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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>
Jonathon - <BR>Thank you, sir. <BR> <BR>We argued this on at-l at one time and few, if any, understood the problem. Or had any real <BR>idea about solutions. I think mostly because few people have any understnding or appreciation <BR>of LARGE numbers, statistics or demographics. And that's not putting them down - it just puts <BR>them in with the majority of humanity that has no training in those subjects. If I'd been smarter, <BR>I wouldn't have opened this can of worms cause I don't have any real answers either. Except <BR>one on one interaction with those minorities who are willing. And they are rare. <BR> <BR>I've known blacks and Chinese and Koreans and Hispanics and Japanese who've either walked <BR>or attempted some of the trails, but their numbers are small in relation to the white bread population. <BR>I think a lot of us could say the same, but how many have made any real attempt to proselytize the <BR>trails, to get others out there? <BR> <BR>Anyway, I'm done here. At least on this topic. <BR> <BR>Y'all have a good night,<BR>Jim<br><br>http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/<br> <BR><div><div id="SkyDrivePlaceholder"></div><hr id="stopSpelling">Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 19:00:15 -0800<br>From: jonathan@phlumf.com<br>To: cdt-l@backcountry.net<br>Subject: Re: [Cdt-l] CDT Integration<br><br>
I agree with Jim as to the consequences of this. People protect what
they value. And if future generations don't value these long trails
& wild places, they won't protect them. <br>
<br>
I think it's more than just US minorities... there are large swaths
of the world population that are under-represented outside. There
are a billion people in India, yet in 10 years, I've never sent CDT
maps there. However, If you go to any US national park, you'll see
plenty of Indians. I've sent only 1 CDT map CD to a Chinese national
(going to school in the US)... again, among a population of a
billion. Same goes for South America, Central America, the middle
east (except Israel). This is hardly scientific, but interesting all
the same.<br>
<br>
As for the causes... I think it's a lot of little things. If you try
to pin it down to one reason, you'll miss the bigger picture. <br>
<br>
Part of it is poverty - just getting the disposable money &
time. Part of it is cultural - Pretty much what Jim said below. Part
of it is urbanization, and being disconnected from Nature. <br>
<br>
Then there are things that cut across demographics, like a media
culture which prizes virtual reality, and stokes fears about actual
reality. Plus, the way many kids are raised - where every bit of
free time is scheduled. There's no time to just wander, outside.
Where I grew up, there simply was nowhere wild within a day's drive.
Very few people back there do anything that involves a tent... and
many of them are minorities. <br>
<br>
I'm not sure what to do about all this... but I think it requires a
number of approaches. Everything from school programs, "hoods in the
woods", various outreach initiatives run by both private &
public organizations. Having some famous athelete/actor take up the
cause would help greatly. If someone could create a compelling TV
show centered around the outdoors that didn't involve "eating bugs",
that might help (though, I realize difficult - hiking isn't exactly
made for TV). Just getting more trails etched-out of areas near
urban centers would help. A lot of these things are happening on
some scale, so I am hopeful... yet when I look at the statistics, it
doesn't look so great. <br>
<br>
-Jonathan<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="ecxmoz-cite-prefix">On 1/4/2013 5:14 PM, Jim and_or Ginny
Owen wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:SNT120-W490C57C20CA08466F30CEDA0270@phx.gbl">
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<div dir="ltr">
Peter - <br>
Your question has far greater implications than most people here
realize. We discussed this <br>
several times on at-l while it was still a serious hiking forum
- which means a long time ago. <br>
<br>
To make this short - it's a cultural thing. And it's a survival
problem for all the long trails. <br>
Many cultures would never think of going out "into the woods."
In part because that 's where <br>
the "animals" live. And in part because one lives in a tent,
gets "dirty", etc - and in their culture <br>
only the poor live like that. Even in the States, that culture
persists - and propagates. <br>
<br>
And propagation is the root of a problem that has been and
continues to be ignored. Right now <br>
the "non-integrated" are minorities. That is NOT a permanent
situation. When they become majorities, <br>
why would anyone believe that they will not be represented in
government? And why would anyone <br>
believe that they will vote to continue funding trails that they
and their people will never use? <br>
<br>
Demographics are inexorable and unavoidable. <br>
<br>
So your question may have been a lot of other things, but it is
not inconsequential. <br>
<br>
And my answer to your friend is that he would be welcome on the
Trail. <br>
<br>
Jim<br>
<br>
<a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/" target="_blank">http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/</a><br>
<br>
<div>
<hr id="ecxstopSpelling">From: <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:petersustr@gmail.com">petersustr@gmail.com</a><br>
Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 11:17:53 -0700<br>
To: <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:altongbay@aol.com">altongbay@aol.com</a><br>
CC: <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:cdt-l@backcountry.net">cdt-l@backcountry.net</a>; <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dthibaul07@gmail.com">dthibaul07@gmail.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Cdt-l] CDT Integration<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">My question originated from one of my friends
(black guy) who was joking around that he didn't want to be
the 'where's waldo' of the CDT if he joined me this summer
for a section. All in good humor, not trying to start
anything :)
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>Peter "CzechXpress"</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="color: rgb(80, 0, 80); font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">Follow me as I
prepare to hike the CDT in 2013- Couch2CDT.com and </span><span style="color: rgb(80, 0, 80); font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">@Couch2CDT on
Twitter</span><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="ecxgmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="ecxgmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 10:21 AM,
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:altongbay@aol.com">altongbay@aol.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;" class="ecxgmail_quote">
<font color="black" size="3" face="Times New Roman, Times, serif"><font size="3">bet he was surprised to
see you and Judy coming out of the woods</font><br>
<br>
<br>
<div style="font-family: helvetica,arial; font-size: 10pt;">
<div class="ecxim">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Bob Sartini <<a href="mailto:bobsartini@gmail.com">bobsartini@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: David Thibault <<a href="mailto:dthibaul07@gmail.com">dthibaul07@gmail.com</a>><br>
Cc: cdt-l <<a href="mailto:cdt-l@backcountry.net">cdt-l@backcountry.net</a>><br>
Sent: Fri, Jan 4, 2013 5:49 am<br>
Subject: Re: [Cdt-l] CDT Integration<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
When we first moved to VT many years ago. We went
off into the woods exploring and "got turned
around". We approached a house to find out where
we were. When we told the owner we came through
the woods he said " I've lived here ten years and
have never been in that woods, there are animals
out there". he was white from NJ. So I doubt it's
a race based thing but certainly urban people have
"nature deficit disorder"<br>
<br>
<div class="ecxgmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at
9:43 PM, David Thibault <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dthibaul07@gmail.com">dthibaul07@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;" class="ecxgmail_quote">
<div class="ecxgmail_quote">
<div>There definitely is a lot less
minorities then there should be. I have
run into a few Hispanic women but hardly
any males, I think it might be a cultural
thing.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I do remember a guy on the AT calling
the urban youth groups "hoods in the
woods" programs. </div>
<div>I thought it was great that these folks
(mostly kids) got the chance to head out
into the woods for a few days.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I remember talking with one guy
(teenager) as I walked into an AT shelter
with a bunch of berries I'd picked on the
way in - he asked in a surprised way "You
can eat those?" He had been walking by
them all day and never considered you
could just find things to eat in the
woods. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>I also remember a Marine I met many
years ago telling me the first time he
ever left New York City was at age 18 - to
go to Camp Lejuene in North Carolina - and
how it really freaked him out to be in the
woods surrounded by trees. He said his
unease started on the bus ride there and
lasted for months. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Having grown up hiking, camping, and
fishing in the woods I was blown away that
he was completely on edge being in the
woods. He told me he though animals were
going to attack him every minute. </div>
<div>
</div>
<div>We need more minorities in the woods -
the trails (wild areas) need all the
friends/support they can get....</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Day-Late (white middle aged guy)</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>
</div>
<blockquote style="padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;" class="ecxgmail_quote">
<div class="ecxim">
<br>
black and maybe 5% Asian and I can't
recall meeting anyone that I<br>
understood to be Hispanic. On the AT
I've met dozens if not hundreds of<br>
"urban" youth groups out for a week or
so. <br>
<br>
><br>
</div>
<div class="ecxim">
> We've all noticed when we go
outdoors that every white middle aged
guy<br>
> goes outdoors but not enough
minorities.<br>
></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<div class="ecxim">
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</blockquote>
</div>
<div class="ecxim">
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
Everything is in Walking Distance
</div>
</div>
<div class="ecxim">
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