Well said Jim. Thanks!!<br><br>I've only walked NM so far, but thank goodness for all the cattle water through that state. It was great!!<br><br>When I go to town, I'll have my burger cooked medium with all the fixin's. :-)<br>
<br>La Ventana Steak House in Grants, NM is not mentioned in any info I had about that town, but I asked some locals about the best place to get a steak in town and they directed me to this hidden jewel. I may not have gone inside from the looks of the building on the outside, but once inside, it was very nice....and I had the best steak I've had in years there. La Ventana Steak House was off any main roads, so you wouldn't find it without asking. The place was packed full of locals too.<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 11:20 PM, Jim and_or Ginny Owen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:spiriteagle99@hotmail.com">spiriteagle99@hotmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><tt><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Brett wrote:</span></tt></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><b><i><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">>Mags raises the question of what constitutes a reasonable compromise.</span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><b><i><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">>Since everything is connected, we go insane attempting to weed out all</span></i></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><br>
<b><i><span style="font-family: 'Courier New';">></span></i></b><tt><b><i>the activities we engage in that might contribute to sullying the</i></b></tt><b><i><br><b><span style="font-family: 'Courier New';">></span></b><tt>landscape in some way. The cow thing is front and center on a CDT hike,</tt></i></b><tt></tt></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><b><i><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">> though.</span></i></b><tt><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></tt></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><tt><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></tt></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><tt><span style="font-size: 10pt;">This subject hasn’t come up for a while.<span> </span>Last time was during Brian </span></tt></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><tt><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Robinson’s Calendar-year-Triple-Crown hike. And I’m gonna give pretty much </span></tt></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><tt><span style="font-size: 10pt;">the same answer that I gave then.<span> </span></span></tt></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><tt><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></tt></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><tt><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Back then, someone (NOT Brian) posted this: </span></tt></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><tt><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></tt></p><pre><b><i><span style="font-family: 'Courier New';">>Having sucked water out of hoofprints at thoroughly trashed springs in </span></i></b></pre>
<pre><b><i><span style="font-family: 'Courier New';">>cattle country along the PCT, I have to disagree that cattle are </span></i></b></pre><pre><b><i><span style="font-family: 'Courier New';">>somehow "entitled".</span></i></b></pre>
<pre><b><i><span style="font-family: 'Courier New';">>On private property, yes, I am the intruder and as a guest of the </span></i></b></pre><pre><b><i><span style="font-family: 'Courier New';">>property owner, have no complaint.<span> </span>However, government land </span></i></b></pre>
<pre><b><i><span style="font-family: 'Courier New';">>(particularly National Forests) I consider to be my property.<span> </span>Allowing </span></i></b></pre><pre><b><i><span style="font-family: 'Courier New';">>cattle to tear it up is mismanagement as far as I am concerned.<span> </span>They </span></i></b></pre>
<pre><b><i><span style="font-family: 'Courier New';">>were not there first.</span></i></b> </pre><pre> </pre><pre>And my answer (slightly modified here for clarity) was as follows: </pre><pre> </pre><pre>We did real well up to this point - but I think we just parted company.</pre>
<pre>First because, at least last year (2000), there were only two places on </pre><pre>the PCT that even approached the "lack" of water quality on much of the </pre><pre>CDT.<span> </span>One of them was the spring south of Walker Pass that we know only </pre>
<pre>by reputation cause we didn't go there (it was a mile or more off trail). </pre><pre>The other was the stock tank on the Hat Creek Rim.<span> </span>We didn't use that </pre><pre>either - our planning/water management was better than that.<span> </span>Either of </pre>
<pre>those would have been a "reasonable" water source on parts of the CDT in </pre><pre>1999.</pre><pre> </pre><pre>But the real point is that whether it's good, bad or indifferent, </pre><pre>cattle-trampled, duck-shit filled, elk-stirred, brown, green, silver,</pre>
<pre>scuzzy or whatever -- a majority of the water sources on the CDT - and </pre><pre>some of those on the PCT - were built and are maintained specifically for </pre><pre>the cattle.<span> </span>And if the cattle disappear, most of those water sources </pre>
<pre>will also disappear.<span> </span></pre><pre> </pre><pre>There are places along the CDT where the water sources are being removed </pre><pre>because the NPS, USFS, BLM or other agencies have decided that since </pre>
<pre>there are no cattle, it's not worth maintaining them.<span> </span>I don't care how </pre><pre>you feel about cattle - or even whether you're a meat eater or not - the </pre><pre>cattle are your ticket (and sometimes your guides) to the water sources.</pre>
<pre>On the CDT, hikers have to share those water sources with the critters </pre><pre>that the water rightfully belongs to - whether cattle or horses or ... </pre><pre>whatever.<span> </span>Say "Thank you" to the cattle because, to a large degree, </pre>
<pre>they provide the only incentive to keep the water sources open and </pre><pre>therefore make it possible for us to hike.</pre><pre> </pre><pre>I'm gonna make another comment here - I've heard<span> </span>a lot of people rant </pre>
<pre>about how the USFS mismanages their responsibilities.<span> </span>To some degree </pre><pre>it's true - but it's not nearly as bad as some people would have you </pre><pre>believe.<span> </span>And frankly, I've rarely heard any of those complainers come </pre>
<pre>up with either reasonable or viable alternatives.<span> </span>They're generally so </pre><pre>narrowly focused that their solutions fall under the "easy answer, one-</pre><pre>size-fits-all" category and create major problems for everyone else – </pre>
<pre>generally without even solving the original problem.<span> </span>One-size-fits-all </pre><pre>solutions only fit one person, one viewpoint, one concern.<span> </span>And they </pre><pre>ALWAYS leave a mess for the rest of the world to clean up.</pre>
<pre> </pre><pre>Some years ago, there was a couple who made a video about the CDT - and </pre><pre>they expressed long, loud complaints about their environmental concerns. </pre><pre>In 6 months on the trail, we found exactly one (count it carefully – </pre>
<pre>ONE) place where their complaint was valid.<span> </span>In every other instance, </pre><pre>their complaints were either invalid - or no longer valid.<span> </span>For example, </pre><pre>a lot of people complain about over-grazed public land - and so did </pre>
<pre>they.<span> </span>Fact is, in 1999, we saw two (count'em - TWO) places in six </pre><pre>months that were overgrazed.<span> </span>One of them was a private lot near </pre><pre>Anaconda, the other was the Tierra Amarilla in New Mexico.<span> </span>Neither was </pre>
<pre>public land.<span> </span>There are reasons for that, but those who don't want to be </pre><pre>confused by facts generally don't look for them. </pre><pre> </pre><pre>Oh yeah -- historically, "they" (the cattle) were there first - at least </pre>
<pre>as far as the CDT and long distance hiking is concerned.<span> </span>The cattle </pre><pre>have been there since long before the War Between the States (i.e. – the </pre><pre>War of Northern Agression for those from the South).<span> </span>I don't think you </pre>
<pre>can claim the same for the CDT - or even the Forest Service.</pre><pre> </pre><pre>OK – having just read that – and modified a few (VERY few) words – it’s </pre><pre>the same answer I’ll give today because the situation hasn’t materially </pre>
<pre>changed.<span> </span>If you’re a CDT hiker, then you need to be thankful for those </pre><pre>cattle, cause without them your water sources simply wouldn’t be there </pre><pre>for much, if not most, of the trail. Having hiked the bootheel route, I </pre>
<pre>can tell you that the first “natural” water source is in the Burro </pre><pre>Mountains – well over 100 trail miles north of the border.<span> </span>Everything up </pre><pre>to that point is specifically cattle related. How much water can you </pre>
<pre>carry?<span> </span>If the cattle aren’t there (and therefore the water sources </pre><pre>aren’t there), when you wussies put out your water caches, what are you </pre><pre>gonna do when you miss one – or when it’s been raided by the illegals (or </pre>
<pre>maybe even your fellow hikers)? </pre>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Again, Brett wrote: </font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><i><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">>And then we go into a CDT trail town and order a burger and </span></b></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><i><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">>rave about it. Nothing wrong with that, at least for the person who</span></b></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><i><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">>sees it as just one more unavoidable consequence of modern living. But</span></b></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><i><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">>my leg would twitch a little bit, just as it does when I read about</span></b></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><i><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">>burger rapture on the cdt-l. This is just my little pushback is all.</span></b></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><i><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">>Anyway, we all love windmills on a droughty stretch of trail, right! So</span></b></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><i><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">>let's forget about taking my bait anyplace lower, or higher for that</span></b></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><i><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';">>matter, and ruminate on all the ways the ranching industry makes the</span></b></i><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New';"><br>
<i><b><span style="font-family: 'Courier New';">></span></b></i><tt><b><i>hiking community what it is. </i></b></tt></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">My “War with cattle” started on the AT in 1992 and continued through most of Montana </font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">on our 1999 CDT thru.<span> </span>Until I realized the debt I owed to those silly critters.<span> </span>The rest of </font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">that hike was a reinforcement of the realities of CDT thruhiking.<span> But both during and after </span></font></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"><span>the "War", I still ate their cousins, uncles, etc. </span></font></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Since then I’ve done some serious thinking about the historic role of cattle, not only in relation </font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">to the CDT, but also with respect to the development of the US, the trails and the civilization </font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">that makes it possible for us (ALL of us) to hike through that country.<span> </span>But y'all REALLY don't </font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">want me to go there right now. 30" of global warming on the ground and more on the way - </font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">and I've got cabin fever. </font></p>
<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"> </span><br>
<font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">Walk softly,<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"></span></font></font><br>
<font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman">Jim<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana;"></span></font></font><br>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt;"><br><br><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><a href="http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/" target="_blank">http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/</a></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font></p><br><br><a href="http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/" target="_blank">http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/</a><br><br> </div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>_<br>-_-_-_-_- _ o<br>_-_-_- _ _-\<,_<br>-_-_--- _(_)/ (_) Stumpknocker<br>