[pct-l] O.d. COYOTE....Slackpacking the O.d. Coyote way.

[Jim and/or Ginny Owen]

Reinhold Metzger wrote:
> > Ooohhh,  what an awful two week.....first come the fires... then comes
>O.d.Coyote.
> > It's like getting hit by a motorcycle and then get run over by a truck.
> > I usually do not respond to posts like O.d Coyote's nasty Oct. 21 post,
>but this is character
> > assasination and needs responding.

Always makes me wonder about people who wait until the object of their 
attack is gone and can't defend themselves.  It's kinda like talking behind 
someone's back - nasty, slimy & underhanded....backstabbing.

The bad news?  For those who haven't figured it out, O.d. left the list last 
week and likely won't be back.  The loser?  - is the list as a whole.   The 
other bad news?  You got me back after having been gone for most of 6 years.

> > O.d.,  O.d,.....you make me chuckle......for someone who is super 
>sensitive
> > to criticism you seem overly eager to criticize anybody who does not 
>subscribe
> > to your philosophy of slackpacking, the O.d. Coyote way.

No - that wasn't his point at all.  In fact, in his posts to this list he 
never mentioned slackpacking. So what are you talking about?  Other than 
misdirection and self-defensiveness.

> > It appears you seem to be suffering from selective memory as 
>well.....very
>common                         > with older folks.

I'm 68 - and a lot older than o.d. --- so your point would be...?  Just how 
many folks on this list would you imagine you've insulted with that remark?

> > Your Oct. 21 post is riddled with inaccuracies twisted comments and 
>fabrications
> > to support your point of view and criticism of folks who disagree with 
>you.
>
> > I also remember our meetings but have a different recollection.
> > I remember thinking you were Billy Goat when I saw you scrambling up the
>sand dunes.
> > I remember after you shared your impressive hiking experiences with me 
>you
>asking me
> > who I was and you comenting I heard of you.
> > I responded I am Reinhold Metzger the unsupported JMT record holder not
>Reinhold
> > Messner the world famous moutaineer.
> > I remember your demeanor changing when you realized I am a fastpacker 
>and you
> > criticizing speed hiking, the Tripple Crown awards and the ''Glory
>Hounds'', as you put it,
> > who hike for awards and you insisting heavier and better equiped
>slackpackers enjoy their
> > hike more than speed hikers.
> > Being a firm  HYOH  believer, I disagreed but hey......HYOH.
> > You on the other hand were unvavering in your insistence that 
>slackpacking
>is the superior
> > and more enjoyable way.

In fact, I believe your comments tally pretty well with his recollections as 
expressed in his post.  So what specifically were the "inaccuracies twisted 
comments and fabrications" that you accuse him of? You've failed to make 
your point.

You also seem to have missed this part of his post -

>We talked for an hour or so, sharing what I believed was a private 
>conversation
>in the middle of nowhere with no one else around, about various hiking
>topics, one of which was the Triple Crown.

What part of "private conversation" do you not understand?  Would you also 
publicly post a "private" email?  In case you haven't figured it out - 
they're equivalent.  Particularly since you felt moved to comment on his 
attitudes, beliefs, etc.  That's a bit of arrogance that you should be old 
enough to avoid - it depends on assumptions that one is never qualified to 
make about someone else without a lot more than an hours conversation.

So --- what's your problem with his hiking his hike?  Obviously you have a 
problem or you wouldn't be belaboring this.  As for the Triple Crown - well, 
I am one - and I agree with him to a very large degree.  And as I've said 
before - very few people have given the subject enough thought to qualify as 
worth listening to.  The reactions on this list to his thoughts on the 
subject were entirely defensive and without either thought or merit.

> > I also remember telling you I would post a comment on the PCT-L about 
>our
>meeting on
> > your second Coastal Trail hike on and you had no objection.
> > Shortly  after we parted company with, me thinking...strange
>bird...accomplished hiker, but
> > strange bird.

All long distance hikers are strange - any other view is stranger still.

> > You see O.d......In nature not all things are created equal.....some of 
>us
> > are born with 4 cylinders some of us are born with 8 cylinders, there 
>are
> > turtles and there are rabbits, slackpackers and fast packers, that's 
>what
> > keeps the world diverse and interesting.
> > Turtles,  4 cylinders and slackpackers will forever criticize rabbits, 8
>cylinders
> > and fastpackers for hiking to fast and not enjoying their hike.

And what evidence do you have to support your view?  I've found from both 
observation and personal experience that speed hikers are extraordinarily 
hypersensitive to ANY reference to hiking speed.  And screamingly defensive 
about any reference to or observation about it.  You got your logic 
bassackwards there.  You need to read this - http://spiriteaglehome.com/bb 
speed.html

And then answer the questions that are asked there.  Until you have answers 
to those questions, you have no business beating up on anyone else's hiking 
style.

> > Who is to say  turtles, 4 cylinders and slackpackers enjoy their journey
> > more than  rabbits, 8 cylinders and fastpackers?

The evidence is the constant litany of comments from the rabbits, 8 
cylinders and fastpackers.  As well as the constant derogatory remarks, 
insults and putdowns of those who fail to meet "their" standards for pack 
weight, speed and distance.  Yeah - I've gotten all of that and more.  And, 
like it or not, your words and attitude here is just a continuation of the 
litany.

So here's another quote for you - from a Triple Crown -

>One of the hardest parts of thruhiking is the way the push for miles can 
>take over a hike. When it becomes an endurance test - a death march - then 
>the purpose of the hike changes from exploring and enjoying the land and 
>the wildlife and the people to a joyless quest for more and more miles in 
>order to get to the end of the trail. On the CDT, that very often 
>translates to >the “race for the border” – and the destination becomes more 
>important than the journey.

How many times have I seen that?  Let me count the ways --- but then,  I 
don't have enough fingers and toes......

> > Who is to say everyone should slackpack the O.d. Coyote way?
> > I say...HYOH... and who cares what O.d. Coyote says.

Since he's a lot smarter than you, maybe you should pay more attention to 
him.

> > I used to hike like you hauling a 65 lb pack with everything needed to
> > survive a nuclear attack.
> > But, as I grew older and wiser I saw the light and now I travel
>ultra-lite.
> > But you know O.d., some folks don't get wiser as they get older they 
>just
> > get older and never see the light.
> > I suspect you may be part of the later group.
> > However, do not despair, it is never to late to see the light....so open
>up your
> > eyes O. d. and let the light shine in.
>
> > Cheers, and hope to see you on the trail again someday.
> > Maybe you can show me the merits of slackpacking and I can show you the
> > merits of fastpacking and maybe, just maybe, we can come up with the 
>right
> > compatible speed combination for turtles & rabbits and we will be one
>happy
> > family and you will not have those pesty speed hikers zooooming by you 
>and
> > aggravating you.

Sometimes it's not the zooooming that bothers some of us - it's the 
unsociability of those who are in such a hurry they have no time to talk 
about what they're doing or the trail or anything else.  And sometimes they 
haven't even the time to say hello.  When we did the PCT we met a southbound 
section hiker who was amazed that we'd actually stop to talk to him for a 
few minutes . He told us that we were the first at least a couple dozen 
thruhikers who'd been willing to take the time to even say hello.  What a 
pitiful comment on what some people have the temerity to call a trail 
"community.

> > JMT Reinhold
> > The 4 cylinder slackpacker & HYOH  crusader

You got your terms mixed there - which, given that they were "your" terms, 
is an indication that o.d.'s memories are probably a lot better than yours.

In fact, O.d.'s point re: this list and your previous posts was that 
trashing a fellow hiker behind their back is unacceptable behavior, just as 
it is an any other community or group.  Which is precisely what you just did 
here.  You could also say that it's what I just did.  But keep in mind that 
if you fail to respect the accomplishments of someone who did what you 
aspire to do long before you ever even heard of it, then you should have no 
expectation that others will respect your hike or accomplishments.

As for HYOH, you really should learn more about it before you start throwing 
the term around.  One part of HYOH is to mind your own business - not that 
of other hikers.  If O.d. wants to slackpack "his way" and to urge others to 
try it, it's not your business to trash him for it - or to comment publicly 
on a forum where he has no opportunity to rebut or discuss your arguments.

Another part is to refrain from doing things that damage the trail, the 
community or your fellow hikers.  That part is NOT restricted to the 
physical damage resulting from burning down the hostel - it includes the 
damage to the general reputation of long distance hiking/hikers.  And it 
includes not trashing the elders of your tribe as has been done here.  
That's not your business.

Your post violates 2 of the 3 parts of HYOH.  You might want to read the 
following web pages - you might learn something -

http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/THP hyoh.html

http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/cdt hyoh.html

Finally - you object to "character assassination" - but your original post 
last year was specifically that.  And now you've continued the abuse with 
this post.  O.d. is one of the elders of the tribe - and the way he was 
treated by pct-l in general and you in particular, was rude, crude, uncalled 
for -- and shameful.

A very irritated Jim

http://spiriteaglehome.com/

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