[Cdt-l] Cdt-l Digest, Vol 64, Issue 8

Joseph Ganley jganley at yahoo.com
Fri Jan 4 22:55:32 CST 2013


This is an interesting topic and I have appreciated reading the posts and responses herein.  I think on some level the question isn't about an exterior type that defines the person we 'see' on the trail but more what drives the people who gravitate to enjoying the activity.  It is an eclectic mindset to venture willfully and nobly into the 'woods' and to derive a complete immersion in such an activity that allows it to encompass a component of ones life.  So how do you unlock that interest somewhere inside someone who culturally has not been exposed to the kind of level of understanding, mental, and physical ability to make being out on the trail that kind of enjoyable experience it is in the general 'whitey' population since it seems as such that a general group is more prevalent out there than another.  As Jon has mentioned 'hiking' the tv show is not bound to be the number 1 rated show anytime soon, although some 'reality' shows whom have had wide ranging types of people on them have fared reasonably well.  And as someone who really has only recently, through trial and experience reached the level of outdoor ability to trust myself out there for a longer duration of time, and just found these groups and sites of like minded folk to connect to, part of the solution I would say is getting anyone with marginal interest the exposure to the areas of information and guidance to open themselves up to making the same potential out of learning and trying this activity out on a level that makes them peers with the likes of many of you whom have accomplished so much out on these trails.....
Just my two cents. :)

Joe

On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:02 PM, cdt-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
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>   1. Re: CDT Integration (Jim and_or Ginny Owen)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 23:02:04 -0500
> From: Jim and_or Ginny Owen <spiriteagle99 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Cdt-l] CDT Integration
> To: "jonathan at phlumf.com" <jonathan at phlumf.com>, cdt-l
>    <cdt-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <SNT120-W22B827E36598561FD0A890A0270 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> 
> Jonathon - Thank you, sir.   We argued this on at-l at one time and few, if any, understood the problem.  Or had any real idea about solutions.  I think mostly because few people have any understnding or appreciation of LARGE numbers, statistics or demographics.  And that's not putting them down - it just puts them in with the majority of humanity that has no training in those subjects.  If I'd been smarter, I wouldn't have opened this can of worms cause I don't have any real answers either.  Except one on one interaction with those minorities who are willing.  And they are rare.   I've known blacks  and Chinese and Koreans and Hispanics and Japanese who've either walked or attempted some of the trails, but their numbers are small in relation to the white bread population. I think a lot of us could say the same, but how many have made any real attempt to proselytize the trails, to get others out there?   Anyway, I'm done here.  At least on this topic.   Y'all have a good nigh
> t,Jim
> 
> http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/
> Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 19:00:15 -0800
> From: jonathan at phlumf.com
> To: cdt-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [Cdt-l] CDT Integration
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>    I agree with Jim as to the consequences of this. People protect what
>    they value. And if future generations don't value these long trails
>    & wild places, they won't protect them. 
> 
> 
> 
>    I think it's more than just US minorities... there are large swaths
>    of the world population that are under-represented outside. There
>    are a billion people in India, yet in 10 years, I've never sent CDT
>    maps there. However, If you go to any US national park, you'll see
>    plenty of Indians. I've sent only 1 CDT map CD to a Chinese national
>    (going to school in the US)... again, among a population of a
>    billion. Same goes for South America, Central America, the middle
>    east (except Israel). This is hardly scientific, but interesting all
>    the same.
> 
> 
> 
>    As for the causes... I think it's a lot of little things. If you try
>    to pin it down to one reason, you'll miss the bigger picture. 
> 
> 
> 
>    Part of it is poverty - just getting the disposable money &
>    time. Part of it is cultural - Pretty much what Jim said below. Part
>    of it is urbanization, and being disconnected from Nature. 
> 
> 
> 
>    Then there are things that cut across demographics, like a media
>    culture which prizes virtual reality, and stokes fears about actual
>    reality. Plus, the way many kids are raised - where every bit of
>    free time is scheduled. There's no time to just wander, outside.
>    Where I grew up, there simply was nowhere wild within a day's drive.
>    Very few people back there do anything that involves a tent... and
>    many of them are minorities. 
> 
> 
> 
>    I'm not sure what to do about all this... but I think it requires a
>    number of approaches. Everything from school programs, "hoods in the
>    woods", various outreach initiatives run by both private &
>    public organizations. Having some famous athelete/actor take up the
>    cause would help greatly. If someone could create a compelling TV
>    show centered around the outdoors that didn't involve "eating bugs",
>    that might help (though, I realize difficult - hiking isn't exactly
>    made for TV).  Just getting more trails etched-out of areas near
>    urban centers would help. A lot of these things are happening on
>    some scale, so I am hopeful... yet when I look at the statistics, it
>    doesn't look so great. 
> 
> 
> 
>    -Jonathan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>    On 1/4/2013 5:14 PM, Jim and_or Ginny
>      Owen wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>        Peter - 
> 
>        Your question has far greater implications than most people here
>        realize.  We discussed this 
> 
>        several times on at-l while it was still a serious hiking forum
>        - which means a long time ago.  
> 
> 
> 
>        To make this short - it's a cultural thing.  And it's a survival
>        problem for all the long trails.  
> 
>        Many cultures would never think of going out "into the woods." 
>        In part because that 's where 
> 
>        the "animals" live.  And in part because one lives in a tent,
>        gets "dirty", etc - and in their culture 
> 
>        only the poor live like that.  Even in the States, that culture
>        persists - and propagates.  
> 
> 
> 
>        And propagation is the root of a problem that has been and
>        continues to be ignored.  Right now 
> 
> 
>        the "non-integrated" are minorities.  That is NOT a permanent
>        situation.  When they become majorities, 
> 
>        why would anyone believe that they will not be represented in
>        government?  And why would anyone 
> 
>        believe that they will vote to continue funding trails that they
>        and their people will never use?  
> 
> 
> 
>        Demographics are inexorable and unavoidable.  
> 
> 
> 
>        So your question may have been a lot of other things, but it is
>        not inconsequential.  
> 
> 
> 
>        And my answer to your friend is that he would be welcome on the
>        Trail.  
> 
> 
> 
>        Jim
> 
> 
> 
>        http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/
> 
> 
> 
> 
>          From: petersustr at gmail.com
> 
>          Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 11:17:53 -0700
> 
>          To: altongbay at aol.com
> 
>          CC: cdt-l at backcountry.net; dthibaul07 at gmail.com
> 
>          Subject: Re: [Cdt-l] CDT Integration
> 
> 
> 
>          My question originated from one of my friends
>            (black guy) who was joking around that he didn't want to be
>            the 'where's waldo' of the CDT if he joined me this summer
>            for a section.  All in good humor, not trying to start
>            anything :)
> 
> 
> 
> 
>            Peter "CzechXpress"
> 
> 
> 
>            Follow me as I
>                prepare to hike the CDT in 2013-   Couch2CDT.com and @Couch2CDT on
>                Twitter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>            On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 10:21 AM,
>              <altongbay at aol.com>
>              wrote:
> 
> 
>                bet he was surprised to
>                    see you and Judy coming out of the woods
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>                    -----Original Message-----
> 
>                      From: Bob Sartini <bobsartini at gmail.com>
> 
>                      To: David Thibault <dthibaul07 at gmail.com>
> 
>                      Cc: cdt-l <cdt-l at backcountry.net>
> 
>                      Sent: Fri, Jan 4, 2013 5:49 am
> 
>                      Subject: Re: [Cdt-l] CDT Integration
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>                      When we first moved to VT many years ago. We went
>                      off into the woods exploring and  "got turned
>                      around". We approached a house to find out where
>                      we were.  When we told the owner we came through
>                      the woods he said " I've lived here ten years and
>                      have never been in that woods, there are animals
>                      out there". he was white from NJ. So I doubt it's
>                      a race based thing but certainly urban people have
>                      "nature deficit disorder"
> 
> 
> 
>                      On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at
>                        9:43 PM, David Thibault <dthibaul07 at gmail.com>
>                        wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>                            There definitely is a lot less
>                              minorities then there should be.  I have
>                              run into a few Hispanic women but hardly
>                              any males,  I think it might be a cultural
>                              thing.
> 
>                            I do remember a guy on the AT calling
>                              the urban youth groups "hoods in the
>                              woods" programs.  
>                            I thought it was great that these folks
>                              (mostly kids) got the chance to head out
>                              into the woods for a few days.
> 
>                            I remember talking with one guy
>                              (teenager) as I walked into an AT shelter
>                              with a bunch of berries I'd picked on the
>                              way in - he asked in a surprised way "You
>                              can eat those?"  He had been walking by
>                              them all day and never considered you
>                              could just find things to eat in the
>                              woods.  
> 
>                            I also remember a Marine I met many
>                              years ago telling me the first time he
>                              ever left New York City was at age 18 - to
>                              go to Camp Lejuene in North Carolina - and
>                              how it really freaked him out to be in the
>                              woods surrounded by trees.  He said his
>                              unease started on the bus ride there and
>                              lasted for months.  
> 
>                            Having grown up hiking, camping, and
>                              fishing in the woods I was blown away that
>                              he was completely on edge being in the
>                              woods.  He told me he though animals were
>                              going to attack him every minute.  
> 
> 
>                            We need more minorities in the woods -
>                              the trails (wild areas) need all the
>                              friends/support they can get....
> 
>                            Day-Late (white middle aged guy)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>                                black and maybe 5% Asian and I can't
>                                recall meeting anyone that I
> 
>                                understood to be Hispanic.  On the AT
>                                I've met dozens if not hundreds of
> 
>                                "urban" youth groups out for a week or
>                                so. 
> 
> 
> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
>> We've all noticed when we go
>                                outdoors that every white middle aged
>                                guy
> 
>> goes outdoors but not enough
>                                minorities.
> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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