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    I'm sorry but I find all that hard to believe. &nbsp; On occasion, I use
    a mp3 player and even with the volume set high, I can still hear
    noises around me, including rattle snakes. &nbsp;&nbsp; The only place I'd be
    reluctant to listen is griz country.&nbsp; Joggers and cyclist get killed
    because either they're not paying. attention, or the driver isn't. &nbsp;
    <br>
    <br>
    Sly<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    On 12/4/2010 11:12 AM, Steve McAllister wrote:
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:AANLkTimGwcpFxBugKBmLvUpszevNEe3sz+Our47XuNQ7@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">I agree with Jonathan,<br>
      <br>
      I have never worn headphones when hiking. I have had a little
      radio that I listened to in camp at times.<br>
      <br>
      I once witnessed a guy get hit by a train when he couldn't here it
      coming because of his ipod/walkman/whatever.<br>
      Joggers and bicyclists often get killed because they don't here
      the cars that they cross paths with.<br>
      <br>
      I watched a friend almost get run over by a tugboat when he got
      careless in his kayak and drifted into a shipping channel while
      listening to his IPod.<br>
      <br>
      Not that you have that much danger on the trail, but maybe you
      might miss the sound of someone's cry for help, a rattlesnakes
      rattle, an ATV or snowmobile riding up your ass, ...<br>
      <br>
      I like the various sounds around me when I hike and wouldn't want
      to miss any of them.<br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Jonathan
        Ley <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:jonathan@phlumf.com">jonathan@phlumf.com</a>&gt;</span>
        wrote:<br>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
          0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
          padding-left: 1ex;">
          <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
            <div>Just a couple more points of interest...</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>I agree people shouldn't be mandated to use/wear/carry
              anything out there. Hike naked for all I care (it can be
              liberating ;-). People should just understand their own
              limits and the limits of technology. All I'd ask is that
              people be educated about themselves and their tools.
              Whatever a spot costs, I think that $ would be better
              invested in a wilderness first aid course. Or buy both if
              you want to.&nbsp;</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>Just remember that unless you're hiking naked, you are
              relying on technology out there. Just because it's not
              electronic doesn't mean it's not technology.
              Silicon-impregnated nylon doesn't seem to offend anybody's
              sensibilities, so why does a gps or a spot? True, there's
              a big difference between some thing can transmit/receive
              to the outside world, and something which can't... But I
              think what matters most is how we perceive these things in
              our own minds. The spell of wilderness isn't broken when I
              look at or rely on my technologically-advanced backpack,
              so why should it be broken when I press a button on a
              gadget?</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>As for being wired... My biggest "old codger gripe" is
              about iPods and radios out there. They're amazingly
              ubiquitous on the trail, and I just don't get it. For me,
              the best part of a long hike is being immersed in it, with
              all my senses attuned to the world around... Letting my
              thoughts develop naturally as a result. When I have
              something plugged into my ear, I'm suddenly "somewhere
              else"; not only aurally, but mentally. At home, I listen
              to my iPod a lot (podcasts, music), but out there? I'd
              rather listen to a hundred miles of silence. To me, an
              ipod is a lot more intrusive than a spot, which sits in
              your backpack untouched 98% of the time. Anyway, I know
              people hike for all kinds of reasons, so I don't really
              want to criticize the iPod-wearing masses - its their hike
              to hike.&nbsp;<br>
              <br>
              Jonathan</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div><br>
              On Dec 3, 2010, at 10:08 PM, Jim and_or Ginny Owen &lt;<a
                moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:spiriteagle99@hotmail.com" target="_blank">spiriteagle99@hotmail.com</a>&gt;
              wrote:<br>
              <br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <div>
                Jonathon - <br>
                Those exact words were&nbsp;the battle cry in 1997 over cell
                phones.&nbsp; They started a flame war that <br>
                went on for months, generated something over 6000 posts
                and made more enemies than George <br>
                Bush has.&nbsp; <br>
                &nbsp;<br>
                The difference is simple ...and subtle.&nbsp; There are
                those, like Mags and me and Ginny, who understand <br>
                that the freedom of a thruhike is liimited if one
                carries a lifeline to the outside world, if you're
                willing <br>
                to split your mind, your life, and your hike between two
                worlds. You can deny that <br>
                if you wish, you can carry a SPOT, or a GPS or a cell
                phone is you want.&nbsp; I don't care what anyone else <br>
                does in that respect.&nbsp; But as has been said before, it
                starts with the argument, progresses to an attitude <br>
                that it won't affect ones thruhke, then slides into an
                expectation that one MUST carry (whatever) in order <br>
                to be "safe".&nbsp; &nbsp; And then hardens into anattitude that
                those who don't/won't &nbsp;"carry" are irresponsible, <br>
                selfish, stupid, unsafe and a whole gaggle of other
                negative adjectives. <br>
                &nbsp;<br>
                And&nbsp;some of that may or may not be true.&nbsp; But what is
                also true is that if one is "checking in" every day - or
                <br>
                every week - on a "schedule" with the specter of dealing
                with SAR if one fails to do so, then it WILL affect <br>
                the hike. And it won't make it any safer, because that
                check-in won't stop the slide on the snow that breaks <br>
                ones leg or the tree branch that falls and hits you or
                the bear attack that leaves you bleeding.&nbsp; Not that I <br>
                know of ANY thruhiker ever enountering that last
                situation - &nbsp;it's just something many people imagine.&nbsp; <br>
                &nbsp;<br>
                The other side of the coin is that those who "carry"
                never know what it is that they've missed. Most of <br>
                them think that their hike is just as good as everyone
                else's.&nbsp; Maybe for them, it is.&nbsp; But I seriously doubt <br>
                it.&nbsp; And I know that their hike would be unsatisfactory
                for me. <br>
                &nbsp;<br>
                Personally, I once owned a GPS.&nbsp; After using it in
                Alaska for navigation (just once) and then using it to <br>
                waypoint water sources in New Mexico for those who
                apparently can't find them on their own, I sent it <br>
                home from Lordsburg.&nbsp; After finishing the CDT I gave it
                away.&nbsp; It was a time waster with respect to navigation <br>
                and it wasn't worth carrying the weight.&nbsp; <br>
                &nbsp;<br>
                We also carried a cell phone on the AT and PCT this
                year.&nbsp; Didn't do a damn thing for us except increase <br>
                the pack weight.&nbsp; <br>
                &nbsp;<br>
                On the PCT last year, I tore the meniscus in my right
                knee just north of Walker Pass.&nbsp; One of the other hikers
                <br>
                had a SPOT and offered to call me a helicopter.&nbsp; I think
                I shocked her when&nbsp;I told her that I'd rather crawl the
                <br>
                9&nbsp;or&nbsp;10 miles to the highway than do that.&nbsp; My attitude
                is that if you get yourself into the situation, and then
                depend <br>
                on&nbsp;technology to get you out, then you have no business
                being out there in the first place. <br>
                &nbsp;<br>
                For better or worse, I'm a dinosaur.&nbsp; I live by a
                different set of values than many of todays hikers.&nbsp; And
                I understand <br>
                Ed Abbey's words completely.&nbsp; I am willing to accept the
                consequences if necessary.&nbsp; That means that I'm better <br>
                prepared than those who do "carry" in both training and
                attitude.&nbsp; I've done the First Aid and Navigation
                courses.&nbsp; <br>
                We do the planning so we'll know what the alternatives
                are at any given point on the trail and we carry maps
                that <br>
                will show us how/where to bail if it becomes necessary.&nbsp;
                How many other hikers&nbsp; do so?&nbsp; <br>
                &nbsp;<br>
                Y'all realize, I hope, I haven't actually hiked "solo in
                nearly 20 years - and not likely I will again.&nbsp; I would
                if necessary <br>
                but Ginny would shoot me if I left her behind.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<img
                  moz-do-not-send="true" src="" style="border-style:
                  none; vertical-align: text-bottom;" title="Smile"
                  alt="Smile" height="19" width="19"><br>
                &nbsp;<br>
                But our attitude - that&nbsp;the freedom, the solitude is
                worth the risk - after all these years, that still
                remains.&nbsp; The obsessive <br>
                safety culture that most of this country lives with is a
                form of self-delusion, but I won't beat that horse
                either right now. <br>
                &nbsp;<br>
                In any case, I'm not gonna tell anyone to "carry" or
                not.&nbsp; Nor will I give you all the arguments against.&nbsp;
                Those who <br>
                understand (and there seem to be a few here - as I would
                expect) will have a different experience than those who
                <br>
                don't. But I will tell you that if you expect me to
                "carry" you'll be disappointed.&nbsp; &nbsp; <br>
                &nbsp;<br>
                Walk softly,<br>
                Jim<br>
                <br>
                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/" target="_blank">http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/</a><br>
                <br>
                <br>
                &nbsp;<br>
                <hr>
                Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 08:48:20 -0800<br>
                From: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:jonathan@phlumf.com" target="_blank">jonathan@phlumf.com</a><br>
                To: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:cdt-l@backcountry.net" target="_blank">cdt-l@backcountry.net</a><br>
                Subject: Re: [Cdt-l] Fwd: See SPOT run...<br>
                <br>
                I'm not sure I understand the animosity to technology...
                I mean, goretex, nylon, pop-tarts... they're all only
                possible because of very complex technology. So are all
                the maps and other trail navigation information anyone
                produces. As for being connected - people have online
                journals they update at each town stop - sometimes each
                day. They have cell phones... Isn't a SPOT just a better
                implementation of a cell/satellite phone? People don't
                complain too much about being connected via e-mail or
                cell phones (well, some do), so what magical threshold
                does a SPOT cross? Should we all be wearing animal
                skins, and eating game we shot with our bow &amp; arrow?
                Writing journals in caves with finger paint?<br>
                <br>
                These are all tools. Sure, they can turn into a crutch
                or be abused like any other tool, but they can also be
                life-savers. I've seen similar arguments about avalanche
                beacons (and we'll likely hear those all again this
                winter). In all these cases, there seems to be one
                constant - your most important equipment is inside your
                skull.&nbsp; Any tool can be abused by a moron who doesn't
                know how to use it. If someone presses the SPOT button
                because they have a blister, or gets hypothermic because
                they wrongly thought their new jacket will protect them,
                or wanders across a dangerous avalanche path because
                they thought a beacon would save them... the fault isn't
                with the tool, it's with the person using it. <br>
                <br>
                Personally, I probably wouldn't use a SPOT on the CDT
                just because I'm cheap, and don't feel like carrying yet
                another thing. Instead, I'd make sure that someone
                (someone who isn't paranoid) had my itinerary, and I'd
                check in at each stop... I think that's what most people
                do. But, I could envision taking a trip to more remote
                locales where a SPOT would be welcome... and I'd be
                happy to hike on the CDT with someone who had a SPOT -
                heck, more insurance, and I don't have to pay or carry
                the thing. <br>
                <br>
                On 12/3/2010 7:51 AM, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:ks1007@aol.com" target="_blank">ks1007@aol.com</a>
                wrote:
                <blockquote><font size="3" color="black" face="Arial,
                    Helvetica, sans-serif">
                    <div>I don't think that I have seen it written
                      anywhere that all MUST carry a SPOT but after
                      seeing it in person actually saving a human (and 2
                      goats) lives it sure makes me wonder about the
                      value of someones life not having it along just in
                      case it's needed especially if you are hiking solo
                      - there is also nothing that says you need to
                      "ping" nightly or at all - rudy (cupcake) learned
                      the hard way about giving his family his itinerary
                      - if he didn't ping them they got worried and
                      called the place where "he should be" next - we
                      got a call from Paris, France and so did julie in
                      san lorenzo - I told him to not give out his
                      itinerary of where and when he should be next that
                      he would just call when he got there but he still
                      had the SPOT just in case</div>
                    <div>fine - you don't want to carry one then don't -
                      your choice - but don't try to sway others by
                      saying they will lose their "freedom" by carrying
                      one<br>
                      <br>
                    </div>
                    <div style="clear: both;"><font size="3"
                        color="black" face="Arial, Helvetica,
                        sans-serif"><font size="3" color="black"
                          face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font
                            size="2" color="black" face="arial">
                            <div><b><font size="3">el coyote</font></b></div>
                            <div><b><font size="3">Keith and Mary</font></b></div>
                            <div><b><font size="3">Trail Angels</font></b></div>
                            <div><b><font size="3">Deming, NM</font></b></div>
                          </font></font></font></div>
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    <div style="font-family: arial,helvetica; color:
                      black; font-size: 10pt;">-----Original
                      Message-----<br>
                      From: Paul Magnanti <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:pmags@yahoo.com" target="_blank">&lt;pmags@yahoo.com&gt;</a><br>
                      To: matthew lee <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:heymatthewlee@gmail.com"
                        target="_blank">&lt;heymatthewlee@gmail.com&gt;</a><br>
                      Cc: CDT MailingList <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:cdt-l@backcountry.net"
                        target="_blank">&lt;cdt-l@backcountry.net&gt;</a><br>
                      Sent: Thu, Dec 2, 2010 10:09 pm<br>
                      Subject: Re: [Cdt-l] See SPOT run...<br>
                      <br>
                      <div>
                        <div style="font-family:
                          arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">
                          <div style="font-family:
                            arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">ps. maybe the
                            article resonates less now that your website
                            has them as sponsor? :)</div>
                          <div style="font-family:
                            arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br>
                          </div>
                          <div style="font-family:
                            arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><br>
                          </div>
                          <font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">----------------------------</font><br>
                          <font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Paul
                            "Mags" Magnanti</font><br>
                          <font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span><a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="http://www.pmags.com/"
                                target="_blank">http://www.pmags.com</a></span></font><br>
                          <font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span><a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="http://www.twitter.com/pmagsco"
                                target="_blank">http://www.twitter.com/pmagsco</a></span></font><br>
                          <font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><span><a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="http://www.facebook.com/pmags"
                                target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/pmags</a></span></font><br>
                          <font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">-------------------------------</font><br>
                          <font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">The
                            true harvest of my life is intangible.... a
                            little stardust </font><br>
                          <font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">caught,
                            a portion of the rainbow I have clutched</font><br>
                          <font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">--Thoreau</font>
                          <blockquote style="padding-left: 5px;
                            margin-left: 5px;">
                            <div style="font-size: 12pt;">
                              <div style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
                                <font face="arial, helvetica,
                                  sans-serif"><br>
                                </font></div>
                            </div>
                          </blockquote>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      <div style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);
                        font-family: Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif;
                        color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px;">
                        <pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><tt>_______________________________________________
Cdt-l mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Cdt-l@backcountry.net" target="_blank">Cdt-l@backcountry.net</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l" target="_blank">http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l</a>

</tt></pre>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </font>
                  <pre><fieldset></fieldset>
_______________________________________________
Cdt-l mailing list
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Cdt-l@backcountry.net" target="_blank">Cdt-l@backcountry.net</a>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l" target="_blank">http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l</a>
</pre>
                </blockquote>
                <br>
                _______________________________________________ Cdt-l
                mailing list <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:Cdt-l@backcountry.net" target="_blank">Cdt-l@backcountry.net</a>
                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l"
                  target="_blank">http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l</a>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
          <br>
          _______________________________________________<br>
          Cdt-l mailing list<br>
          <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Cdt-l@backcountry.net">Cdt-l@backcountry.net</a><br>
          <a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l"
            target="_blank">http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l</a><br>
          <br>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
      <br>
      <br clear="all">
      <br>
      -- <br>
      For details about our winter pool sessions go to:<br>
      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
        href="http://sebagocanoeclub.org/pool-sessions.html"
        target="_blank">http://sebagocanoeclub.org/pool-sessions.html</a><br>
      <pre wrap="">
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
_______________________________________________
Cdt-l mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Cdt-l@backcountry.net">Cdt-l@backcountry.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l">http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/cdt-l</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
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