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<blockquote type="cite"><font size="2">Many times you can verify the
inaccuracy by plotting the trace on Google Earth, but other times the
tree cover is to dense to see the actual trail.</font></blockquote>
True enough.<br>
<br>
BTW, FWIW, TopoFusion may be preferable to using Google Earth for this
sort of thing. TF offers access to high-resolution color aerial photos,
which are consistently as good or better resolution than the GE-based
satellite images. A fair amount of GE imagery has yet to be updated to
the highest resolution standard possible, and this lower quality
imagery tends to be useless for identifying trails and other less
obvious terrain features. TopoFusion also allows you to quickly switch
back and forth between aerial photos and topographic maps (or to blend
the two tilesets), so you can see what each resource has to say about a
particular point of interest while you're attempting to draw a route
line, or do preliminary recon, or whatever. It's also quite a bit less
bandwidth-intensive than Google Earth, especially with tileset caching
turned on.<br>
<br>
When it comes to creating your own route or GPS track, TopoFusion is
the proverbial key to the kindgom, in my experience. The amount of
good, pre-trip beta you can generate with this program is just
phenomenal. <br>
<a href="http://www.topofusion.com"><br>
www.topofusion.com</a> (Shameless plug; the program's developer is
also a trailbuilder on the Arizona Trail and GET.)<br>
<br>
- bf<br>
<br>
<br>
Ken Powers wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:8564C0B345644DD1BE6125AC0FAF10DF@Desktop2008"
type="cite">
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<div><font size="2">As another hiker who has kept detailed traces of
long trails I have to disagree with Blisterfree. I have drawn very
detailed maps of trails by tracing maps. When I loaded those maps onto
my gps and walked the trail I found numerous occasions where the map is
not accurate. I am not talking about the inaccuracies of satellite
tracking here. Sometimes the trail has changed from the originally
mapped trail. Other times It was just drawn wrong originally and has
never been corrected. Many times you can verify the inaccuracy by
plotting the trace on Google Earth, but other times the tree cover is
to dense to see the actual trail. I would like to believe Google Earth
is accurate, but I know of one river that runs up the side of a canyon
wall on Google Earth.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="2">The real question remains - How accurate does the
trail have to be traced to be of value? Don't be like those people in
Oregon blindly following their GPS. Use some common sense out there.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="2">Ken</font></div>
<div><font size="2">www gottawalk com</font></div>
<blockquote
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<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">-----
Original Message ----- </div>
<div
style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0%; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;"><b>From:</b>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" title="blisterfree@yahoo.com"
href="mailto:blisterfree@yahoo.com">Brett</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" title="cdt-l@backcountry.net"
href="mailto:cdt-l@backcountry.net">CDT</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b>
Monday, January 04, 2010 5:12 PM</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [Cdt-l] GPS and TOPO! ready files (based on Jonathan's Google,
Earth file)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
The "reliability" of a GPS track has less to do with whether or not it
was collected in the field, and more about how accurate it is. It's
certainly possible to produce an accurate, field-worthy track by
drawing it on a computer first, and Jonathan's data is really very good
in this regard - have a look at his hand-drawn line overlayed on the
topos for the Middle Fork of the Gila, for instance - it's dead on. The
issue, instead, is more about which route line Jonathan has drawn vs
which route the hiker intends to follow. As Jonathan has said, his data
isn't entirely up-to-date or comprehensive, and that's understandable.
The GPS track thing is really just a by-product of the mapping
resources available for the CDT, and the existing resources are still a
work in progress. For one, they're decentralized and not all of it is
available online. It'd be nice to have the entire official route of the
CDT plus all of the commonly used alternate routes online, on a single
web page, viewable on a single map or in a single fileset, with
pick-and-choose options for importing to GPS, TOPO!, etc. This is
certainly possible, but it'll likely take some teamwork and
collaboration to pull it off.<br>
<br>
BTW, aren't Out of Order's tracks also hand-drawn (how well drawn is
it)? The only field-gathered data set I'm aware of is/was the
Backpacker Magazine project's effort, but I'm not sure what the status
on that is. Frankly it'd be a lot easier to generate a reasonably
accurate and comprehensive "GIS" of the CDT by referring to existing
resources (maps, guidebook descriptions) and hand drawing a data set
using Google Earth or TOPO!<br>
<br>
- blisterfree<br>
<br>
Jack Haskel wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:E7B38437-D038-495A-8CCA-89B9463F2734@gmail.com" type="cite">I'm
trying to follow all of this GPS, track log, and mapping stuff. In
fact, I just bought my GPS and am looking to load some maps and tracks.
Thanks for trying to explain it all in clear detail. But dang it's
confusing! A few questions and comments... It seems great that people
have now split the tracks into GPS loadable segments. It seems that
Jonathan's track isn't reliable though, as it wasn't collected in the
field, but drawn on a computer. Why use Jonathan's info over Out of
Order's track? Anyone loading either track over the free maps from <a
href="http://GPSFileDepot.com" moz-do-not-send="true">GPSFileDepot.com</a>?
I'm trying that way instead of buying the Garmin 100k maps.
<div><br>
</div>
<div> My head is spinning, </div>
<div> Jack</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Jan 4, 2010, at 1:13 PM, Jonathan Ley wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">The Google Earth track is
just a set of GPS points. You can overlay them onto any map - either a
satellite view in Google earth, or 1:24,000 USGS quads, or 1:100,000
maps, or whatever... I don't know how Garmin sources their topographic
maps, but the resolution will depend on that, not the track file. <br>
<br>
As for the resolution of the track itself... that depends on how many
points are placed to make up the track. The section in northern MT is a
lot more "fine", the rest of it is rather rough. Also, just keep in
mind again, that this hasn't been updated (at least by me) for some
time, so there will be places where that track doesn't conform to the
actual route on the ground. I just did the .kmz file for "fun" and have
no intentions of keeping it updated regularly. <br>
<br>
-Jonathan<br>
<br>
Eric Whte wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:830733.71326.qm@web65502.mail.ac4.yahoo.com" type="cite">
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<div
style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div>Let me change my previous rhetorical question to a real
one: Will the uploaded Google Earth map have the same resolution
(information) as the Garmin 1:100,000 TOPO US map or its equivalent?
Eric<br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br>
<div
style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font
face="Tahoma" size="2">
<hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b>
Jonathan Ley <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:jonathan@phlumf.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><jonathan@phlumf.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cdt-l@backcountry.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">cdt-l@backcountry.net</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sun,
January 3, 2010 10:40:10 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re:
[Cdt-l] GPS and TOPO! ready files (based on Jonathan's Google, Earth
file)<br>
</font><br>
Just a few comments on this...<br>
<br>
As Blisterfree mentions below, part of the idea was that anyone could
take the .kmz file I created and edit / personalize it. I originally
drew the kmz route about 4 years ago, and had only rudimentary tools at
the time. It involved a lot of exporting, reformatting and importing
data, and a bit of simple .kml coding. <br>
<br>
Now, there is a great kml/kmz editor built right into Google Earth.
Anyone with a computer & the bandwidth (both personal time &
Internet speed) can refine the route, add links to their trailjournal,
add alternate routes, etc. etc. etc... The reason the route is more
refined in northern MT is because I did more work on that section a
couple years ago using the GE editor - drew the route more accurately,
added alternates, added a few placemark notes, and links to photos on
my website). I've had intentions of doing the rest of the route
similarly, but have had too many other priorities. <br>
<br>
Thanks for all the kudos... I have to pass on a lot of that to all the
hikers who send back info each year. The maps stay fresh because of all
the feedback. Right now, I'm searching for the bandwidth to complete
the 2010 updates... as a new homeowner who just spent the past 3 days
painting a ceiling and going completely stir crazy, I'm wondering how
exactly this is going to work... but I'm sure I'll get it figured out
:-)<br>
<br>
-Jonathan<br>
<br>
<br>
Brett wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">Yep, the data is all verbatim from
Jonathan's KMZ file. I'm not sure, but it looks like Jonathan may be
adding in alternate routes from the northern terminus southward.
Montana shows a lot of these, for instance, but few if any south of
there, and much of the "main track" in WY, CO, and NM is presumably
templated around what Jonathan actually walked, ie some of it is surely
out of date in terms of defining a "main" or "most popular" route.
Based on his website description it looks like JL may be accepting
"donations" of additional data, which could be added to his file and
then filter downward from there. <br>
<br>
My main intent with the GPX files was to offer the two (nobo and sobo)
versions of a universally GPS-friendly single-file set of track
segments for the whole trail, that could be uploaded once prior to a
thru-hike and referred to whenever needed, without the need to upload
additional files during the hike due to storage capacity issues. In the
jungle of various GPS data sets available in cyberspace, this seemed to
be a niche that hadn't yet been filled. The compromise with such a
single-file approach will always be the unsatisfactory answer to the
question of which route to offer. My intent is not to answer this, but
if the trail community can settle on something (perhaps the CDTA route
except where unpopular and little-used?) then that might present the
best possible answer for now.<br>
<br>
- bf<br>
<br>
Rick Ostheimer wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre>These posts from Jonathan Ley's maps are great, but note that the
southern terminus for NM is showing as Antelope Wells. This was one of
the two southern terminii when Ley hiked, but now I understand the
"official" terminus is Crazy Cook. I also understand that Antelope
Wells is to be avoided due to drug smuggling and illegal immigration
activity.
Handlebar
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