[pct-l] Pct-l Digest, Vol 8, Issue 70

Sat Aug 30 18:28:58 CDT 2008

Wizard, I might write an article to share what I know and have learned on the PCT.Susan,I will answer your specific questions with extra comments.I decided to skip certain sections because of the risks of trying to go through snow. That included the Sierra. I have hiked the John Muir Trail. We had reached Horseshoe Meadow latein June.That is where we made my pre-planed exit. I trailered to Sierra City. Late June and all of July would be risky on a horse over the high passes. Also, there would be many down trees is some areas along the JMT before mid July. By August the park service will usually have the trail open for stock.If you want to do the JMT north and past lake Tahoe think mid-August through late Sept.
I waited a long time in Sierra City. I campedin a large corral with Primo and other horses courtesy of a Sierra City equestrian. Because of the closed trails and a lot of smoke, I finally skip everything up to Burney Falls. This was a tough decision to make. Leaving Primo in good care, I had already driven north with my rig and dropped off our resupplies in Beldon Town and cached them atother locations between S. City and Burney Falls while driving the rig north to Castle Crags. Now I had to hitch and Greyhound back up to C. Crags to get the rig so I could continue north. We were able to journey north from B. Falls to McKenzie Pass, only having to trailer around section Q because it was closed due to fires.We did pass through Crater Lake N.P. Equestrians are not allowed on the rim trail but there is a spur trail, which we took to the rim to view the lake.Susan, you asked about Primos age and experience. He is 14 and has lots of experience. Because he was
 very hard to ride in the one 50 mile endurance race that he did with his former owner,he was rejected and put out on large acreage on the high desert of Oregon north of Bend. He ran virtually wild with, I am told,17 other horses.I bought him over 5 years ago, and he lived on 70 acres with our other horses in northern California.. This land was not flat and smooth. Arabian horses love to run; and they would, over holes rocks hills logs. Horses, in this environment learn to watch where they put thier feet.I have ridden Primo  in many endurance races - he has won several. I mention this Susan, because this is the sort of experience you would like your PCT horse to have. Ideally, an arabian or a true mustang.Not a large or heavy horse. Must be sure-footed and agile.Must be brave and willing to go over under and around and across the the many obstacles. There are places on the PCT where having a pack horse ore mule, in my opinion, be a liability and a
 risk. Sometimes you are on a very narrow trail contouring along the edge of a cliff or a steep drop off. Add to this a sandy trail traversing a slide can narrow to 3 iches wide for 15 feet or more. Or, a down tree or a fallen boulder blocks the trail. Sometimes it is necessary to cut out a tree [I brought along a folding saw with a very sharp 14 and 1/2 inch blade that would cut from the tip. It was possible to cut a tree up to about 16 inches. I made my wedges out of wood] Other times,if there is no way past without risking a fall, I would backtrack and find a detour route.I suspect that when some riders lose thier horses they had decided to take the risk. I have no tolerance for life-threatening risks to my horse or to myself. Sometimes there is no risk. You simply can not get past a trail-stopper. Then backtracking and detouring is your only option. There were some detours that took up to 2 hours. The longest took over 8 hours and nearly 20 miles.
 You must be prepared and willing to do this if the alternative is to take a bad risk. I should mention that the hikers have no great problem with these obstacles.That is one of the reasons why it has been estimated that it is 4 to 6 times more difficult to ride the PCT than to hike it.
You can go 20 miles or more without water. This was never a real problem for Primo. He was walking, not running, not much sweat. I almost always found places to camp where there was both graze and water and trees to highline. In a few cases if Primo had a good drink recently and we found a place with excellent graze but no water we would camp.An arabian horse can go a long time without water at the walk. You asked about footwear. He was shod 3 times. I always had the ferriers put titanium studs, 2 on each shoe, for improved traction on slick surfaces and for longer wear. I carried an E-Z boot EPIC and never used it. That is a must, also bring a tool to enable you to remove a loose shoe if necessary. You asked about pest protection. I brought insect repellent and bought brand EX-OFFICIO insect-repellent cloths; socks, pants, shirt,and a hat for in  camp.( I wore a helmet while riding for safety] For Primo I used insect repellant when necessary, whilein
 camp. I also had a good face mask for him and a light-weight blanket. The blanket helped with the insects and also reduced heat loss on a cold night, helping him to hold his weight.
Susan, on a trip like this you and your horse will develop a strong bond, a real friendship between two species. I was the other horse,Primo the other person. We relied on one another, we trusted one another. 

Mendorider

From: pct-l-request at backcountry.net <pct-l-request at backcountry.net>
Subject: Pct-l Digest, Vol 8, Issue 70
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Date: Saturday, August 30, 2008, 3:05 AM

Send Pct-l mailing list submissions to
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Today's Topics:

   1. veggie (Dusty Wallace)
   2. Re: veggie (Andrea Dinsmore)
   3. Re: horse thru-ride on PCT (Craig Rice)
   4. Re: Veggies on the trail (Carolyn Eddy)
   5. Re: Veggies on the trail (Jeffrey Olson)
   6. Re: Veggies on the trail (Carolyn Eddy)
   7. Re: Veggies on the trail (dicentra)
   8. Cold weather for Washington and Oregon Cascades,	snow level
      close to 4000 ft. (mattjolley at comcast.net)
   9. Re: Horse thru ride (susan)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:50:38 -0700
From: "Dusty Wallace" <dusterbuddy at comcast.net>
Subject: [pct-l] veggie
To: <Pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <000501c90a3a$75aef130$610cd390$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

Oops?..www.onepnawonders.com.

? Sorry ~Dicentra

Dusty

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 18:08:44 -0700
From: "Andrea Dinsmore" <zaqueltooocool at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] veggie
To: "Dusty Wallace" <dusterbuddy at comcast.net>
Cc: Pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID:
	<f2a521470808291808m6dab034dhf5e942437d653765 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252

Looks like she spelled pan wrong.

PCT MOM

On 8/29/08, Dusty Wallace <dusterbuddy at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Oops?..www.onepnawonders.com.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ? Sorry ~Dicentra
>
>
>
>
>
> Dusty
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-l mailing list
> Pct-l at backcountry.net
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 18:19:22 -0700
From: Craig Rice <rice.craig at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] horse thru-ride on PCT
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID: <891BF1A3-88D2-4C66-93DB-79C087491DCA at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

Hi Susan and Mendorider,

Having completed the PCT on foot, my appaloosa and I have been  
discussing my doing it again with her. Susan, good luck on your  
adventure! Mendorider, having just read you posting, are you  
considering writing up an full article about your ride? I'm certain  
that a lot of equestrians would enjoy and benefit from your experiences.

Mr. Wizard 

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 18:29:56 -0700
From: "Carolyn Eddy" <ECPG at peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Veggies on the trail
To: "Dusty Wallace" <dusterbuddy at comcast.net>
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID: <029001c90a3f$ea34b530$fb9ff204 at carolynaa423d0>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

With some planning it's easy to put together storebought freeze dried and 
home dehydrated backpacking food.

There's an edition of "Lipsmackin' Backpackin' " for
vegetarians that has a 
lot on home dehyrating and recipes to eat well on the trail.

I think you can buy it at REI.

Also, CampTrails has a line of dehydrated foods for vegetarians that are 
actually edible. One cup of hot water and it makes lots. They are heavy on 
chicken flavors but it's not real chicken. I add dehydrated or freezedried 
veggies to the basic mix. If you want a good price on this let me know and 
I'll get you in touch with the guy I get it from who sells for just over 
wholesale.

"Sweet Goat Mama"
Carolyn Eddy
www.goattracksmagazine.com 

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 20:25:12 -0600
From: Jeffrey Olson <jolson at olc.edu>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Veggies on the trail
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID: <48B8AF88.4020609 at olc.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I feel like contributing but not writing...  I posted this a couple 
years ago, the last time in February of 2007, sometime in 2005 before that... 
It involves heating water, so it's not cookless. I have gone cookless, but
not for any more than a couple weeks.  I don't know how eating goldfish and
far east mix, and mealpack bars and nuts and chocolate can go.  I'd be
interested in hearing some realistic ways to hike and not even boil water.  

My favorite dinners are a compilation of cheap, healthy components.  There 
are four basic levels.

The first level is the base; pasta, instant rice, cous cous, polenta (grits) 
or potato flakes, my favorite.  4 oz for the first couple weeks, 6 oz for 
the rest of the hike.

The second level is a dehydrated soup; split pea, black bean (with extra 
salt) or my favorite, curried lentil.  2 oz for the first couple weeks, and 
3-4 oz for the rest of the hike.

The third level is the "binder."  I never knew about binders until I
got 
disgusted with prepackaged freeze dried food - mostly price.  The binder is 
the ingredient that ties everything else together.  Rice and black bean soup 
mix gets old real fast.

The bind I favor is parmesian cheese - Kraft or some other generic version. 
The stuff lasts forever and has good fat content.  For the first two weeks - 
2oz, and 3 oz for the rest of the hike.  You can carry oil or margarine, 
fake and tubbed, but I've found that good old Kraft Parmesian makes me
smack 
my lips as I wolf down dinner.  I usually include an ounce of 4% dehydrated 
milk as another binder.

The fourth level is where you get creative, and can use the dehydrator. 
Anything goes.  An oddity I like is to include dehydrated blueberries, an 
ounce or two, in a dinner once in a while.  Vegetables, etc.   Whatever the 
imagination can concoct.  If you use potato flakes, include fake margarine 
and about three ounces per person of soy baco bits.  That's a lot of baco 
bits, believe me...  They are salty and absolutely wonderful.  Potato flakes 
makes the greatest volume per weight, but there are some issues with the 
hypoglycemic spike some people might have to consider.

I package dinners at home in the same manner.  Use a gallon freezer bag to 
put the rice/pasta/cous cous in.  Then put the soup in a quart sandwich bag. 
Put the cheese in a quart sandwich bag.  Put both quart bags in the gallon 
bag, seal the gallon bag so there is the least air in it as possible, and 
then secure with a small strip of duct tape.

I know all these bags sounds wasteful and lots of extra weight, but being 
able to get the water to boil, put in the instant rice, let it cook for 20 
seconds, mix in the soup, turn off the stove, or some favorite order - makes 
controlling the process easier.  Finally, you can either add the parmesian 
just before serving to the whole pot, which means you have to spend more 
time cleaning it, or to your individual servings, which means you only have 
cheesy residue on your cup.  I fknow all this as I weight and measure and 
bag and tape.  Experience has me do what works for me.

You can vary your dinners so you don't have the same dinner but twice a 
month.  I found I preferred more curried lentil dinners and fewer black 
beans.  I really liked potato dinners once a week.  They make a LOT of food 
for the weight, and taste so, so, good with the margarine and baco bits. 
I'm a little suspect about the potato dinner's nutrition, hence they
are a 
treat - once a week.

This stuff is all bought in bulk.  The idea of shopping as you go has its 
fans, but I don't like leaving the trail, and I know what I will eat on the

trail.  Mac and cheese it ain't...  My package disappeared from the Big
Lake 
Religious camp and I had to hitch into Sisters for a resupply at the store 
at the edge of town.  $50 for five days.  I figured that I was spending 
about $4 a day if I ate nothing but bulk food.  My folks live in the bay 
area and shipping the food was not that expensive.  I so appreciated my next 
food drop at Timberline Lodge...  The store bought stuff just wasn't the 
same.  

When I added the mealpack bars, or power bars, or any of the "someone else

does the work" foods, the cost easily doubled.  That said, I'm a
convert to 
the 4oz bars you can buy for less than a buck at http://mealpack.com/.  You 
get 440 calories for less than a buck!!!  You have to buy a minimum of 50 
bars to get that price, but that's not a big deal.

Jeff, just Jeff...

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 19:52:29 -0700
From: "Carolyn Eddy" <ECPG at peoplepc.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Veggies on the trail
To: "Jeffrey Olson" <jolson at olc.edu>
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID: <000201c90a4c$2b8d69d0$99abf204 at carolynaa423d0>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

You can rehydrate freezedried and dehydrated fruits and veggies with cold 
water. If you start soaking at one meal they will be ready by the next.

"Sweet Goat Mama"
Carolyn Eddy
www.goattracksmagazine.com 

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 21:39:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: dicentra <dicentragirl at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Veggies on the trail
To: Pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID: <937644.87704.qm at web56713.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Did you mean www.onepanwonders.com?? Google can't find
www.onepancooking.com -- Any of the recipes calling for chicken bouillon can
also use vegetable bouillon... Or contact me and I'll help adapt recipes.
?
~Dicentra?

http://www.onepanwonders.com
http://www.freewebs.com/dicentra 

?

--- On Fri, 8/29/08, Dusty Wallace <dusterbuddy at comcast.net> wrote:

From: Dusty Wallace <dusterbuddy at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Veggies on the trail
To: Pct-l at backcountry.net
Date: Friday, August 29, 2008, 5:48 PM

There are many current thru hikers that are going veggie. I will ask them
when I see then in various WA locations. But my friend S.O.L. is currently
doing all veggie but is cooking and has had no problems resupplying. She is
however relying heavily on boxes that I've been sending out.
www.onepancooking.com has some good dishes but just take out the meat. I
have a problem not looking down in the ingrediance list because there is a
lot of chicken broth or meat byproducts. Yuck!! Best of luck.

Dusty 

_______________________________________________
Pct-l mailing list
Pct-l at backcountry.net
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 06:18:26 +0000
From: mattjolley at comcast.net
Subject: [pct-l] Cold weather for Washington and Oregon Cascades,	snow
	level close to 4000 ft.
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID:
	<083020080618.24141.48B8E632000B8F5B00005E4D2200734076970A040401069B9B0E03 at comcast.net>

Content-Type: text/plain

Point forecasts are showing lows of 25 degrees,  highs of 41 at  7000 ft in
Oregon.

Colder in Washington.     Hope for small accumulations.

 20 to 50 percent chance of snow,  spotty light showers expected Saturday,
Sunday.

SPECIAL WEATHER STATEMENT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE SEATTLE WA
300 PM PDT FRI AUG 29 2008

WAZ513-518-519-302215-
OLYMPICS-WEST SLOPES NORTHERN CASCADES AND PASSES-
WEST SLOPES CENTRAL CASCADES AND PASSES-
300 PM PDT FRI AUG 29 2008

...UNSEASONABLY COOL IN THE MOUNTAINS THIS HOLIDAY WEEKEND..

A HEADS UP FOR HIKERS...CLIMBERS AND OTHERS HEADED INTO THE
OLYMPICS AND WASHINGTON CASCADES THIS HOLIDAY WEEKEND.
UNSEASONABLY COOL WEATHER CONDITIONS ARE EXPECTED AND IF YOU ARE
PLANNING TO BE IN THE MOUNTAINS...BE PREPARED FOR COOL CONDITIONS.

LOWER PRESSURE ALOFT IS FORECAST TO FOLLOW A PACIFIC FRONTAL
SYSTEM MOVING THROUGH THROUGH WESTERN WASHINGTON LATE FRIDAY..
BRINGING AN UNSEASONABLY COOL AIR MASS INTO THE REGION.

ONLY SPOTTY LIGHT SHOWERS ARE ANTICIPATED SATURDAY AND SUNDAY. BUT
TEMPERATURES WILL BE COOL FOR LATE AUGUST. SNOW LEVELS IN THE
OLYMPICS AND CASCADES ARE ANTICIPATED TO DROP CLOSE TO 4000 OR
5000 FEET.

NIGHTTIME TEMPERATURES IN THE MOUNTAINS NEAR THE 3000 TO 5000 FOOT
LEVELS ARE EXPECTED TO DROP INTO THE 30S TO LOWER 40S SUNDAY
MORNING WHILE DAYTIME TEMPERATURES SATURDAY AND SUNDAY WILL WARM
ONLY INTO THE UPPER 40S AND 50S.

SO AGAIN...FOR HIKERS...CLIMBERS AND OTHERS PLANNING TO BE IN THE
OLYMPICS AND WASHINGTON CASCADES THIS HOLIDAY WEEKEND SHOULD BE
PREPARED FOR UNSEASONABLY COOL WEATHER CONDITIONS WITH A THREAT OF
LIGHT SHOWERS. MONITOR CURRENT AND FORECAST CONDITIONS VIA YOUR
LOCAL NOAA WEATHER RADIO STATION OR ON THE INTERNET AT
WEATHER.GOV/SEATTLE

SPECIAL WEATHER STATEMENT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE PORTLAND OR
159 PM PDT FRI AUG 29 2008

ORZ011-013-WAZ019-301400-
NORTHERN OREGON CASCADES-CASCADES IN LANE COUNTY-
SOUTH WASHINGTON CASCADES-
INCLUDING THE CITIES OF...GOVERNMENT CAMP...DETROIT..
SANTIAM PASS...MCKENZIE BRIDGE...OAKRIDGE...WILLAMETTE PASS..
COLDWATER RIDGE VISITORS CENTER...MOUNT ST. HELENS
159 PM PDT FRI AUG 29 2008

...COOL WEATHER EXPECTED IN THE MOUNTAINS THIS HOLIDAY WEEKEND..

UNSEASONABLY COOL WEATHER CONDITIONS ARE EXPECTED IN THE
MOUNTAINS THIS HOLIDAY WEEKEND. HIKERS...CLIMBERS AND CAMPERS
SHOULD PREPARE FOR COOL CONDITIONS.

A PACIFIC FRONTAL SYSTEM WILL MOVE THROUGH THE PACIFIC NORTHWEST
TONIGHT BRINGING A CHANCE OF SHOWERS. AN UPPER LEVEL LOW PRESSURE
SYSTEM WILL FOLLOW SATURDAY AND SUNDAY...BRINGING AN UNSEASONABLY
COOL AIR MASS INTO THE REGION.

ALTHOUGH ONLY LIGHT SHOWERS ARE ANTICIPATED SATURDAY AND
SUNDAY...TEMPERATURES WILL BE UNSEASONABLY COOL FOR LATE AUGUST.
SNOW LEVELS IN THE CASCADES WILL DROP TO NEAR 7000 FEET ON
SATURDAY AND NEAR 6000 FEET ON SUNDAY.

NIGHTTIME TEMPERATURES IN THE MOUNTAIN PASSES WILL DROP INTO THE 40S
THIS WEEKEND...WHILE DAYTIME TEMPERATURES ON SATURDAY AND SUNDAY
WILL ONLY MAKE IT INTO THE MID 50S TO NEAR 60.

OUTDOOR ENTHUSIASTS PLANNING TO BE IN THE CASCADES THIS HOLIDAY
WEEKEND SHOULD BE PREPARED FOR UNSEASONABLY COOL WEATHER
CONDITIONS AND A THREAT OF LIGHT SHOWERS. STAY INFORMED ABOUT THE
LATEST WEATHER CONDITIONS BY MONITORING YOUR LOCAL NOAA WEATHER
RADIO STATION OR THE INTERNET AT WEATHER.GOV/PORTLAND.

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2008 05:13:54 -0500
From: "susan" <woodswitch at hughes.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Horse thru ride
To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <002001c90a89$2119b520$0b00a8c0 at SusanLaptop>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Mendorider
Not much could dissuade me from doing the PCT thru-ride. This trail has
pulled me for several years and most of what I have done has directly or
indirectly pointed me to it. It is a true obsession, taking all the time I
have/can allow for planning/dreaming. I'm going, with my horse and a pack
horse, maybe alone, but I am going. I just can't shake the draw. My husband
thought it would just blow over and something else would pull my attention
away, (sorry, sweetie) it has only gotten worse (or better, depending on
which side of the fence you are on. Even this email makes me want to pack up
and head out!
My biggest concern immediately is that the PCT trail maps are great but not
complete, leaving me to purchase something for N. Calif, Southern Ore and
unless someone has any suggestions, it is going to cost plenty to obtain the
maps. I have solid plans to Tuolumne Meadows but am having difficulty
getting the same information as is so readily available for everything
south. Anybody have suggestions? Mendorider, did you ride the John Muir
Trail, Fuller Ridge, Crater Lake? Also, how old is Primo, how many years
experience has he had? I have a much loved partner I want to use but he will
only be 5 in the spring. My second choice is a great trouper with lots of
experience and 9 years old but just not that same connection. What was the
longest time without water? What foot wear did Primo have? What kind of pest
protection? 

-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
On Behalf Of pct-l-request at backcountry.net
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 7:40 PM
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Pct-l Digest, Vol 8, Issue 69

Send Pct-l mailing list submissions to
	pct-l at backcountry.net

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Pct-l Digest, Vol 8,	Issue 67 just compleated horse
      thru-ride on PCT (Jereen Anderson)
   2. Veggie Advice Needed (Hiker97)
   3. Post/pre-trail adjustment (Susan Alcorn)
   4. Re: Veggie Advice Needed (dicentra)
   5. Re: Veggies on the trail (Dusty Wallace)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:59:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jereen Anderson <jereenanderson at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pct-l Digest, Vol 8,	Issue 67 just compleated
	horse thru-ride on PCT
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID: <276102.24302.qm at web58605.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

My name is Ed Anderson --- trail name "mendorider" I recently
compleated my
thru-ride on the PCT on my arabian endurance horse Primo. TO SUSAN: i am
sure that you might be discouraged by what the lady from Santa Barbara
wrote. My experience was positive. I had a great time and Primo did to. We
journeyed from the Mexican border to Sisters, Oregon.We trailered around the
deep snows and the fires. Several sections of trail were closed because of
the fires. Primo held on to his normal weight better than I did. He did lose
about 25 pounds during the last week in the Sisters Wilderness because I had
a promised deadline to return home for family events and to be at Mckinsie
Pass to meet an angel who would pick us up and trailer us to Sisters. Primo
was back to his normal weight is less than a week.We went "solo".I
have had
lots of backpacking and saddlebaging experience and went light, bringing?
what most backpackers would plus the horse needs.
I brought 6 pounds of horse feed per day. This was in 3-pound odor-proof
freezer bags.I let him graze a lot along the trail and in camp, two to four
hours after arriving ?at a camp and usually about an hour and one half in
the morning while I broke camp. He was always hobbled and belled?while in
camp and was highlined at night.Be sure that the horse that you ride on the
PCT is sure-footed and agile and not too ?heavy.Many parts of the trail are
challenging. You and your horse should have trail and camping experience
together. Takea few two to four day trips together--- you will learn a lot.
--- On Fri, 8/29/08, pct-l-request at backcountry.net
<pct-l-request at backcountry.net> wrote:

From: pct-l-request at backcountry.net <pct-l-request at backcountry.net>
Subject: Pct-l Digest, Vol 8, Issue 67
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Date: Friday, August 29, 2008, 10:00 AM

Send Pct-l mailing list submissions to
	pct-l at backcountry.net

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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You can reach the person managing the list at
	pct-l-owner at backcountry.net

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Pct-l digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1. starting at ADZPCTKO and (vegetarian) resupply strategy.
      (Julian Plamann)
   2. Re: Recently Hiked Stevens Pass to Rainy Pass, but not the
      Glacier Pk Detour (Denis Stanton)
   3. Re: Recently Hiked Stevens Pass to Rainy Pass,	but not the
      Glacier Pk Detour (Andrea Dinsmore)
   4. PCT rescue.............. (Andrea Dinsmore)
   5. Re: horse interests on the PCT
      (Diane at Santa Barbara Hikes dot com)
   6.  Shelter Question (Dr. Ritchey A. Ruff)
   7. Re: horse interests on the PCT (Kent Spring)
   8. Re: horse interests on the PCT (Carl Siechert)
   9. Re: starting at ADZPCTKO and (vegetarian) resupply strategy.
      (dicentra)
  10. Trail Journal electronics (William A. Chavez)
  11. Re: Trail Journal electronics (Hank Magnuski)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:36:40 -0700
From: "Julian Plamann" <julian at amity.be>
Subject: [pct-l] starting at ADZPCTKO and (vegetarian) resupply
	strategy.
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID:
	<45cd425a0808281936p1fed83e8gf715dde52e942661 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I'm curious about what you all think is the best time for me to start my
thru this next spring considering my resupply strategy...
I plan to keep maildrops to an absolute minimum... as in none if possible.
Instead, I'll be going the resupply-as-I-go route along with a bounce box
for more difficult resupplies. I am not really concerned about doing it this
way as I'm not picky at all when it comes to food... gas-station-esque junk
food is all I seem to crave when I'm hiking anyway. However, I am a
vegetarian which may complicate things a bit. I'd really love to go to the
kickoff because it sounds amazing, but I'm concerned that if I start with
the crowd, I'll have problems finding enough food in the smallest of towns
during the first month or so. I've been thinking of doing what some do and
start a week early and hitch back for the kickoff, but if I could avoid
doing that it would be really great. Also, I'm a pretty quick hiker, so I
don't want to risk hitting the Sierra too early if I start before the
kickoff.

Anyone care to weigh in and help me make up my mind?

I hope you're all enjoying the summer,
Julian

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:15:43 +1200
From: Denis Stanton <denisstanton at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Recently Hiked Stevens Pass to Rainy Pass, but
	not the Glacier Pk Detour
To: zaqueltooocool at gmail.com
Cc: PCT List List <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <A47510BD-8148-490A-A044-6799DB5C3698 at mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

On 29/08/2008, at 2:03 PM, Andrea Dinsmore wrote:

> 47 words in one sentence.  That would take a lot of air if you were  
> speaking.

Hi Mom,

Are you saying it must take a lot of hot air to express myself like  
that?

Denis Stanton
denisstanton at mac.com

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:39:16 -0700
From: "Andrea Dinsmore" <zaqueltooocool at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Recently Hiked Stevens Pass to Rainy Pass,	but
	not the Glacier Pk Detour
To: "Denis Stanton" <denisstanton at mac.com>
Cc: PCT List List <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID:
	<f2a521470808282039m4ef06fb5j923ffb9153da2e78 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Now........I wouldn't say something like that about you sweetie
!!!.........:)

PCT MOM

On 8/28/08, Denis Stanton <denisstanton at mac.com> wrote:
>
>
>  On 29/08/2008, at 2:03 PM, Andrea Dinsmore wrote:
>
>  47 words in one sentence.  That would take a lot of air if you were
> speaking.
>
>
>
> Hi Mom,
>
>
> Are you saying it must take a lot of hot air to express myself like that?
>
>
>
>  Denis Stanton
>  denisstanton at mac.com
>
>

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:42:24 -0700
From: "Andrea Dinsmore" <zaqueltooocool at gmail.com>
Subject: [pct-l] PCT rescue..............
To: "pct back country" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID:
	<f2a521470808282042h2befd435v25e0a9d1ac05efeb at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

http://www.king5.com/video/index.html?nvid=277039

PCT MOM

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:03:36 -0700
From: Diane at Santa Barbara Hikes dot com
	<diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] horse interests on the PCT
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID:
	<59F8C36B-D8DC-44BD-BD44-EBDC215155E1 at santabarbarahikes.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

On Aug 28, 2008, at 6:55 PM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:
>> Would like to know if anyone recently has ridden the PCT (as much as
>> possible) in it's entirety? Planning to do that in 09 and would  
>> like to make
>> contact with equestrians.
>> Gray-haired rider
>> Susan

> Dr York is a veterinarian and experienced horseman, and he still and
> lost a horse in the Sierra. That is when I first heard of blowing up a
> horse carcass as a way of "cleaning it up." I met some people
who
> helped him in Oregon, and they were (privately) appalled at the
> condition of his stock when they met him. Then again, most thru hikers
> are pretty lean and ratty by then too.
>
> He had a dedicated crew to bring him horse feed and water, especially
> in the desert sections, and he trailered around snow sections. I
> suppose a true thru-ride is possible, but it would be very difficult
> and very hard on your stock.

I met a man at the Heitman's house who had ridden his horses (he rode  
one and used another as a pack horse) from Kentucky or Tennessee  
across the Southern US and up the PCT and was planning to ride back  
along the Lewis and Clark trail. He lost one of his horses, the one  
he loved the most, on the Hat Creek Rim. It had become spooked by  
something and ran away. He searched for a long time before someone  
saw the dead horse below the Rim. He was really ruined by the loss. I  
never saw such a sad man.

He had to skip a lot of the PCT because of snow and maybe other  
reasons I didn't catch, and find alternate routes all along his  
route. He told stories of following fences in Texas and coming to an  
impass and having to backtrack up to 50 or 100 miles to find another  
way. It sounds really difficult to travel by horse! I certainly  
couldn't imagine riding a horse over something like Forester Pass all  
half-way covered in snow.

One thing he did not do was travel with light gear. He kept trying to  
give away heavy coats and things no lightweight hiker would ever use.  
He had used his second horse to carry so many heavy things. Maybe  
with ultralight equipment he could have done it with only one horse.  
But I don't know what is required when you travel by horse. Maybe  
living like an old-fashioned cowboy is part of the deal.

His remaining horse, the pack horse, looked healthy enough. But he  
did not seem happy and said he was not having any fun. He kind of  
looked like nothing would be fun for him though, so your mileage may  
vary. You would have an interesting story to tell at the end, that's  
for sure.

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:27:45 -0700
From: "Dr. Ritchey A. Ruff" <ruffwork at ruffwork.com>
Subject: [pct-l]  Shelter Question
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID: <48B77AC1.2070102 at ruffwork.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

My experience has been that single-wall tents (like "The One" or my 
current fav "Nemo GoGo Bivy") work better in dry  (and maybe warmer) 
climates like CA and southern Oregon.  In wet climates like Northern OR 
and WA you get rained on at night: no joke!  I was just on Mt. Hood last 
weekend and my tent was raining on me all night.  The humid air and the 
single wall tent and the cold air are a bad combo.  I'll be using my 
Nemo in CA and southern OR (it worked fine at Crater Lake!) and using a 
dual-wall setup in north OR or WA rain and cold.

Crawling into my flame-proof bivy,
--ruffwork

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:33:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kent Spring <kjssail at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] horse interests on the PCT
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Cc: susan <woodswitch at hughes.net>
Message-ID: <178713.6160.qm at web55905.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

>Would like to know if anyone recently has ridden the PCT (as much as
>possible) in it's entirety? Planning to do that in 09 and would like to
>make contact with equestrians. 
>Gray-haired rider
>Susan

Hi Susan -

There was a fellow this year who went by the trail name of
"Mendorider".   He rode thru California (NoBo).  We played trail tag
for a few days in the desert/Big Bear area.  He was doing about 18 miles a
day,
and had his wife providing some support and other riders occasionally
helping,
as well.  He was originally from Mendocino, and was active in the
long-distance
trail riding community.

I don't know his name, but might be able to dig it up if it is important. 
You can contact me off-list if you want me to keep digging.  I don't know
what his plans were for the snow areas, but believe that horses sometimes
follow
lower altitude trails at times.  That is certainly true around Crater Lake.

Peace, Kent

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:37:20 -0700
From: "Carl Siechert" <carlito at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] horse interests on the PCT
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net, susan <woodswitch at hughes.net>
Message-ID:
	<8fd9157d0808282137r48d334c5m979429eff450944b at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Mendorider = Ed Anderson of Agua Dulce.

On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 9:33 PM, Kent Spring <kjssail at yahoo.com> wrote:

> >Would like to know if anyone recently has ridden the PCT (as much as
> >possible) in it's entirety? Planning to do that in 09 and would
like to
> >make contact with equestrians.
> >Gray-haired rider
> >Susan
>
> Hi Susan -
>
> There was a fellow this year who went by the trail name of
"Mendorider".
> He rode thru California (NoBo).  We played trail tag for a few days in the
> desert/Big Bear area.  He was doing about 18 miles a day, and had his wife
> providing some support and other riders occasionally helping, as well.  He
> was originally from Mendocino, and was active in the long-distance trail
> riding community.
>
> I don't know his name, but might be able to dig it up if it is
important.
>  You can contact me off-list if you want me to keep digging.  I don't

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:43:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: dicentra <dicentragirl at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] starting at ADZPCTKO and (vegetarian) resupply
	strategy.
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID: <73855.34774.qm at web56715.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

A lot of what's in my book, and on my site is geared towards being able to
go into a grocery store and put meals together - no dehydrator, no internet
shopping (more the book than the website).

I would imagine the Bay Area would have a pretty good selection of
groceries.
?
~Dicentra

http://www.onepanwonders.com
http://www.freewebs.com/dicentra 

?

--- On Thu, 8/28/08, Julian Plamann <julian at amity.be> wrote:

From: Julian Plamann <julian at amity.be>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] starting at ADZPCTKO and (vegetarian) resupply
strategy.
To: dicentragirl at yahoo.com
Date: Thursday, August 28, 2008, 9:28 PM

I'm planning on getting food as I go. Just trying to figure out if I'll
be able to get enough food in tiny towns with only convenience stores if I
start
with the pack and end up in town with many other hikers.
I'm in the bay area in California, but lived in Seattle two years ago.
Still miss living there.

-Julian

On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 8:41 PM, dicentra <dicentragirl at yahoo.com> wrote:

Are you don't resupply/bounce boxes or planning on getting food as you go??
If you are in the Seattle area, I'd be happy to help you with food prep and
planning 
?
~Dicentra

http://www.onepanwonders.com
http://www.freewebs.com/dicentra 

?

--- On Thu, 8/28/08, Julian Plamann <julian at amity.be> wrote:

From: Julian Plamann <julian at amity.be>
Subject: [pct-l] starting at ADZPCTKO and (vegetarian) resupply strategy.
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Date: Thursday, August 28, 2008, 7:36 PM

I'm curious about what you all think is the best time for me to start my
thru this next spring considering my resupply strategy...
I plan to keep maildrops to an absolute minimum... as in none if possible.
Instead, I'll be going the resupply-as-I-go route along with a bounce box
for more difficult resupplies. I am not really concerned about doing it this
way as I'm not picky at all when it comes to food... gas-station-esque junk
food is all I seem to crave when I'm hiking anyway. However, I am a
vegetarian which may complicate things a bit. I'd really love to go to the
kickoff because it sounds amazing, but I'm concerned that if I start with
the crowd, I'll have problems finding enough food in the smallest of towns
during the first month or so. I've been thinking of doing what some do and
start a week early and hitch back for the kickoff, but if I could avoid
doing that it would be really great. Also, I'm a pretty quick hiker, so I
don't want to risk hitting the Sierra too early if I start before the
kickoff.

Anyone care to weigh in and help me make up my mind?

I hope you're all enjoying the summer,
Julian
_______________________________________________
Pct-l mailing list
Pct-l at backcountry.net
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:59:09 -0700
From: "William A. Chavez" <wctrekker at dslextreme.com>
Subject: [pct-l] Trail Journal electronics
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID: <877B0046-3F14-4B14-BDF8-77E21B4C5829 at dslextreme.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

Hello guys,

I am planning to hike in '09 and I would like to post my journal on  
line.  It seems to me that many people use the  "Pocket Mail"  
device.  Is this "the best" device?  I think that the device can be  
purchased on line but it would seem that there would be people that  
do not need the device anymore and would like to sell the one they  
have or would it be better to buy a new or different device?

Thanks,
Bill

------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 10:05:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Hank Magnuski <hankm at mtinet.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Trail Journal electronics
To: "William A. Chavez" <wctrekker at dslextreme.com>
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0808291000120.10192 at sv-04.mtinet.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

I think that the Pocket Mail has now been overrun by cellphones/PDAs
that have email capability. You can get signal in most towns and even
in some places on the trail. You'll need some type of data plan for
your cellphone, but it's probably less than the Pocket Mail monthly
charges.

Please recycle your Pocket Mail responsibly.

Hank

On Fri, 29 Aug 2008, William A. Chavez wrote:

> Hello guys,
>
> I am planning to hike in '09 and I would like to post my journal on
> line.  It seems to me that many people use the  "Pocket Mail"
> device.  Is this "the best" device?  I think that the device can
be
> purchased on line but it would seem that there would be people that
> do not need the device anymore and would like to sell the one they
> have or would it be better to buy a new or different device?
>
> Thanks,
> Bill

------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Pct-l mailing list
Pct-l at backcountry.net
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

End of Pct-l Digest, Vol 8, Issue 67
************************************

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:55:53 -0700
From: Hiker97 <hiker97 at aol.com>
Subject: [pct-l] Veggie Advice Needed
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Cc: carolwbruno at yahoo.com, reinholdmetzger at cox.net
Message-ID: <f63de60c.f0b7.4e0b.9fb0.2c41ddda8577 at aol.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi!  I am new to backpacking and my trailname is MugShot.  I heard there are
a lot of nice people on this List, who might be able to help me.

I was wondering if anyone could give me advice about going cookless and
meatless on the trail.  I was thinking about the Vegan style on the trail
too.  I wonder how that would work?

Your new friend and buddy, MugShot

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:59:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Susan Alcorn <backpack45 at yahoo.com>
Subject: [pct-l] Post/pre-trail adjustment
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID: <115327.83130.qm at web31805.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Paul M. writes about the difficulties of post-trail adjustment, and although
I am a section hiker rather than a thru-hiker, I can definitely relate to
what he says about the problems of re-entry. I always find it difficult to
reenter and that's in spite of the fact that I love my home, friends and
family, and "normal" activities (not that he doesn't). Even
though being on
the trail takes adjusting to, it is a simpler life in many ways; the
decisions are about survival (where to eat, set up camp, how many miles,
etc.). At home, we are expected to be "responsible" adults and play
various
roles; we work and play with others in myriad ways much of the time. Our
decisions and interactions with others are much more complicated. 

Paul wonders if the answers to some of his questions will become clearer
over time. Perhaps they will, but since I didn't start long-distance hiking
on the PCT and the Camino trails of Europe until I was in my fifties and
sixties, I'm not sure how much age has to do with it. One thing I have
gotten better at over time is expecting some degree of difficulty with the
transitions and not to beat myself over the head about it. 

It's one of life's realities that making a choice often means giving
something else up. I am fortunate in that I can look back from where I am
(67) and see that my life has been a series of chapters. Obviously each new
chapter builds on the earlier ones, but within most people's lifetimes
there
is time for many adventures and re-creations. 

Thanks for giving us food for thought, Paul. Socrates said, "The
unexamined
life is not worth living."

Happy trails,
Susan Alcorn

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:09:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: dicentra <dicentragirl at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Veggie Advice Needed
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID: <47151.79159.qm at web56709.mail.re3.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

What type of cooking are you doing on the trail? Freezer bag cooking or no?
What kinds of things do you like to eat at home normally? I have a whole
vegetarian section on my site (sig line) - not too vegan though.

Give me more info and I'll send some ideas your way. :)
?
~Dicentra

http://www.onepanwonders.com
http://www.freewebs.com/dicentra 

?

--- On Fri, 8/29/08, Hiker97 <hiker97 at aol.com> wrote:

From: Hiker97 <hiker97 at aol.com>
Subject: [pct-l] Veggie Advice Needed
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Cc: carolwbruno at yahoo.com, reinholdmetzger at cox.net
Date: Friday, August 29, 2008, 4:55 PM

Hi!  I am new to backpacking and my trailname is MugShot.  I heard there are
a
lot of nice people on this List, who might be able to help me.

I was wondering if anyone could give me advice about going cookless and
meatless on the trail.  I was thinking about the Vegan style on the trail
too. 
I wonder how that would work?

Your new friend and buddy, MugShot
_______________________________________________
Pct-l mailing list
Pct-l at backcountry.net
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:48:56 -0700
From: "Dusty Wallace" <dusterbuddy at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Veggies on the trail
To: <Pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <000001c90a3a$38ddf120$aa99d360$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

There are many current thru hikers that are going veggie. I will ask them
when I see then in various WA locations. But my friend S.O.L. is currently
doing all veggie but is cooking and has had no problems resupplying. She is
however relying heavily on boxes that I've been sending out.
www.onepancooking.com has some good dishes but just take out the meat. I
have a problem not looking down in the ingrediance list because there is a
lot of chicken broth or meat byproducts. Yuck!! Best of luck.

Dusty 

------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Pct-l mailing list
Pct-l at backcountry.net
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

End of Pct-l Digest, Vol 8, Issue 69
************************************

------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Pct-l mailing list
Pct-l at backcountry.net
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

End of Pct-l Digest, Vol 8, Issue 70
************************************