<html><div style='background-color:'><P>Maybe someone already put this out there, but how many of you are intended through hikers for next year? What is your intended direction of travel--northbound, southbound, or flip-flop?</P>
<P>Star, d=rt, Token Clivilian and I are having a little reunion right now and we are all (except TC) preparing for next year and curious who else will be out there. </P>
<P><BR>-Treehugger<BR></P>
<DIV>
<P>A perfect day is any day that ends with a new way of looking at the world. This generally takes a lot of physical effort in the mountains.</P>
<P>- Will Gadd</P></DIV>
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From: <I>cdt-l-request@backcountry.net</I><BR>Reply-To: <I>cdt-l@backcountry.net</I><BR>To: <I>cdt-l@backcountry.net</I><BR>Subject: <I>cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 42</I><BR>Date: <I>Fri, 29 Dec 2006 20:17:08 -0600</I><BR>>Send cdt-l mailing list submissions to<BR>> cdt-l@backcountry.net<BR>><BR>>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<BR>> http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l<BR>>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<BR>> cdt-l-request@backcountry.net<BR>><BR>>You can reach the person managing the list at<BR>> cdt-l-owner@backcountry.net<BR>><BR>>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<BR>>than "Re: Contents of cdt-l digest..."<BR>><BR>><BR>>Today's Topics:<BR>><BR>> 1. Re: Black pot = increased heat (James McCreight)<BR>> 2. packs
(wrwebster@commspeed.net)<BR>> 3. Macks Inn (wrwebster@commspeed.net)<BR>> 4. Re: cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 40 (linda butcher)<BR>><BR>><BR>>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>><BR>>Message: 1<BR>>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 13:54:49 -0700<BR>>From: "James McCreight" <jlmccreight@gmail.com><BR>>Subject: Re: [cdt-l] Black pot = increased heat<BR>>To: cdt-l@backcountry.net<BR>>Message-ID:<BR>> <897ae8190612291254l24a38e6fx1a24ec0544e50977@mail.gmail.com><BR>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>><BR>>was there a follow up to this? I havent been paying the closest attention...<BR>><BR>><BR>>anyway, yes, conduction, convection, and ratiation are acting on the pot to<BR>>heat it (or cool it). However, if it's windy, advection will be important.<BR>>to distinguish
advection and convection: advection is something you fight<BR>>with a windscreen, convection you cant do much about:<BR>><BR>>convection: if the air is still, the air around the flame and pot heats. It<BR>>becomes less dense in warming and rises. It is replaced by cooler, more<BR>>dense air, which heats. This is why bedouins wear black in the desert, they<BR>>get a convective air flow through their clothes.<BR>>advection: Transfer of heat by wind not caused by heating the pot.<BR>><BR>>of course, this is being technical. often times you will find them lumped<BR>>into one (eg a decent link on the topic:<BR>>http://www.me.tulane.edu/Faculty/Zhang/Courses/ME371/Chapter12A.ppt )<BR>><BR>>what's important is what fraction of the change in temperature (per unit<BR>>time) is determined by each process; the total change in temperature is the<BR>>sum
of the 4 terms of conduction, advection, convection and radiation.<BR>><BR>>What should be happening here is that the conduction term forms the largest<BR>>part of the sum - that is assuming we are heating from below with a flame.<BR>>The heat of the flame is conducted by the pot. The expression for heating<BR>>the pot, the rate of change of temperature, is positive; the pot warms up.<BR>>(what we are really interested in here is the temperature of the inside of<BR>>the pot, we want to raise this quickly.)<BR>><BR>>Note that advection, convection and radiation are probably all negative,<BR>>heat is being transfered from the pot to the environment; the pot is loosing<BR>>temperature via these processes. (The total heat of the flame in contact<BR>>with the pot will also be diminished by these, but let's just talk about the<BR>>pot, not the pot-flame
system ;) The pot will always be loosing heat to it's<BR>>environment after cooking (unless you're on a really hot planet - but then<BR>>you'd probably be dead). This is because energy flows from high<BR>>(temperature) to low (temperature), the system strives for equilibrium. This<BR>>is also why heat flows from the flame to the inside of the pot.<BR>><BR>>Now advection and convection depend on conduction in a sense; flow of air<BR>>around the pot is likely replacing hot air with colder air near the surface<BR>>of the pot. This causes a greater temperature difference and causes more<BR>>heat to be conducted out of the pot. (Remember that the pot is not heated<BR>>uniformly, it may actually be loosing heat somewhere... )<BR>><BR>>Now note that if we heat the pot with a flame, the temperature difference<BR>>between the pot and environment will
increase. So, in other words, as we<BR>>heat the pot the amount of loss from convection, advection, and radiation<BR>>will both increase!! (It's a nonlinear partial differential equation!) The<BR>>conduction will also increase as a function of temperature! (eg<BR>>http://galileo.phys.virginia.edu/classes/152.mf1i.spring02/HeatTransport.htm<BR>>)<BR>><BR>>What will be true at the temperatures we are operating at is that the<BR>>advection and convection terms will dominate, if it's not windy then there<BR>>will be no advection, just convection. We've all tried to cook in wind,<BR>>soups not hot! In the absence of wind we really have no problem heating up<BR>>the stove: convection is relatively unimportant as is radiation.<BR>><BR>>Now for conduction: we apply flame, the pot heats up accordingly. What<BR>>matters most in heating up the pot, or the
inside of the pot, are the<BR>>properties of the pot 1) thickness 2) thermal conductivity. Considering we<BR>>keep the pot shape the same and only change the material, or the thermal<BR>>conductivity. Then you can look here, for example, to compare types of<BR>>materials and their conductivities:<BR>>http://www.engineersedge.com/properties_of_metals.htm The double edged sword<BR>>here is that material which transfers heat best will also transfer heat away<BR>>best! So your pot will cool down faster as well as heat up faster. (Think<BR>>about hooking in a ceramic dish vs a tin pan.)<BR>><BR>>So, assuming that our pots are equal size and shape but different matierial,<BR>>the difference in heating is govered by the thermal conductivity. The chart<BR>>shows that Al will conduct about 10x better than Ti, but those are for pure<BR>>metals. Who knows what
alloys we are working with here....<BR>><BR>>Introducing a black surface will only change the radiation term by some<BR>>percentage. But this was already shown to be a small term. So it really wont<BR>>matter. Putting the pot in your jacket before you cook would probably do<BR>>more. Of course we could put numbers to this... but that would take a<BR>>while...<BR>><BR>>james<BR>><BR>>J<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>On 12/28/06, Mark Dixon <mkdixon1@excite.com> wrote:<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > Radiant heat is what you feel standing in front of a campfire. Conduction<BR>> > is heat transfer by direct contact, like if you reach in and grab a hot coal<BR>> > with your hands. Convection is the movement of heat with air currents, for<BR>> > example. I think cooking on a campstove involves radiation and
convection,<BR>> > but not conduction. The other Marks tests with different materials and<BR>> > colors (not in direct sunlight) makes sense from what I remember from way<BR>> > back: that there should be no difference. I'll dig up my old text book and<BR>> > see if I can find something.<BR>> ><BR>> > Mark<BR>> ><BR>> > _______________________________________________<BR>> > Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com<BR>> > The most personalized portal on the Web!<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > _______________________________________________<BR>> > cdt-l mailing list<BR>> > cdt-l@backcountry.net<BR>> > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l<BR>> ><BR>>-------------- next part --------------<BR>>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<BR>>URL:
http://mailman.hack.net/pipermail/cdt-l/attachments/20061229/2747461a/attachment-0001.html<BR>><BR>>------------------------------<BR>><BR>>Message: 2<BR>>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 14:49:49 -0700 (MST)<BR>>From: wrwebster@commspeed.net<BR>>Subject: [cdt-l] packs<BR>>To: cdt-l@backcountry.net<BR>>Message-ID:<BR>> <1203.216.19.8.206.1167428989.squirrel@webmail.commspeed.net><BR>>Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1<BR>><BR>>While section hiking the CDT this summer, I used a Mountainsmith pack.<BR>>While it had some nice features in a medium size pack, it's design had a<BR>>metal D-ring between the shoulder straps and the aluminum stays. One of<BR>>the straps chafed thru before I got to a food stop where I could duct tape<BR>>it against more chafing. The other strap was also chafed most of the way<BR>>thru. Not the kind of
problem that gives confidence in your equipment<BR>>(although 1/8 nylon cord salvaged it temporarily).<BR>><BR>>Recently I bought an Arcteryx Bora pack, which is slightly larger in<BR>>volume and heavier; it looks much more substantial in design. Anybody out<BR>>there with good or bad experience with Arcteryx, other than its heavier<BR>>weight.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>------------------------------<BR>><BR>>Message: 3<BR>>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 14:57:32 -0700 (MST)<BR>>From: wrwebster@commspeed.net<BR>>Subject: [cdt-l] Macks Inn<BR>>To: cdt-l@backcountry.net<BR>>Message-ID:<BR>> <1213.216.19.8.206.1167429452.squirrel@webmail.commspeed.net><BR>>Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1<BR>><BR>>This summer I plan to section hike the CDT from Macks Inn to the southern<BR>>end of the Wind Rivers, and
hopefully Steamboat to I-70. Does anyone know<BR>>of a bus from the West Yellowstone airport to Mack's Inn and how to<BR>>arrange for it.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>------------------------------<BR>><BR>>Message: 4<BR>>Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2006 21:21:42 -0500<BR>>From: "linda butcher" <mountainbliss@alltel.net><BR>>Subject: Re: [cdt-l] cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 40<BR>>To: <cdt-l@backcountry.net><BR>>Message-ID: <000a01c72bb9$4119c320$6b4266a6@computer><BR>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>><BR>>I don't want to belabor our Esbit story, so here goes for field expedient<BR>>cooking: Clothes dryer lint with petroleum jelly. The combo smokes, but<BR>>what the heck, the price is right.<BR>> If we are about finished with the cooking fuel info, I would like to<BR>>introduce another topic - The ice axe. My ice
axe is 85cm. The size works<BR>>for me, since I am 6'4" and I can use it like a trekking pole. However, the<BR>>problems I have with it are finding a box long enough to mail it home and<BR>>back if I need it again; it's longer than my back pack; and its weight.<BR>>Also, it might be too long for steep climbs. Not being familier with the<BR>>climbs on the CDT, would someone with knowledge of them give me some ice axe<BR>>requirement advice? Thanks.<BR>>Gene Butcher - Flat Feet<BR>>----- Original Message -----<BR>>From: <cdt-l-request@backcountry.net><BR>>To: <cdt-l@backcountry.net><BR>>Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 12:56 AM<BR>>Subject: cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 40<BR>><BR>><BR>> > Send cdt-l mailing list submissions to<BR>> > cdt-l@backcountry.net<BR>> ><BR>> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide
Web, visit<BR>> > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l<BR>> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<BR>> > cdt-l-request@backcountry.net<BR>> ><BR>> > You can reach the person managing the list at<BR>> > cdt-l-owner@backcountry.net<BR>> ><BR>> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<BR>> > than "Re: Contents of cdt-l digest..."<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > Today's Topics:<BR>> ><BR>> > 1. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Slyatpct@aol.com)<BR>> > 2. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Ken Powers)<BR>> > 3. Re: esbits (Anitra Kass)<BR>> > 4. Esbits (Francis Tapon)<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>> ><BR>> > Message: 1<BR>> > Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006
13:14:13 EST<BR>> > From: Slyatpct@aol.com<BR>> > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two<BR>> > To: cdt-l@backcountry.net<BR>> > Message-ID: <c3d.c703ff7.32c56375@aol.com><BR>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > In a message dated 12/28/2006 12:52:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,<BR>> > footslogger03@yahoo.com writes:<BR>> ><BR>> > But I too would like to know if there is a way to refill/recylcle the<BR>>empty<BR>> > metal cannisters<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > I know a guy who made a male/male valve system using the 1lb Coleman<BR>>propane<BR>> > to refill his Primus canisters to save money. He's attach the two and<BR>>let<BR>> > liquid/gas flow down into the Primus canister. It worked well until one<BR>> > blew-up in his wife's pack
whike she was hiking on a hot, sunny day. He<BR>>attributed<BR>> > the 'explosion" to over filling. Fortunately, she wasn't injured, but if<BR>> > I'm not mistaken her pack was damaged.<BR>> ><BR>> > It seems taking a couple partially full canisters on a weekend trip would<BR>>be<BR>> > safest.<BR>> ><BR>> > Sly<BR>> > -------------- next part --------------<BR>> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<BR>> > URL:<BR>>http://mailman.hack.net/pipermail/cdt-l/attachments/20061228/e4bb9a86/attach<BR>>ment-0001.html<BR>> ><BR>> > ------------------------------<BR>> ><BR>> > Message: 2<BR>> > Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 10:43:45 -0800<BR>> > From: "Ken Powers" <kdpo@pacbell.net><BR>> > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two<BR>> > To:
<cdt-l@backcountry.net><BR>> > Message-ID: <025501c72ab0$1bced920$6401a8c0@GottaWalk><BR>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>> ><BR>> > We use the partials for weekend trips. Yeh, we carry a couple on the short<BR>>hikes. Or remodel your kitchen. ;) Refilling them yourself sounds dangerous<BR>>to me.<BR>> ><BR>> > I hate having to put my warm hands on a canister on an icy morning. I have<BR>>made it a habit to sleep with my canister in cold weather. I think the<BR>>problem is the cold, not the altitude.<BR>> ><BR>> > We rationalize that for long hikes we are using so few cans that adding a<BR>>canister or 2 every week to the garbage isn't too bad. We have heard that we<BR>>can take the emptys to REI Berkeley for recycling. But we have never checked<BR>>up on that. It may just be a
rumor.<BR>> ><BR>> > Ken<BR>> > ----- Original Message -----<BR>> > From: Slyatpct@aol.com<BR>> > To: cdt-l@backcountry.net<BR>> > Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 10:14 AM<BR>> > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > In a message dated 12/28/2006 12:52:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,<BR>>footslogger03@yahoo.com writes:<BR>> > But I too would like to know if there is a way to refill/recylcle the<BR>>empty metal cannisters<BR>> > I know a guy who made a male/male valve system using the 1lb Coleman<BR>>propane to refill his Primus canisters to save money. He's attach the two<BR>>and let liquid/gas flow down into the Primus canister. It worked well until<BR>>one blew-up in his wife's pack whike she was hiking on a hot, sunny day. He<BR>>attributed the 'explosion" to over
filling. Fortunately, she wasn't<BR>>injured, but if I'm not mistaken her pack was damaged.<BR>> ><BR>> > It seems taking a couple partially full canisters on a weekend trip<BR>>would be safest.<BR>> ><BR>> > Sly<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>>----<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > _______________________________________________<BR>> > cdt-l mailing list<BR>> > cdt-l@backcountry.net<BR>> > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l<BR>> > -------------- next part --------------<BR>> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<BR>> > URL:<BR>>http://mailman.hack.net/pipermail/cdt-l/attachments/20061228/0dd9b320/attach<BR>>ment-0001.html<BR>> ><BR>> > ------------------------------<BR>> ><BR>> > Message:
3<BR>> > Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 19:55:01 -0800 (PST)<BR>> > From: Anitra Kass <at_anitra@yahoo.com><BR>> > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] esbits<BR>> > To: cdt-l@backcountry.net<BR>> > Message-ID: <649185.56889.qm@web34314.mail.mud.yahoo.com><BR>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>> ><BR>> > I know I am late on joining in on this one but I use the bottom portion (2<BR>>inches maybe) of a coke can with holes punched around so that air can get to<BR>>the fire...it's worked well so far and it's super light and free since I<BR>>drink coke incessantly.<BR>> > NITRO<BR>> ><BR>> > Karen Somers <kborski@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>> > Linda,<BR>> ><BR>> > I've found the best esbit stoves can be purchased at<BR>> > BackpackingLight.com. They are the Esbit folding wing<BR>> >
stoves, one is steel (1.3 oz) and the other is<BR>> > titanium (0.5 oz). The steel version only lasts about<BR>> > 2 months before finally wearing thin on the hinges and<BR>> > breaking. But for $3 each, who's going to complain?<BR>> > The titanium version is $20, but should not break (I<BR>> > haven't used that one yet).<BR>> ><BR>> > I also have a friend who thru-hiked the CDT just<BR>> > cooking on the ground either holding his pot over the<BR>> > esbit or using rocks. I've tried this and can't stand<BR>> > it, but I think the little folding stoves are genious.<BR>> > The hiking pole idea is good, too.<BR>> ><BR>> > Steel version:<BR>> ><BR>>http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/esbit_folding_wing_<BR>>stove.html<BR>> ><BR>> > Titanium version:<BR>>
><BR>>http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/titanium-esbit-wing<BR>>-stove.html<BR>> ><BR>> > Nocona<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > __________________________________________________<BR>> > Do You Yahoo!?<BR>> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around<BR>> > http://mail.yahoo.com<BR>> > _______________________________________________<BR>> > cdt-l mailing list<BR>> > cdt-l@backcountry.net<BR>> > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > __________________________________________________<BR>> > Do You Yahoo!?<BR>> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around<BR>> > http://mail.yahoo.com<BR>> > -------------- next part --------------<BR>> > An HTML attachment was
scrubbed...<BR>> > URL:<BR>>http://mailman.hack.net/pipermail/cdt-l/attachments/20061228/a237a84a/attach<BR>>ment-0001.html<BR>> ><BR>> > ------------------------------<BR>> ><BR>> > Message: 4<BR>> > Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 22:04:10 -0800<BR>> > From: "Francis Tapon" <ft@francistapon.com><BR>> > Subject: [cdt-l] Esbits<BR>> > To: <cdt-l@backcountry.net><BR>> > Message-ID:<BR>> > <001a01c72b0f$4328f550$660fa8c0@redmond.corp.microsoft.com><BR>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<BR>> ><BR>> > Flat Feet has several outstanding ideas there. I especially like the idea<BR>>of<BR>> > pre-soaking to save fuel. An extremist might just soak and eat food cold<BR>>to<BR>> > leave behind all the cooking stuff! (Has anyone tried this?)<BR>> ><BR>> >
Here's an idea to let you leave the Esbit stove behind. Instead of finding<BR>> > flat rocks, use your tarp/tent stakes!<BR>> ><BR>> > 1) Shove at least 3 stakes into the dirt to create an even platform to<BR>>place<BR>> > the pot.<BR>> ><BR>> > 2) Place the Esbit tablet on a small piece of aluminum foil under the pot.<BR>> ><BR>> > 3) Light Esbit and voila!<BR>> ><BR>> > A variation is instead of using a tiny piece of foil, use a large piece of<BR>> > aluminum foil to create a windscreen. Mold the foil around the stakes.<BR>> ><BR>> > If the dirt is so hard that the stakes don't go in too deep (but they do<BR>>go<BR>> > in), then slip a rock under the foil to bring the Esbit closer to the pot.<BR>> ><BR>> > I agree that Esbits have a slightly unpleasant smell. I always keep
them<BR>>in<BR>> > a ziplock on an outside pouch of my pack so the smell doesn't permeate the<BR>> > pot or food.<BR>> ><BR>> > One more thing: instead of throwing dirt on the Esbit to blow it out, just<BR>> > blow it out with your breath. That way when you re-light it the Esbit will<BR>> > burn as efficiently as possible. (OK, I realize a little dirt probably<BR>>won't<BR>> > make any difference in how it burns, but blowing it out seems a more<BR>>elegant<BR>> > and tidy solution, and we know thru-hikers are all about tidiness!) :-)<BR>> ><BR>> > Happy New Year!<BR>> ><BR>> > Francis Tapon<BR>> > Check out this 2 minute video:<BR>> ><BR>>http://www.mydream.tv/dream_category.php?dc=66f041e16a60928b05a7e228a89c3799<BR>> ><BR>> > Learn about my book, Hike Your Own Hike: 7 Life
Lessons from Backpacking<BR>> > Across America, at: http://www.FrancisTapon.com/book<BR>> ><BR>> > > -----Original Message-----<BR>> > > From: linda butcher [mailto:mountainbliss@alltel.net]<BR>> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 8:25 PM<BR>> > > To: cdt-l@backcountry.net<BR>> > > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 34<BR>> > ><BR>> > > Nocona,<BR>> > > Esbit was my choice on the PCT and will also be what I will use on the<BR>>CDT<BR>> > > this year. To make this choice even lighter, I am thinking about making<BR>>a<BR>> > > "cat can Esbit stove," similar to the alcohol cat can stove. Once can<BR>> > > eliminate the stove and just find some flat rocks to surround the Esbit<BR>> > > tablets that are high enough to support a pot. I used the rocks
plan at<BR>> > > first, but some times I spent too much time finding the right size<BR>>rocks,<BR>> > > so<BR>> > > I broke down and bought the Esbit stove:) I used less than one esbit<BR>> > > tablet<BR>> > > per meal. I often soaked the food before hand in an empty peanut butter<BR>> > > jar<BR>> > > while still on the trail. To save fuel, I put the soaked noodle in the<BR>>pot<BR>> > > and removed the pot from the stove once it started boiling hard (if I<BR>> > > trusted the water to start with, if not let boil for a minute longer),<BR>> > > then<BR>> > > added the cheese, etc., covered the pot, and set it aside to thicken and<BR>> > > cool down. Often the tablet did not totally burn up, so I would throw<BR>> > > some<BR>> > > dirt on it, and when cool,
saved it. After awhile I had enough little<BR>> > > tablet pieces to cook another meal. I carried enough Esbit tablets to<BR>> > > last<BR>> > > in between mail drops. The stove, tin foil wind shield, a weeks supply<BR>>of<BR>> > > tablets, spoon, cleaning rag and scrubbie, soap and a small 1/2 oz<BR>> > > container<BR>> > > of denatured alcohol (before lighting, just a drop or two on the tablet<BR>>in<BR>> > > windy conditions) all fit into my small titanium pot. The only thing I<BR>> > > did<BR>> > > not like about the Esbit tablets is the smell that sometimes chases you<BR>> > > around the pot, and it does take a little longer to boil water than<BR>>other<BR>> > > stove choices. Oh, one other idea to lighten ones load: On the PCT, I<BR>> > > hiked<BR>> > > with
two Canadians for a few days, one used his trekking poles for his<BR>> > > stove. Here's how he did it: He covered the bottom section of his<BR>>poles<BR>> > > with tin foil, laid them side by side on the ground far enough apart to<BR>> > > support his pot, and lit up an Esbit tablet under the pot. It worked<BR>>for<BR>> > > him, his trail name was "Papa Grande."<BR>> > > Okay, I get long winded sometimes when reminiscencing -hope these ideas<BR>> > > might help someone.<BR>> > > Flat Feet, AT-90, PCT-00, "CDT-07"<BR>> > > ----- Original Message -----<BR>> > > From: <cdt-l-request@backcountry.net><BR>> > > To: <cdt-l@backcountry.net><BR>> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2006 8:47 PM<BR>> > > Subject: cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 34<BR>> > ><BR>> >
><BR>> > > > Send cdt-l mailing list submissions to<BR>> > > > cdt-l@backcountry.net<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<BR>> > > > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l<BR>> > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<BR>> > > > cdt-l-request@backcountry.net<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > You can reach the person managing the list at<BR>> > > > cdt-l-owner@backcountry.net<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<BR>> > > > than "Re: Contents of cdt-l digest..."<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Today's Topics:<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > 1. Does using GPS diminish
the experience? (Paul Magnanti)<BR>> > > > 2. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Alistair and Gail Des Moulins)<BR>> > > > 3. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Remy Levin)<BR>> > > > 4. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Karen Somers)<BR>> > > > 5. Re: An alcohol stove for two (Ginny & Jim Owen)<BR>> > > > 6. Re: Does using GPS diminish the experience? (Chris)<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Message: 1<BR>> > > > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 10:14:31 -0800 (PST)<BR>> > > > From: Paul Magnanti <pmags@yahoo.com><BR>> > > > Subject: [cdt-l] Does using GPS diminish the experience?<BR>> > > > To: CDT MailingList
<cdt-l@backcountry.net><BR>> > > > Message-ID: <303684.40713.qm@web31806.mail.mud.yahoo.com><BR>> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > This type of discussion ends up being what I call<BR>> > > > "Thru-hiker angels on the head of a pin". Something<BR>> > > > that is only discussed on hiking forums and is<BR>> > > > theoretical. :)<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > In reality, whether you take a GPS or don't take a GPS<BR>> > > > is not going to diminish your experience. Take one,<BR>> > > > don't take one.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > The kind of experience you have on the the trail is<BR>> > > > what you put into the hike. The sunsets are still<BR>> > > >
awesome, the remoteness of the trail is still<BR>> > > > wonderful, the journey is still rewarding.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Just enjoy the hike one way or another. I did not take<BR>> > > > a GPS, friends of mine did. All of us had one hell of<BR>> > > > an experience.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > ************************************************************<BR>> > > > The true harvest of my life is intangible.... a little stardust<BR>> > > > caught, a portion of the rainbow I have clutched<BR>> > > > --Thoreau<BR>> > > > http://www.magnanti.com<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > ------------------------------<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Message: 2<BR>> > > >
Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 13:27:58 -0700<BR>> > > > From: "Alistair and Gail Des Moulins" <aandg@telusplanet.net><BR>> > > > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two<BR>> > > > To: <cdt-l@backcountry.net>, <kborski@yahoo.com><BR>> > > > Message-ID: <003801c7292c$55e21c10$528dba89@your4f1261a8e5><BR>> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";<BR>> > > > reply-type=original<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Gail and I used a Fat Pika alcohol stove during our 5 months on the<BR>>CDT<BR>> > > this<BR>> > > > year. See http://pbase.com/image/72011334/original for a photo of our<BR>> > > stove<BR>> > > > and stand in Wyoming's Great Basin.<BR>> > > > We used an MSR XGK white gas stove on our 6 month
thru hike of the PCT<BR>> > > in<BR>> > > > 2003.<BR>> > > > On the CDT on most days we had hot cereal and a hot drink for<BR>>breakfast<BR>> > > and<BR>> > > > cooked a meal and a hot drink for supper. We used between 5 and 6<BR>>ounces<BR>> > > of<BR>> > > > fuel per day depending on water temperature and other factors. Each<BR>>meal<BR>> > > and<BR>> > > > drink usually was 4 + cups of water. The stove would easily handle<BR>> > > boiling<BR>> > > 6<BR>> > > > cups of water and on a couple of nights we used it to melt snow but<BR>>that<BR>> > > > requires almost double the fuel (and that's, of course, true for any<BR>> > > stove).<BR>> > > > On the PCT with the MSR we could get 10 to 11 days cooking from
a<BR>>litre<BR>> > > (35<BR>> > > > oz) of white gas.<BR>> > > > On the CDT we did two 12 day sections without resupply (East Glacier<BR>>to<BR>> > > > Lincoln, and Dubois to Atlantic City, yes we are not fast hikers and<BR>>we<BR>> > > > wanted to have spare days in the Winds). On these 2 sections we<BR>>carried<BR>> > > six<BR>> > > > 12 oz bottles of HEET.<BR>> > > > For these 12 day loads the weight of six bottles of HEET and the Fat<BR>> > > Pika<BR>> > > > stove exceeded the weight of the MSR stove, screen + stove parts + 12<BR>> > > days<BR>> > > > of white gas that we would have carried had we had the MSR. After 3 or<BR>>4<BR>> > > > days the weight of systems would have been about the same and after<BR>>that<BR>>
> > the<BR>> > > > Alcohol system total weight is less than the corresponding MSR system<BR>> > > > weight.<BR>> > > > Prior to our CDT trip I did tests of fuel usage and boil times using<BR>>the<BR>> > > Fat<BR>> > > > Pika and the MSR. The Fat Pika used nearly double the volume of fuel<BR>> > > > compared to the MSR. The boil times of the Fat Pika were faster than<BR>>the<BR>> > > > MSR. Also water boiled faster using a larger diameter pot - so if you<BR>> > > take<BR>> > > > a 2 litre capacity pot, an 8" diameter pot will require less fuel than<BR>>a<BR>> > > 7"<BR>> > > > diameter one.<BR>> > > > I realised we'd be carrying a larger total weight of stove and fuel on<BR>>a<BR>> > > few<BR>> > > > days on the trip
if we used the Fat Pika instead of the MSR but<BR>> > > generally<BR>> > > > we'd be carrying less weight than the MSR.<BR>> > > > On balance, although our MSR had served us very well on the PCT, I<BR>> > > decided<BR>> > > > to take the Fat Pika on the CDT because we'd not even have to worry<BR>> > > about<BR>> > > > blocked jets, failing pump washers and leaking 'O' rings.<BR>> > > > On the CDT we found HEET was available at almost all town stops, white<BR>> > > gas<BR>> > > > was not so available and was usually in gallon containers when we saw<BR>> > it.<BR>> > > > On the PCT with the MSR, we'd usually find a 'hiker can' of white gas<BR>>in<BR>> > > > towns. If not we'd buy a gallon and leave the rest for following<BR>>hikers.<BR>> >
> > With only about 20 hikers going each way a year on the CDT this system<BR>> > > would<BR>> > > > not work so well and I think you'd end up buying a lot more gallons of<BR>> > > white<BR>> > > > gas.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > For more details on the Fat Pika stove see<BR>> > > > http://users.sisqtel.net/losthiker/pikastove/<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Alistair<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > ----- Original Message -----<BR>> > > > From: "Karen Somers" <kborski@yahoo.com><BR>> > > > To: <cdt-l@backcountry.net><BR>> > > > Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 8:48 PM<BR>> > > > Subject: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > > Ginny
wrote:<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > > "We never had to carry more than one<BR>> > > > > full 20 oz Pepsi bottle for the two of us."<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > > This brings up a topic that I am have a question<BR>> > > > > about......I'm looking for a two-person alcohol stove.<BR>> > > > > My past attempts to find an alcohol stove that will<BR>> > > > > cook a pot of food for two hikers were unsuccessful.<BR>> > > > > We've tried several different al. stove designs, but<BR>> > > > > it takes too much fuel to get a one liter plus pot of<BR>> > > > > water boiling. So, my husband and I have always used<BR>> > > > > white gas when we are cooking for two. It just proves<BR>> > > >
> more economical all the way around. However, we heard<BR>> > > > > that there was a new al. stove built for two (rumor at<BR>> > > > > the ADZ party). Ginny and others, what alcohol stove<BR>> > > > > design do you use for two people?<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > > Nocona<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > > __________________________________________________<BR>> > > > > Do You Yahoo!?<BR>> > > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around<BR>> > > > > http://mail.yahoo.com<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > ------------------------------<BR>> > > ><BR>>
> > > Message: 3<BR>> > > > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 13:06:04 -0800 (PST)<BR>> > > > From: Remy Levin <fellowship_of_yatzek@yahoo.com><BR>> > > > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two<BR>> > > > To: cdt-l@backcountry.net<BR>> > > > Message-ID: <20061226210604.31571.qmail@web52402.mail.yahoo.com><BR>> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > We used the same alcohol stove we use on the PCT on the CDT this<BR>>summer.<BR>> > > With over 7000 miles on it (it was purchased in hot springs, NC) It's<BR>>beat<BR>> > > up , but still works great. It has a capacity to hold about 2 ounces<BR>>of<BR>> > > Heet at a time, which was definitely enough for cooking 2+, sometimes<BR>> > > three<BR>>
> > liptons at a time.<BR>> > > > A few tips that save on gas and cook food faster: put the noodles in<BR>>the<BR>> > > water a couple min. before putting the pot on the fire. Always use a<BR>> > > windscreen and avoid windy spots as much as possible. Let the noodles<BR>>sit<BR>> > > for a few min. after the stove is out- they don't have to cook<BR>>completely<BR>> > > that way, as they will soften by soaking up water. plus, they'll be nice<BR>> > > and<BR>> > > al dente ;)<BR>> > > > As to fuel, we found that we seldom needed more than 20 oz. at a<BR>> > stretch.<BR>> > > On sections where fuel was a problem, or water was a problem we ate<BR>>cold,<BR>> > > which was a very refreshing change in diet.<BR>> > > > Cheers! Remy.<BR>> > > ><BR>>
> > > Alistair and Gail Des Moulins <aandg@telusplanet.net> wrote: Gail and<BR>>I<BR>> > > used a Fat Pika alcohol stove during our 5 months on the CDT this<BR>> > > > year. See http://pbase.com/image/72011334/original for a photo of our<BR>> > > stove<BR>> > > > and stand in Wyoming's Great Basin.<BR>> > > > We used an MSR XGK white gas stove on our 6 month thru hike of the PCT<BR>> > > in<BR>> > > > 2003.<BR>> > > > On the CDT on most days we had hot cereal and a hot drink for<BR>>breakfast<BR>> > > and<BR>> > > > cooked a meal and a hot drink for supper. We used between 5 and 6<BR>>ounces<BR>> > > of<BR>> > > > fuel per day depending on water temperature and other factors. Each<BR>>meal<BR>> > > and<BR>> > > >
drink usually was 4 + cups of water. The stove would easily handle<BR>> > > boiling<BR>> > > 6<BR>> > > > cups of water and on a couple of nights we used it to melt snow but<BR>>that<BR>> > > > requires almost double the fuel (and that's, of course, true for any<BR>> > > stove).<BR>> > > > On the PCT with the MSR we could get 10 to 11 days cooking from a<BR>>litre<BR>> > > (35<BR>> > > > oz) of white gas.<BR>> > > > On the CDT we did two 12 day sections without resupply (East Glacier<BR>>to<BR>> > > > Lincoln, and Dubois to Atlantic City, yes we are not fast hikers and<BR>>we<BR>> > > > wanted to have spare days in the Winds). On these 2 sections we<BR>>carried<BR>> > > six<BR>> > > > 12 oz bottles of HEET.<BR>> > > > For
these 12 day loads the weight of six bottles of HEET and the Fat<BR>> > > Pika<BR>> > > > stove exceeded the weight of the MSR stove, screen + stove parts + 12<BR>> > > days<BR>> > > > of white gas that we would have carried had we had the MSR. After 3 or<BR>>4<BR>> > > > days the weight of systems would have been about the same and after<BR>>that<BR>> > > the<BR>> > > > Alcohol system total weight is less than the corresponding MSR system<BR>> > > > weight.<BR>> > > > Prior to our CDT trip I did tests of fuel usage and boil times using<BR>>the<BR>> > > Fat<BR>> > > > Pika and the MSR. The Fat Pika used nearly double the volume of fuel<BR>> > > > compared to the MSR. The boil times of the Fat Pika were faster than<BR>>the<BR>> > > >
MSR. Also water boiled faster using a larger diameter pot - so if you<BR>> > > take<BR>> > > > a 2 litre capacity pot, an 8" diameter pot will require less fuel than<BR>>a<BR>> > > 7"<BR>> > > > diameter one.<BR>> > > > I realised we'd be carrying a larger total weight of stove and fuel on<BR>>a<BR>> > > few<BR>> > > > days on the trip if we used the Fat Pika instead of the MSR but<BR>> > > generally<BR>> > > > we'd be carrying less weight than the MSR.<BR>> > > > On balance, although our MSR had served us very well on the PCT, I<BR>> > > decided<BR>> > > > to take the Fat Pika on the CDT because we'd not even have to worry<BR>> > > about<BR>> > > > blocked jets, failing pump washers and leaking 'O' rings.<BR>> > > > On
the CDT we found HEET was available at almost all town stops, white<BR>> > > gas<BR>> > > > was not so available and was usually in gallon containers when we saw<BR>> > it.<BR>> > > > On the PCT with the MSR, we'd usually find a 'hiker can' of white gas<BR>>in<BR>> > > > towns. If not we'd buy a gallon and leave the rest for following<BR>>hikers.<BR>> > > > With only about 20 hikers going each way a year on the CDT this system<BR>> > > would<BR>> > > > not work so well and I think you'd end up buying a lot more gallons of<BR>> > > white<BR>> > > > gas.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > For more details on the Fat Pika stove see<BR>> > > > http://users.sisqtel.net/losthiker/pikastove/<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Alistair<BR>> > >
><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > ----- Original Message -----<BR>> > > > From: "Karen Somers"<BR>> > > > To:<BR>> > > > Sent: Monday, December 25, 2006 8:48 PM<BR>> > > > Subject: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > > Ginny wrote:<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > > "We never had to carry more than one<BR>> > > > > full 20 oz Pepsi bottle for the two of us."<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > > This brings up a topic that I am have a question<BR>> > > > > about......I'm looking for a two-person alcohol stove.<BR>> > > > > My past attempts to find an alcohol stove that will<BR>> > > > > cook a pot of food for two hikers were
unsuccessful.<BR>> > > > > We've tried several different al. stove designs, but<BR>> > > > > it takes too much fuel to get a one liter plus pot of<BR>> > > > > water boiling. So, my husband and I have always used<BR>> > > > > white gas when we are cooking for two. It just proves<BR>> > > > > more economical all the way around. However, we heard<BR>> > > > > that there was a new al. stove built for two (rumor at<BR>> > > > > the ADZ party). Ginny and others, what alcohol stove<BR>> > > > > design do you use for two people?<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > > Nocona<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > > __________________________________________________<BR>> > > > > Do You Yahoo!?<BR>>
> > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around<BR>> > > > > http://mail.yahoo.com<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > _______________________________________________<BR>> > > > cdt-l mailing list<BR>> > > > cdt-l@backcountry.net<BR>> > > > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > __________________________________________________<BR>> > > > Do You Yahoo!?<BR>> > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around<BR>> > > > http://mail.yahoo.com<BR>> > > > -------------- next part --------------<BR>> > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<BR>> > > >
URL:<BR>> > > http://mailman.hack.net/pipermail/cdt-<BR>> > > l/attachments/20061226/97f6b1b9/attach<BR>> > > ment-0001.html<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > ------------------------------<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Message: 4<BR>> > > > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 14:14:47 -0800 (PST)<BR>> > > > From: Karen Somers <kborski@yahoo.com><BR>> > > > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two<BR>> > > > To: cdt-l@backcountry.net<BR>> > > > Cc: Andy Somers <andy_somers@yahoo.com><BR>> > > > Message-ID: <418120.39514.qm@web56906.mail.re3.yahoo.com><BR>> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > After getting more great information from Alistair and<BR>> > > > Ginny, I have
been thinking about stove options FOR<BR>> > > > TWO all day. Here is some weight data I thought I'd<BR>> > > > share for any interested (this is helping me decide<BR>> > > > the best option). I am using the amount of fuel<BR>> > > > needed for the longest stretches, which Alistair<BR>> > > > reported to be 12 days.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Specific gravity for calculating fuel weights:<BR>> > > > HEET s.g. is 0.787<BR>> > > > white gas s.g. is 0.69<BR>> > > > car gas s.g. is 0.739<BR>> > > > denatured alcohol s.g. is 0.809<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Esbits weigh 0.5 oz each<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > ESBIT OPTION<BR>> > > > We each must carry a small cookpot and cook our<BR>> > > > dinners
separately. (It's not feasible to cook a<BR>> > > > two-person dinner with one Esbit tab, or even two<BR>> > > > tabs, because the pot has too large a surface area).<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > 2, 0.9 L titanium pots: 2 x 4.9 oz = 9.8 oz<BR>> > > > 12 days of Esbits for two (24 tabs): 0.5 oz x 24 = 12<BR>> > > > oz<BR>> > > > Two Esbit stoves: 2 x 0.5 oz = 1.0 oz<BR>> > > > Extra wind screen: 0.3 oz<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Total: 23.1 oz (1.4 lbs)<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > ALCOHOL STOVE OPTION<BR>> > > > This assumes one well-functioning stove that can<BR>> > > > really cook for two like the one Alistair described.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > 1, 2-L titanium pot: 8 oz<BR>> > > > 6,
12-oz bottles HEET: 56.6 oz fuel + 9 oz of bottle<BR>> > > > wt: 65.6<BR>> > > > (assumes 1.5 oz weight of bottle; you could reduce<BR>> > > > this by 2 oz using Gatorade bottles)<BR>> > > > Stove: 1 oz (assumed)<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Total: 74.6 oz (4.7 lbs)<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > WHITE GAS OPTION<BR>> > > > Using the MSR Whisperlite Intl'<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > 1, 2-L titanium pot: 8 oz<BR>> > > > 22 oz fuel bottle full: 15.1 oz gas + 15 oz bottle =<BR>> > > > 30.1<BR>> > > > stove: 10.8 oz<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Total: 48.9 oz (3.1 lbs)<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > It looks like Esbit wins hands down in the weight<BR>> > > >
contest. I don't mean to get into a pros and cons<BR>> > > > debate about these different types of cooking systems,<BR>> > > > because each certainly has them, but I was quite<BR>> > > > shocked that 12 days of Esbit use is 1.5 lbs lighter<BR>> > > > than white gas and 3.3 lbs lighter than HEET. We can<BR>> > > > carry 30 days of fuel at a time for still less than 12<BR>> > > > days of white gas or alcohol.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Despite the expense, I think we'll opt for Esbits.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Nocona<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > __________________________________________________<BR>> > > > Do You Yahoo!?<BR>> > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around<BR>> > > >
http://mail.yahoo.com<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > ------------------------------<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Message: 5<BR>> > > > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 17:34:56 -0500<BR>> > > > From: "Ginny & Jim Owen" <spiritbear2k@hotmail.com><BR>> > > > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two<BR>> > > > To: cdt-l@backcountry.net<BR>> > > > Message-ID: <BAY101-F27795C62815A78B6E01A2287C10@phx.gbl><BR>> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > I'm not sure where you're getting your weight numbers for the alcohol.<BR>> > > We<BR>> > > > boiled water for coffee in the morning (3/4 oz) and cooked dinner in<BR>>the<BR>> > > > evening (1.5 to 2 oz). Most stretches were
5-6 days between<BR>>resupplies<BR>> > > -<BR>> > > > one bottle of heet. A few were 8 days - so we used a 20 oz bottle.<BR>> > > That<BR>> > > > really was enough. We never ran out.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Ginny<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>> > > > http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > >From: Karen Somers <kborski@yahoo.com><BR>> > > > >Reply-To: cdt-l@backcountry.net<BR>> > > > >To: cdt-l@backcountry.net<BR>> > > > >CC: Andy Somers <andy_somers@yahoo.com><BR>> > >
> >Subject: Re: [cdt-l] An alcohol stove for two<BR>> > > > >Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 14:14:47 -0800 (PST)<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > >After getting more great information from Alistair and<BR>> > > > >Ginny, I have been thinking about stove options FOR<BR>> > > > >TWO all day. Here is some weight data I thought I'd<BR>> > > > >share for any interested (this is helping me decide<BR>> > > > >the best option). I am using the amount of fuel<BR>> > > > >needed for the longest stretches, which Alistair<BR>> > > > >reported to be 12 days.<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > >Specific gravity for calculating fuel weights:<BR>> > > > >HEET s.g. is 0.787<BR>> > > > >white gas s.g. is 0.69<BR>> > > >
>car gas s.g. is 0.739<BR>> > > > >denatured alcohol s.g. is 0.809<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > >Esbits weigh 0.5 oz each<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > >ESBIT OPTION<BR>> > > > >We each must carry a small cookpot and cook our<BR>> > > > >dinners separately. (It's not feasible to cook a<BR>> > > > >two-person dinner with one Esbit tab, or even two<BR>> > > > >tabs, because the pot has too large a surface area).<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > >2, 0.9 L titanium pots: 2 x 4.9 oz = 9.8 oz<BR>> > > > >12 days of Esbits for two (24 tabs): 0.5 oz x 24 = 12<BR>> > > > >oz<BR>> > > > >Two Esbit stoves: 2 x 0.5 oz = 1.0 oz<BR>> > > > >Extra wind screen: 0.3 oz<BR>> > > >
><BR>> > > > >Total: 23.1 oz (1.4 lbs)<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > >ALCOHOL STOVE OPTION<BR>> > > > >This assumes one well-functioning stove that can<BR>> > > > >really cook for two like the one Alistair described.<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > >1, 2-L titanium pot: 8 oz<BR>> > > > >6, 12-oz bottles HEET: 56.6 oz fuel + 9 oz of bottle<BR>> > > > >wt: 65.6<BR>> > > > >(assumes 1.5 oz weight of bottle; you could reduce<BR>> > > > >this by 2 oz using Gatorade bottles)<BR>> > > > >Stove: 1 oz (assumed)<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > >Total: 74.6 oz (4.7 lbs)<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > >WHITE GAS OPTION<BR>> >
> > >Using the MSR Whisperlite Intl'<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > >1, 2-L titanium pot: 8 oz<BR>> > > > >22 oz fuel bottle full: 15.1 oz gas + 15 oz bottle =<BR>> > > > >30.1<BR>> > > > >stove: 10.8 oz<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > >Total: 48.9 oz (3.1 lbs)<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > >It looks like Esbit wins hands down in the weight<BR>> > > > >contest. I don't mean to get into a pros and cons<BR>> > > > >debate about these different types of cooking systems,<BR>> > > > >because each certainly has them, but I was quite<BR>> > > > >shocked that 12 days of Esbit use is 1.5 lbs lighter<BR>> > > > >than white gas and 3.3 lbs lighter than HEET. We can<BR>>
> > > >carry 30 days of fuel at a time for still less than 12<BR>> > > > >days of white gas or alcohol.<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > >Despite the expense, I think we'll opt for Esbits.<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > >Nocona<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > >__________________________________________________<BR>> > > > >Do You Yahoo!?<BR>> > > > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around<BR>> > > > >http://mail.yahoo.com<BR>> > > > >_______________________________________________<BR>> > > > >cdt-l mailing list<BR>> > > > >cdt-l@backcountry.net<BR>> > > > >http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l<BR>> > > ><BR>> > >
> _________________________________________________________________<BR>> > > > The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes is here. Get all the<BR>> > scoop.<BR>> > > > http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > ------------------------------<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Message: 6<BR>> > > > Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 17:56:41 -0800 (PST)<BR>> > > > From: Chris <spur@mac.com><BR>> > > > Subject: Re: [cdt-l] Does using GPS diminish the experience?<BR>> > > > To: cdt-l@backcountry.net<BR>> > > > Message-ID: <28145358.1167184601944.JavaMail.root@m16><BR>> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > I for one am not ashamed to
say that I would probably be dead by<BR>> > > > now had I not had the help of a GPS on my long CDT hikes.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > But YMMV...<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Spur ;-)<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > http://www.artofthetrail.com<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > On Tue Dec 26 10:14:31 PST 2006, Paul Magnanti <pmags@yahoo.com><BR>> > > > wrote:<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > > This type of discussion ends up being what I call<BR>> > > > > "Thru-hiker angels on the head of a pin". Something<BR>> > > > > that is only discussed on hiking forums and is<BR>> > > > > theoretical. :)<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > > In reality,
whether you take a GPS or don't take a GPS<BR>> > > > > is not going to diminish your experience. Take one,<BR>> > > > > don't take one. The kind of experience you have on the the trail<BR>> > > > > is<BR>> > > > > what you put into the hike. The sunsets are still<BR>> > > > > awesome, the remoteness of the trail is still<BR>> > > > > wonderful, the journey is still rewarding.<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > > Just enjoy the hike one way or another. I did not take<BR>> > > > > a GPS, friends of mine did. All of us had one hell of<BR>> > > > > an experience.<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > > ************************************************************<BR>> > >
> > The true harvest of my life is intangible.... a little stardust<BR>> > > > > caught, a portion of the rainbow I have clutched<BR>> > > > > --Thoreau<BR>> > > > > http://www.magnanti.com<BR>> > > > > _______________________________________________<BR>> > > > > cdt-l mailing list<BR>> > > > > cdt-l@backcountry.net<BR>> > > > > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l<BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > > ><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > ------------------------------<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > _______________________________________________<BR>> > > > cdt-l mailing list<BR>> > > > cdt-l@backcountry.net<BR>> > > > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l<BR>> > >
><BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > End of cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 34<BR>> > > > *************************************<BR>> > ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > ------------------------------<BR>> ><BR>> > _______________________________________________<BR>> > cdt-l mailing list<BR>> > cdt-l@backcountry.net<BR>> > http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l<BR>> ><BR>> ><BR>> > End of cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 40<BR>> > *************************************<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>------------------------------<BR>><BR>>_______________________________________________<BR>>cdt-l mailing list<BR>>cdt-l@backcountry.net<BR>>http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l<BR>><BR>><BR>>End of cdt-l Digest, Vol 38, Issue 42<BR>>*************************************<BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></div></html>