[pct-l] more on section P and Q - trees on trail

[David Hough on pct-l]

Taking a look at the 1974 guidebook, much about P and
Q becomes clearer.    Most of the current PCT
from Scott Mountain Summit to Grider Creek Campground
did not exist then.    From Kidder Lake junction
to the first logging road beyond Huckleberry Mountain,
the current PCT was recognizable in 1974.    Then
after
the logging roads the Grider Creek trail was the
same...
except the text indicates 14 stream crossings and no
bridges.     Anyway that older part is rather rough
and overgrown and rather tiring short ups and downs
compared to the parts built to post-1968 standards.

The current trail maintenance picture corresponds
rather
closely to the history.     The western 40 miles of
section P have maybe five small trees down, none of
them
a problem for hikers or stock.     Similarly the new
southern part of Q until Shelly Lake.

After that, as Judson reported a week ago, there's
a number of trees across the trail up until about the
Bear lake/Turk Lake junction.   Most are 12-18" but
there are some up to 36" that would be a problem
to a lot of stock, but some stock have gotten around
all
of them with some difficulty and doing no good to
the trail.     Another interesting aspect of parts
of this trail is that the wildflowers are so thick
that they have overgrown the trail and must be pushed
aside to see it.

>From Bear Lake/Turk Lake the older trail is OK
down to the first logging road, which is a trailhead
with a sign board and must see some traffic.     From
there to the third (last) Grider Creek Bridge, there
are a number of smaller 12-18" trees across the trail,
and the thimbleberries have overgrown parts of 
the trail to
an extent to make me think I was in section O again.
Nobody goes this way except PCT through and section 
hikers.

But from the third bridge to Grider Creek campground,
the trail is in immaculate condition, due perhaps to
its popularity with local day hikers.

As for water, there is one marked 
trail to Cold Springs now,
an excellent camping place.     There are two marked
trails to Shadow Lake.    Soft Water Spring is not
at one of those trail junctions, as the map suggests,
but is rather about halfway between them in a meadow
very close below the trail.     It was running last
week.   Because of uncertainty about trails and
locations, the guidebooks distances in this region
are somewhat confusing.

Cub Bear Spring was supposed to be running, but the
sign on the trail said it was five minutes away and
a section hiker who had been there said it was more
like half a mile.

Buckhorn Spring was running well, and it is marked
with a post with some red tape around it.
There is a faint use trail leading to it from the
PCT.

A lot of other trails shown in the guidebook and
Forest Service maps have completely disappeared.