Flat Feet- <br>If your Ice axe has worked while hiking so far, It will be just fine for the CDT. The slopes encountered that are under snow are not that steep (relatively), and the only sections you might need an ice axe on are glacier and the bob (SoBo), or the san juans in Colorado (NoBo).<br>As for the mailing box, a trick we've used is to cut 2 long slices out of a cardboard box, tape them down to each other, one on each side of the axe. You end up with long flatish "box" that can be sent thru the mail. Just don't forget to pad the adze!<br>Happy hikin',<br>Remy. <br><br><b><i>linda butcher <mountainbliss@alltel.net></i></b> wrote:<blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> I don't want to belabor our Esbit story, so here goes for field expedient<br>cooking: Clothes dryer lint with petroleum jelly. The combo smokes, but<br>what the heck, the price is right.<br> If we are about
finished with the cooking fuel info, I would like to<br>introduce another topic - The ice axe. My ice axe is 85cm. The size works<br>for me, since I am 6'4" and I can use it like a trekking pole. However, the<br>problems I have with it are finding a box long enough to mail it home and<br>back if I need it again; it's longer than my back pack; and its weight.<br>Also, it might be too long for steep climbs. Not being familier with the<br>climbs on the CDT, would someone with knowledge of them give me some ice axe<br>requirement advice? Thanks.<br>Gene Butcher - Flat Feet<br>----- Original Message -----<br>From: <cdt-l-request@backcountry.net><br>To: <cdt-l@backcountry.net><br>Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 12:56 AM<br>Subject: cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 40<br><br><br>> Send cdt-l mailing list submissions to<br>> cdt-l@backcountry.net<br>><br>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>>
http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l<br>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>> cdt-l-request@backcountry.net<br>><br>> You can reach the person managing the list at<br>> cdt-l-owner@backcountry.net<br>><br>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>> than "Re: Contents of cdt-l digest..."<br>><br>><br>> Today's Topics:<br>><br>> 1. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Slyatpct@aol.com)<br>> 2. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Ken Powers)<br>> 3. Re: esbits (Anitra Kass)<br>> 4. Esbits (Francis Tapon)<br>><br>><br>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>><br>> Message: 1<br>> Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 13:14:13 EST<br>> From: Slyatpct@aol.com<br>> Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two<br>> To: cdt-l@backcountry.net<br>> Message-ID: <c3d.c703ff7.32c56375@aol.com><br>> Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>><br>><br>> In a message dated 12/28/2006 12:52:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,<br>> footslogger03@yahoo.com writes:<br>><br>> But I too would like to know if there is a way to refill/recylcle the<br>empty<br>> metal cannisters<br>><br>><br>> I know a guy who made a male/male valve system using the 1lb Coleman<br>propane<br>> to refill his Primus canisters to save money. He's attach the two and<br>let<br>> liquid/gas flow down into the Primus canister. It worked well until one<br>> blew-up in his wife's pack whike she was hiking on a hot, sunny day. He<br>attributed<br>> the 'explosion" to over filling. Fortunately, she wasn't injured, but if<br>> I'm not mistaken her pack was damaged.<br>><br>> It seems taking a couple partially full canisters on a weekend trip would<br>be<br>> safest.<br>><br>> Sly<br>> -------------- next part --------------<br>> An HTML attachment
was scrubbed...<br>> URL:<br>http://mailman.hack.net/pipermail/cdt-l/attachments/20061228/e4bb9a86/attach<br>ment-0001.html<br>><br>> ------------------------------<br>><br>> Message: 2<br>> Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 10:43:45 -0800<br>> From: "Ken Powers" <kdpo@pacbell.net><br>> Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two<br>> To: <cdt-l@backcountry.net><br>> Message-ID: <025501c72ab0$1bced920$6401a8c0@GottaWalk><br>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>><br>> We use the partials for weekend trips. Yeh, we carry a couple on the short<br>hikes. Or remodel your kitchen. ;) Refilling them yourself sounds dangerous<br>to me.<br>><br>> I hate having to put my warm hands on a canister on an icy morning. I have<br>made it a habit to sleep with my canister in cold weather. I think the<br>problem is the cold, not the altitude.<br>><br>> We rationalize that for long hikes we are using so few cans that adding
a<br>canister or 2 every week to the garbage isn't too bad. We have heard that we<br>can take the emptys to REI Berkeley for recycling. But we have never checked<br>up on that. It may just be a rumor.<br>><br>> Ken<br>> ----- Original Message -----<br>> From: Slyatpct@aol.com<br>> To: cdt-l@backcountry.net<br>> Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 10:14 AM<br>> Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two<br>><br>><br>> In a message dated 12/28/2006 12:52:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,<br>footslogger03@yahoo.com writes:<br>> But I too would like to know if there is a way to refill/recylcle the<br>empty metal cannisters<br>> I know a guy who made a male/male valve system using the 1lb Coleman<br>propane to refill his Primus canisters to save money. He's attach the two<br>and let liquid/gas flow down into the Primus canister. It worked well until<br>one blew-up in his wife's pack whike she was hiking on a hot, sunny day.
He<br>attributed the 'explosion" to over filling. Fortunately, she wasn't<br>injured, but if I'm not mistaken her pack was damaged.<br>><br>> It seems taking a couple partially full canisters on a weekend trip<br>would be safest.<br>><br>> Sly<br>><br>><br>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>----<br>><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> cdt-l mailing list<br>> cdt-l@backcountry.net<br>> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l<br>> -------------- next part --------------<br>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> URL:<br>http://mailman.hack.net/pipermail/cdt-l/attachments/20061228/0dd9b320/attach<br>ment-0001.html<br>><br>> ------------------------------<br>><br>> Message: 3<br>> Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 19:55:01 -0800 (PST)<br>> From: Anitra Kass <at_anitra@yahoo.com><br>> Subject: Re: [cdt-l] esbits<br>> To:
cdt-l@backcountry.net<br>> Message-ID: <649185.56889.qm@web34314.mail.mud.yahoo.com><br>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>><br>> I know I am late on joining in on this one but I use the bottom portion (2<br>inches maybe) of a coke can with holes punched around so that air can get to<br>the fire...it's worked well so far and it's super light and free since I<br>drink coke incessantly.<br>> NITRO<br>><br>> Karen Somers <kborski@yahoo.com> wrote:<br>> Linda,<br>><br>> I've found the best esbit stoves can be purchased at<br>> BackpackingLight.com. They are the Esbit folding wing<br>> stoves, one is steel (1.3 oz) and the other is<br>> titanium (0.5 oz). The steel version only lasts about<br>> 2 months before finally wearing thin on the hinges and<br>> breaking. But for $3 each, who's going to complain?<br>> The titanium version is $20, but should not break (I<br>> haven't used that one
yet).<br>><br>> I also have a friend who thru-hiked the CDT just<br>> cooking on the ground either holding his pot over the<br>> esbit or using rocks. I've tried this and can't stand<br>> it, but I think the little folding stoves are genious.<br>> The hiking pole idea is good, too.<br>><br>> Steel version:<br>><br>http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/esbit_folding_wing_<br>stove.html<br>><br>> Titanium version:<br>><br>http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/titanium-esbit-wing<br>-stove.html<br>><br>> Nocona<br>><br>><br>><br>> __________________________________________________<br>> Do You Yahoo!?<br>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around<br>> http://mail.yahoo.com<br>> _______________________________________________<br>> cdt-l mailing list<br>> cdt-l@backcountry.net<br>>
http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l<br>><br>><br>> __________________________________________________<br>> Do You Yahoo!?<br>> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around<br>> http://mail.yahoo.com<br>> -------------- next part --------------<br>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>> URL:<br>http://mailman.hack.net/pipermail/cdt-l/attachments/20061228/a237a84a/attach<br>ment-0001.html<br>><br>> ------------------------------<br>><br>> Message: 4<br>> Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 22:04:10 -0800<br>> From: "Francis Tapon" <ft@francistapon.com><br>> Subject: [cdt-l] Esbits<br>> To: <cdt-l@backcountry.net><br>> Message-ID:<br>> <001a01c72b0f$4328f550$660fa8c0@redmond.corp.microsoft.com><br>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>><br>> Flat Feet has several outstanding ideas there. I especially like the idea<br>of<br>> pre-soaking to save fuel. An extremist might
just soak and eat food cold<br>to<br>> leave behind all the cooking stuff! (Has anyone tried this?)<br>><br>> Here's an idea to let you leave the Esbit stove behind. Instead of finding<br>> flat rocks, use your tarp/tent stakes!<br>><br>> 1) Shove at least 3 stakes into the dirt to create an even platform to<br>place<br>> the pot.<br>><br>> 2) Place the Esbit tablet on a small piece of aluminum foil under the pot.<br>><br>> 3) Light Esbit and voila!<br>><br>> A variation is instead of using a tiny piece of foil, use a large piece of<br>> aluminum foil to create a windscreen. Mold the foil around the stakes.<br>><br>> If the dirt is so hard that the stakes don't go in too deep (but they do<br>go<br>> in), then slip a rock under the foil to bring the Esbit closer to the pot.<br>><br>> I agree that Esbits have a slightly unpleasant smell. I always keep them<br>in<br>> a ziplock on an outside pouch of my pack so the
smell doesn't permeate the<br>> pot or food.<br>><br>> One more thing: instead of throwing dirt on the Esbit to blow it out, just<br>> blow it out with your breath. That way when you re-light it the Esbit will<br>> burn as efficiently as possible. (OK, I realize a little dirt probably<br>won't<br>> make any difference in how it burns, but blowing it out seems a more<br>elegant<br>> and tidy solution, and we know thru-hikers are all about tidiness!) :-)<br>><br>> Happy New Year!<br>><br>> Francis Tapon<br>> Check out this 2 minute video:<br>><br>http://www.mydream.tv/dream_category.php?dc=66f041e16a60928b05a7e228a89c3799<br>><br>> Learn about my book, Hike Your Own Hike: 7 Life Lessons from Backpacking<br>> Across America, at: http://www.FrancisTapon.com/book<br>><br>> > -----Original Message-----<br>> > From: linda butcher [mailto:mountainbliss@alltel.net]<br>> > Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 8:25
PM<br>> > To: cdt-l@backcountry.net<br>> > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 34<br>> ><br>> > Nocona,<br>> > Esbit was my choice on the PCT and will also be what I will use on the<br>CDT<br>> > this year. To make this choice even lighter, I am thinking about making<br>a<br>> > "cat can Esbit stove," similar to the alcohol cat can stove. Once can<br>> > eliminate the stove and just find some flat rocks to surround the Esbit<br>> > tablets that are high enough to support a pot. I used the rocks plan at<br>> > first, but some times I spent too much time finding the right size<br>rocks,<br>> > so<br>> > I broke down and bought the Esbit stove:) I used less than one esbit<br>> > tablet<br>> > per meal. I often soaked the food before hand in an empty peanut butter<br>> > jar<br>> > while still on the trail. To save fuel, I put the soaked noodle in
the<br>pot<br>> > and removed the pot from the stove once it started boiling hard (if I<br>> > trusted the water to start with, if not let boil for a minute longer),<br>> > then<br>> > added the cheese, etc., covered the pot, and set it aside to thicken and<br>> > cool down. Often the tablet did not totally burn up, so I would throw<br>> > some<br>> > dirt on it, and when cool, saved it. After awhile I had enough little<br>> > tablet pieces to cook another meal. I carried enough Esbit tablets to<br>> > last<br>> > in between mail drops. The stove, tin foil wind shield, a weeks supply<br>of<br>> > tablets, spoon, cleaning rag and scrubbie, soap and a small 1/2 oz<br>> > container<br>> > of denatured alcohol (before lighting, just a drop or two on the tablet<br>in<br>> > windy conditions) all fit into my small titanium pot. The only thing I<br>> > did<br>> > not like about
the Esbit tablets is the smell that sometimes chases you<br>> > around the pot, and it does take a little longer to boil water than<br>other<br>> > stove choices. Oh, one other idea to lighten ones load: On the PCT, I<br>> > hiked<br>> > with two Canadians for a few days, one used his trekking poles for his<br>> > stove. Here's how he did it: He covered the bottom section of his<br>poles<br>> > with tin foil, laid them side by side on the ground far enough apart to<br>> > support his pot, and lit up an Esbit tablet under the pot. It worked<br>for<br>> > him, his trail name was "Papa Grande."<br>> > Okay, I get long winded sometimes when reminiscencing -hope these ideas<br>> > might help someone.<br>> > Flat Feet, AT-90, PCT-00, "CDT-07"<br>> > ----- Original Message -----<br>> > From: <cdt-l-request@backcountry.net><br>> > To: <cdt-l@backcountry.net><br>> > Sent: Tuesday, December
26, 2006 8:47 PM<br>> > Subject: cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 34<br>> ><br>> ><br>> > > Send cdt-l mailing list submissions to<br>> > > cdt-l@backcountry.net<br>> > ><br>> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>> > > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l<br>> > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>> > > cdt-l-request@backcountry.net<br>> > ><br>> > > You can reach the person managing the list at<br>> > > cdt-l-owner@backcountry.net<br>> > ><br>> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>> > > than "Re: Contents of cdt-l digest..."<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > Today's Topics:<br>> > ><br>> > > 1. Does using GPS diminish the experience? (Paul Magnanti)<br>> > > 2. Re: An alcohol stove for
two (Alistair and Gail Des Moulins)<br>> > > 3. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Remy Levin)<br>> > > 4. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Karen Somers)<br>> > > 5. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Ginny & Jim Owen)<br>> > > 6. Re: Does using GPS diminish the experience? (Chris)<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> > ><br>> > > Message: 1<br>> > > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 10:14:31 -0800 (PST)<br>> > > From: Paul Magnanti <pmags@yahoo.com><br>> > > Subject: [cdt-l] Does using GPS diminish the experience?<br>> > > To: CDT MailingList <cdt-l@backcountry.net><br>> > > Message-ID: <303684.40713.qm@web31806.mail.mud.yahoo.com><br>> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1<br>> > ><br>> > > This type of discussion ends up being what I call<br>>
> > "Thru-hiker angels on the head of a pin". Something<br>> > > that is only discussed on hiking forums and is<br>> > > theoretical. :)<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > In reality, whether you take a GPS or don't take a GPS<br>> > > is not going to diminish your experience. Take one,<br>> > > don't take one.<br>> > ><br>> > > The kind of experience you have on the the trail is<br>> > > what you put into the hike. The sunsets are still<br>> > > awesome, the remoteness of the trail is still<br>> > > wonderful, the journey is still rewarding.<br>> > ><br>> > > Just enjoy the hike one way or another. I did not take<br>> > > a GPS, friends of mine did. All of us had one hell of<br>> > > an experience.<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > >
************************************************************<br>> > > The true harvest of my life is intangible.... a little stardust<br>> > > caught, a portion of the rainbow I have clutched<br>> > > --Thoreau<br>> > > http://www.magnanti.com<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > ------------------------------<br>> > ><br>> > > Message: 2<br>> > > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 13:27:58 -0700<br>> > > From: "Alistair and Gail Des Moulins" <aandg@telusplanet.net><br>> > > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two<br>> > > To: <cdt-l@backcountry.net>, <kborski@yahoo.com><br>> > > Message-ID: <003801c7292c$55e21c10$528dba89@your4f1261a8e5><br>> > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";<br>> > > reply-type=original<br>> > ><br>> > > Gail and I used a Fat Pika alcohol stove during our 5 months on
the<br>CDT<br>> > this<br>> > > year. See http://pbase.com/image/72011334/original for a photo of our<br>> > stove<br>> > > and stand in Wyoming's Great Basin.<br>> > > We used an MSR XGK white gas stove on our 6 month thru hike of the PCT<br>> > in<br>> > > 2003.<br>> > > On the CDT on most days we had hot cereal and a hot drink for<br>breakfast<br>> > and<br>> > > cooked a meal and a hot drink for supper. We used between 5 and 6<br>ounces<br>> > of<br>> > > fuel per day depending on water temperature and other factors. Each<br>meal<br>> > and<br>> > > drink usually was 4 + cups of water. The stove would easily handle<br>> > boiling<br>> > 6<br>> > > cups of water and on a couple of nights we used it to melt snow but<br>that<br>> > > requires almost double the fuel (and that's, of course, true for any<br>> > stove).<br>> >
> On the PCT with the MSR we could get 10 to 11 days cooking from a<br>litre<br>> > (35<br>> > > oz) of white gas.<br>> > > On the CDT we did two 12 day sections without resupply (East Glacier<br>to<br>> > > Lincoln, and Dubois to Atlantic City, yes we are not fast hikers and<br>we<br>> > > wanted to have spare days in the Winds). On these 2 sections we<br>carried<br>> > six<br>> > > 12 oz bottles of HEET.<br>> > > For these 12 day loads the weight of six bottles of HEET and the Fat<br>> > Pika<br>> > > stove exceeded the weight of the MSR stove, screen + stove parts + 12<br>> > days<br>> > > of white gas that we would have carried had we had the MSR. After 3 or<br>4<br>> > > days the weight of systems would have been about the same and after<br>that<br>> > the<br>> > > Alcohol system total weight is less than the corresponding MSR system<br>> >
> weight.<br>> > > Prior to our CDT trip I did tests of fuel usage and boil times using<br>the<br>> > Fat<br>> > > Pika and the MSR. The Fat Pika used nearly double the volume of fuel<br>> > > compared to the MSR. The boil times of the Fat Pika were faster than<br>the<br>> > > MSR. Also water boiled faster using a larger diameter pot - so if you<br>> > take<br>> > > a 2 litre capacity pot, an 8" diameter pot will require less fuel than<br>a<br>> > 7"<br>> > > diameter one.<br>> > > I realised we'd be carrying a larger total weight of stove and fuel on<br>a<br>> > few<br>> > > days on the trip if we used the Fat Pika instead of the MSR but<br>> > generally<br>> > > we'd be carrying less weight than the MSR.<br>> > > On balance, although our MSR had served us very well on the PCT, I<br>> > decided<br>> > > to take the Fat Pika on the CDT
because we'd not even have to worry<br>> > about<br>> > > blocked jets, failing pump washers and leaking 'O' rings.<br>> > > On the CDT we found HEET was available at almost all town stops, white<br>> > gas<br>> > > was not so available and was usually in gallon containers when we saw<br>> it.<br>> > > On the PCT with the MSR, we'd usually find a 'hiker can' of white gas<br>in<br>> > > towns. If not we'd buy a gallon and leave the rest for following<br>hikers.<br>> > > With only about 20 hikers going each way a year on the CDT this system<br>> > would<br>> > > not work so well and I think you'd end up buying a lot more gallons of<br>> > white<br>> > > gas.<br>> > ><br>> > > For more details on the Fat Pika stove see<br>> > > http://users.sisqtel.net/losthiker/pikastove/<br>> > ><br>> > > Alistair<br>> > ><br>> >
><br>> > > ----- Original Message -----<br>> > > From: "Karen Somers" <kborski@yahoo.com><br>> > > To: <cdt-l@backcountry.net><br>> > > Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 8:48 PM<br>> > > Subject: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > > Ginny wrote:<br>> > > ><br>> > > > "We never had to carry more than one<br>> > > > full 20 oz Pepsi bottle for the two of us."<br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > > This brings up a topic that I am have a question<br>> > > > about......I'm looking for a two-person alcohol stove.<br>> > > > My past attempts to find an alcohol stove that will<br>> > > > cook a pot of food for two hikers were unsuccessful.<br>> > > > We've tried several different al. stove designs, but<br>> > > > it takes too much fuel to get a one liter
plus pot of<br>> > > > water boiling. So, my husband and I have always used<br>> > > > white gas when we are cooking for two. It just proves<br>> > > > more economical all the way around. However, we heard<br>> > > > that there was a new al. stove built for two (rumor at<br>> > > > the ADZ party). Ginny and others, what alcohol stove<br>> > > > design do you use for two people?<br>> > > ><br>> > > > Nocona<br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > > __________________________________________________<br>> > > > Do You Yahoo!?<br>> > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around<br>> > > > http://mail.yahoo.com<br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > ------------------------------<br>> >
><br>> > > Message: 3<br>> > > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 13:06:04 -0800 (PST)<br>> > > From: Remy Levin <fellowship_of_yatzek@yahoo.com><br>> > > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two<br>> > > To: cdt-l@backcountry.net<br>> > > Message-ID: <20061226210604.31571.qmail@web52402.mail.yahoo.com><br>> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>> > ><br>> > > We used the same alcohol stove we use on the PCT on the CDT this<br>summer.<br>> > With over 7000 miles on it (it was purchased in hot springs, NC) It's<br>beat<br>> > up , but still works great. It has a capacity to hold about 2 ounces<br>of<br>> > Heet at a time, which was definitely enough for cooking 2+, sometimes<br>> > three<br>> > liptons at a time.<br>> > > A few tips that save on gas and cook food faster: put the noodles in<br>the<br>> > water a couple min. before
putting the pot on the fire. Always use a<br>> > windscreen and avoid windy spots as much as possible. Let the noodles<br>sit<br>> > for a few min. after the stove is out- they don't have to cook<br>completely<br>> > that way, as they will soften by soaking up water. plus, they'll be nice<br><br>=== message truncated ===</fellowship_of_yatzek@yahoo.com></cdt-l@backcountry.net></kborski@yahoo.com></kborski@yahoo.com></cdt-l@backcountry.net></aandg@telusplanet.net></cdt-l@backcountry.net></pmags@yahoo.com></cdt-l@backcountry.net></cdt-l-request@backcountry.net></cdt-l@backcountry.net></ft@francistapon.com></kborski@yahoo.com></at_anitra@yahoo.com></cdt-l@backcountry.net></kdpo@pacbell.net></c3d.c703ff7.32c56375@aol.com></cdt-l@backcountry.net></cdt-l-request@backcountry.net></blockquote><br><p> __________________________________________________<br>Do You Yahoo!?<br>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around <br>http://mail.yahoo.com