross.  Many cows.

NM 2        
    [3]    This ridgeline route (aka: "Lagunitas reroute" in CDTS guide)
starts off well marked headed NB from red star.  But it is SO riddled
with cow paths and so poorly marked as to be un-usable.  NOT READY FOR

NM 3        
    [2]    I followed this route.  It was decent - recent trail work.
Signed at intersections.  The Southern terminus, at HWY 64, has a
metal gate with a small CDT sign.
    [4]    I followed the gravel road here.  No signs of new trail.
    !    Hopewell lake campground: potable water, picnic tables, privy,
garbage, FEE, picnice area has day use FEE.

NM 4        
    [1]    New trail is good through here.  ATV track fades in the meadows
in the middle of this section.  Just keep going straight and pick it
up on the other side
    [4]    Very good water here in June 2009.  Maybe good for NB hikers in
spring snowmelt, but muddy for SB hikers in fall??
    [8]    Spring has been vandalized - as of June 2009.  Fence has been
cut, spring no longer covered.  Still decent, no longer awesome.

NM 5        
    [4]    Headed NB: new route, currently purple, starts off well-signed.
DO NOT FOLLOW.  The trail is still not built.

NM 6        
    [10]    I took the "road more travelled" to here, from FR139 -> FR677 ->
[10].  It worked well, with no x-country.

NM 7        
    [3]    The shortcut heading West from here would work, but I followed
the East-West fenceline at the USFS boundary (about 1/2 mile south of
dashed line.)  It was very easy, and recommended.  For the East half
of this route, one can even use the gravel road that heads WSW from
near [3]
    !    Water and free coffee at museum near [3]

NM 8        
    [8]    New trailhead here, but?no trail yet in June 2009

NM 9        
    [6]    New trailhead here, but no services.  Also, decent fenced spring.
    [7]    New route headed NE from the highway is constructed.  I followed
it to [8] headed NB, but I do not recall any obvious marking for those
headed SB

NM 10        
    [5]    Maybe all the routes "work," but the middle route is definitely
the best, and should IMHO be the red one.  Lower, currently red, route
goes through hostile private property on the north end.  This has been
reported by numerous hikers.  Middle route is easy, and only requires
about 1/4 mile detour four Circle A.  I took north purple route headed
NB, and got a little confused and lost.  It worked out OK, but in
retrospect, the middle route is definitely the best option.

NM 12        
    [5]    Didn't visit windmill, but I saw it turning with cows nearby.
I'd guess it's functional.

NM 13        
    [1]    Spigot working very well in 2009.  Look for med/small metal tub
surrounded by green bushes, about 100 ft to the south of the trail.
There are abandoned/broken windmills nearby

NM 14a        
    [1]    The red route is well marked with cairns.  BUT, it is very
circuitous.  I would estimate this section as at least 3 miles

NM 15        
    [1]    Fire area had fresh trail work.  Very easy to find my way through.

NM 16        
    [1]    This spring was fantastic in June 2009.  Lots of water, both
tanks overflowing

NM 17        
    [1]    New section of trail south of Antelope Flats is very nice, and
well marked.  Headed SB: Where it connects the road north of [5], it
will cross the road with a LARGE Cairn at either side.  To bypass Mt.
Taylor, continue on new trail across road.  To climb Mt. Taylor, turn
left [SE] on the maintained gravel road and head toward American
    !    The CDTS guidebook mentions a cattle tank in an old, oversized
tire.  The tank is there, but looks like it's been dry for years.

NM 19        
    !    NB: turn off Lobo Canyon Road via red route is not obvious.  After
you pass the prison, there is a small pullout and gate.  Skip this one
and proceed to the next apparent trailhead.
    [4]    NB: very new trail from here.  It's pretty well marked, but vague
in a few places.  Trail is cut and marked with CDT logos.  Goes around
the current Red route to the SE of FR193.  Likely adds about 1-2
miles.  But fairly scenic and non-motorized.  At the northernmost [4],
the new route crosses FR193 and begins its silly re-route around the
North of Mt. Taylor.  This new intersection is well signed.

    !    Picnic area at the center of GPS rose.  Includes covered picnic
tables, privy, and garbage cans.  No water.

    [2]    Spring dry in 2009.  Pueblo still stands.  Looks like it would be
a truly terrible bivy.
    [4]    Road/route appears a bit different on map.  It seemed to me that
the gravel road intersects NM hiway 117 roughly 1/2 miles south of
where it is shown on Ley map.

    [3]    NB: Airstrip is evident.  Road signs to Armijo Canyon as well.

    [4]    Thomas mtn ranch is still hiker friendly.  Still welcome sign.
Still good water.
    [3]    Gene's pump is in great condition.  :-)
    [5]    Pump seemed completely disabled and disfunctional in 2009

    !    Trail Angel left water cache at trail intersection with NM hiway
12.  Ten gallons in Spring 2009
    [1]    I found the windmill spinning fast, but not pumping water.  Tank
was full of nasty algea water. Yuk.

    [4]    Burn area is very confusing.  NO trail markings on ground.  Only
a few blazes in burned trees.  Takes lots of time to navigate.  It's
like this from point 4 all the way south to the next red star.
    [3]    Dismal trickle in spring 2009

    [2]    Excellent flow at Davis Spring in May 2009

    [1]    CDTS guidebook no longer recommends the longer route through the
Negrito fire base.  T-bar canyon is the new guidebook's preferred

    [2]    Well at Snow Lake was working in 2009.  Garbage cans are there
too.  Fee camping charged "per vehicle" :-)

    !    The CDTS guidebook mentions an alternate following the Indian Creek
trail North from (roughly) the GPS rose.  This alternate is bunk, and
should not be attempted, as it crosses private land at the north end
and has no maintenance.

NM36    [1]    This junction is a bit confusing NB too.  NB: trail dumps you
out on gravel road.  Turn right, follow road Due North.

    !    There is excellent new trail with CDT markers along the 3.1 mile
section from Allie Canyon to Black Peak
    !    This 3.1 mile section intersects the gravel road to Signal Peak.
Much easier for a Northbounder on the CDTS route (Deming -> Gila) to
take this gravel road than go unnecessarily south to Black Peak
    !    Despite the bad info in the guidebook, there IS water at Signal
Peak.  Look under the small cistern lid to the SE of the storage shed,
also SE of the tower.  [Garbage can and privy too.]

NM_COL 01        
    !    From where the trail crosses NM hiway 35, you can hitch south a
dozen miles to the small towns of Mimbres and San Lorenzo.  PML$@gS

NM_COL 03        
    [1]    I found decent water in seeps in the creekbed.  May 2009
    [2]    Emory Pass also has garbage cans by the privy
    !    Trail becomes sparse and indistinct between Barrenda Spring and the
star north of it.
    !    Decent piped spring shown on map.  The word "spring" is obscured by
a Ley purple star to the west of the "1.8".  To reach spring, head
downhill west from road/trail intersection about 100 yards. Good
description in CDTS guidebook.

NM_COL 05        
    [1] (South one)    NB: When you reach the point where you must begin
your cross-country route headed NNE from the well near Springs Creek,
aim for the prominent Pyramid-shaped hill.  You may miss China Tank,
but you'll hit the fence halfway through, then a road (lead to china
tank) then the road where you turn left, headed NNW
    [1] (north one)    The old cabin near the windmill has rattle snakes
living in it.  Be careful.

NM_Col 06        
    [1]    I don?t remember finding any water here.
    [2]    Fantastic windmill, great water, and decent camping nearby.
    [5]    Between [5] and [6] the trail should be dashed line.  Cross
country route for about a mile as it follows a fenceline.

NM_Col 07        
    [2]    Spider Windmill was NASTY in may 2009 with poo filled tanks.  No good.

NM_Col 08        
    !    There is a caf?/mini-mart along hwy 143 about a mile or two south
of the purple 9.0  Water and food available.  Hiker friendly.

NM_Col 09        
    [5]    White Dome well is an excellent SOLAR well.  But nasty tank is
accessible even after dark.

NM_Col 10        
    [2]    Map should be dotted line for about one mile south from point 2
until it hits the Greasewood hills.  No trail/road is clear here,
especially problematic headed NB.
    [4]    Borderline Co-op is just North of this point on the highway.
Hiker friendly residence.  Shade and clean water to drink.  Lots of


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