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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=203592618-04102007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Thanks Jim. The issue becomes more complicated when "a
Congressionally Designated National Scenic Trail" becomes the focus of the
conversation. I know you are respectful of native America sites and concerns,
but for very valid reasons native Americans have concerns about the implications
of the "official" CDT. What I'm not sure I quite truly understand is the
disconnect between those that are not interested in the rationale provided
for a given route-sensitivity to local concerns, environmental, etc -but also
maintain that the true value of the CDT experience is to choose your own way
from Canada to Mexico.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=203592618-04102007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=203592618-04102007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>I also would like to reinforce that we sincerely appreciate the
dedication of the thru-hikers undertaking the CDT, they are only a very small
percentage of the overall user of the many segments of the Trail that are
designed to get more people out. Have your read Richard Louv's, Last Child in
the Woods, Dealing with Nature Deficit Disorder. I highly recommend
it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=203592618-04102007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=203592618-04102007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>I am not sure why you refer to the gutless bureaucracy as if it is
something other than dedicated individuals who are trying their best to
keep up with increased responsibilities and quickly diminishing resources. I
consider some of the land managers working on the Trail my friends and it is
unfortunate that you refer to them in that way.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=203592618-04102007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=203592618-04102007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Also, as I understand it, the Temple Pass conversation underway,
we appreciate your perspective, but it too is complicated for reasons that go
beyond the scope of this email.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=203592618-04102007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=203592618-04102007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>I hope you understand we have more in common than not and after
working on this project with my wife, Paula, for the last 14 years we have a
different world view of the importance and long term implications of what we are
doing. At the CDTA we believe The Trail Unites Us" and is something we hope will
bring all kinds of people-including you and Ginny together for the common good,
at a time when our country is desperate for something like
this.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=203592618-04102007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=203592618-04102007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Wish I could be with you at ALDHA, please pass on my best wishes
to all/</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial>Bruce Ward</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial>Executive Director</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial>Continental Divide Trail Alliance</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial>PO Box 628 </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial>Pine, CO 80470</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial>Tel. 303 838 3760</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial>Cell: 303 917 1476</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial>Fax: 303 838 3960</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial>Shipping Address:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial>CDTA</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial>13700 Highway 285</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial>Pine CO 80470</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>
<P class=style3 style="FONT-SIZE: 22px"><FONT face=Georgia>“<FONT size=3> I
firmly believe that if you follow a path that interests you, not to the
exclusion of ...cooperation with others, but with the strength of
conviction that you can move others by your own efforts, the chances are
you'll be a person worthy of your own respects. ”</FONT></FONT></P>
<P
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 11px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 5px; COLOR: #999999; PADDING-TOP: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">-
Neil Simon, (b. 1927)<BR>American playwright, screenwriter </P></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR tabIndex=-1>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> cdt-l-bounces@backcountry.net
[mailto:cdt-l-bounces@backcountry.net] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Ginny & Jim
Owen<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 04, 2007 8:53 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
cdt-l@backcountry.net<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [cdt-l] Mt.
Taylor<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><BR>Bruce - <BR>I think you should actually READ what I write before
you answer. I did NOT express disrespect for either the Navajo or their
religion. I DID express a lack of respect for the arguments that
have kept the CDT off Mt Taylor for so long. And for the gutlessness of
the bureaucracy. <BR> <BR>Now, I wonder how much you
really know about Mt Taylor? Do you know, for example, that there are
races run across the mountain? Or that it's used as a picnic and party
spot by the locals - including the Navajo and the Acoma? Or that it's a
local dayhike destination? Or any other use that one might find for a
mountain in their back yard? Telling me that thruhikers walking across Mt
Taylor would be any more disrespectful than what happens there on a regular
basis is utterly ridiculous. <BR> <BR>I also understand at least
as well as you that the bureaucracy is NOT likely to find the guts to overcome
their excessively PC mindset. <BR> <BR>As far as the native
Americans are concerned, I just spent 6 months doing a concentrated tour of many
of the "native American" archeological sites in the US and Canada. I damn
sure didn't do that out of a lack of respect for the various
cultures. If you want to find out where I stand on the subject, I'll be
doing a slideshow/workshop on that specific subject on Sunday afternoon at the
ALDHA Gathering. <BR> <BR>Now allow me to put on my trail
designer/construction/maintainer hat - if you build a trail that nobody
uses, then you've wasted the time, energy and money. Completing a "CDT"
(or any section of the CDT) that nobody will use just for the sake of completion
is neither a reasonable nor a worthwhile goal. Completing the "best
possible CDT" is both reasonable and worthwhile. "Best possible" does NOT
include 50 mile waterless sections - nor does it include 30 mile loops that
drop a hiker less than a mile from where they started - nor does it
include long roadwalks. Those are sections that thruhikers are
generally not willing to walk - and there are few, if any, others who will
use them either. I wonder how many people have actually walked the
route though the Chain of Craters? I know there are a few - but I'd bet
that it's less than 1% of thruhikers. Who else would use it?
<BR> <BR>But we've had this conversation before, haven't we?
<BR> <BR>At least one positive effect comes out of the poor trail decisions
- the hikers (you know - those people who are the only real client base
for what you do?) will be encouraged to continue the tradition of
"designing their own hikes" rather than blindly following the "official"
route. <BR> <BR>BTW - after our conversation last year we
didn't follow up on the Temple Pass route that we talked about. So - what
happened? Did the Forest Service get it's favored route - outside the
wilderness? Or is the argument still open? <BR> <BR>>From our
experience - both as hikers and trail builders - the Temple Pass
route would be very feasible. The trail on the south side of the pass
needs repair - but nothing major. The trail on the north side of the pass
needs some switchbacks installed in order to be usable by horses (and it would
be better for hikers as well ). But, the Forest Service notwithstanding,
there would be nothing in the way of major construction required to make
it a good route. <BR> <BR>I'll be gone for at least the next
week - first the Gathering, then hiking. Y'all play nice, y'hear?
<BR> <BR>Walk
softly,<BR>Jim<BR> <BR> <BR> <BR>-----------------------------------------------------------<BR>http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 11:23:46 -0600<BR>From: bruce@cdtrail.org<BR>To:
cdt-l@backcountry.net<BR>Subject: Re: [cdt-l] Mt. Taylor<BR><BR>
<META content="Microsoft SafeHTML" name=Generator>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=EC_187461617-03102007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>A lack of respect for native American cultures and sacred
areas will not help any of us who are trying to work through complex issues
with a variety of tribes and local residents. In fact it creates increased
opposition to the Trail. The posting below is very unfortunate and not at all
in the spirit of those of us who are trying to get local communities along the
CDT to become more enthusiastic about helping.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=EC_187461617-03102007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>The Forest Service and other land managers that are
striving for a completed CDT should be commended for the work that they do
trying to bring together local and national interests. This is difficult no
matter where you are, but especially difficult in the areas the Trail
traverses in New Mexico.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>Bruce Ward</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>Executive Director</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>Continental Divide Trail
Alliance</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>PO Box 628 </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>Pine, CO 80470</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>Tel. 303 838
3760</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>Cell: 303 917 1476</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>Fax: 303 838 3960</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>Shipping Address:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>CDTA</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>13700 Highway 285</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>Pine CO 80470</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>
<P class=EC_style3 style="FONT-SIZE: 22px"><FONT face=Georgia>“<FONT size=3> I
firmly believe that if you follow a path that interests you, not to the
exclusion of ...cooperation with others, but with the strength of
conviction that you can move others by your own efforts, the chances are
you'll be a person worthy of your own respects. ”</FONT></FONT></P>
<P
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; FONT-SIZE: 11px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 5px; COLOR: #999999; PADDING-TOP: 0px; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">-
Neil Simon, (b. 1927)<BR>American playwright, screenwriter </P></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV><BR>
<DIV class=EC_OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
<HR>
<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> cdt-l-bounces@backcountry.net
[mailto:cdt-l-bounces@backcountry.net] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Ryan
Jordan<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 03, 2007 8:05 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
cdt-l@backcountry.net<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [cdt-l] Mt.
Taylor<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Clearly, lots going on politically down in that area. Thanks for
the education everyone and forgive my dogmatic approach!<BR>Ryan<BR><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=EC_gmail_quote>On 10/3/07, <B class=EC_gmail_sendername>Ginny
& Jim Owen </B><<A
href="mailto:spiritbear2k@hotmail.com">spiritbear2k@hotmail.com</A>>
wrote:</SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=EC_gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">
<DIV>Dick - <BR>The CDT has never been officially routed over Mt Taylor -
they procrastinated on designating the trail that way because the mountain
is one of the 4 sacred mountains of the Navajo. I lost respect for
that argument in 1999 when we were sitting at the top of Taylor and a group
of Navajos topped the mountain - on their bigass ATV's. I've since
gained a little knowledge about the Navajo - and lost a lot of respect for
the gutlessness of the Forest Service - and the gubmint in general. Of
course, since I worked as a contractor for da gubmint for 40+ years, I've
had lots of time and opportunity to lose whatever respect I ever had for the
bureaucracy. <BR> <BR>In any case, last year they routed hikers
along the road around Taylor when they closed the Forest - and allowed Tom B
to put out water caches. Suspicion is that they did that as a test
case as much as for the fire danger represented by the hikers. But
then - I'm a cynic, too. <BR> <BR>Yes - the Mt Taylor route that
we walked in '99 had springs - and in '06 there was a rumor that the springs
were still flowing. But with the Forest closed, only a few hikers
managed to go that way. One question that occurs is - how many of the
SOBO's went over Taylor - and what was the water situation later in the
year? <BR> <BR>Walk
softly,<BR>Jim<BR>-----------------------------------------------------------<BR><A
href="http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/"
target=_blank>http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/</A><SPAN class=q>
<BR><BR><BR><BR>Hi Jim: I must have missed something. Did the Forest Service
route the trail around Taylor? I remember Gooseberry spring at the base and
two others just the other side of Taylor (within a days walk) that were
flowing water so cold you could chew it. Does the CDT still use T77 up and
over Mt. Taylor? --Dick E. Bird <BR><BR></SPAN>
<HR>
Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Café. <A
href="http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline"
target=_blank>Stop by
today!</A></DIV><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>cdt-l
mailing list<BR><A
href="mailto:cdt-l@backcountry.net">cdt-l@backcountry.net</A><BR><A
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target=_blank>http://mailman.hack.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l</A><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR
clear=all><BR>-- <BR>Ryan Jordan<BR>Publisher<BR>Backpacking Light<BR><A
href="http://www.backpackinglight.com/"
target=_blank>http://www.backpackinglight.com/ </A><BR>USA Toll-Free
+1-888-362-0999 </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
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