[pct-l] Mountain lions and hunting

Josh 559josh at gmail.com
Fri Apr 3 18:33:55 CDT 2009

OMG...Not only are U misrepresenting the truth, but...I won't even go there
with U...

Here are copies of my messages TO YOU:

04/02 11:49PM:
And once the mountain lion pounces on U and its 1st attempt is foiled by the
pack, what is your defense in the pitch-black darkness of the mountains cuz
he's sure not gonna run-off just cuz UR not dead yet???......."

04/03 12:37AM:
This is going from the practical to the absurd.  Walking around with a
pulled knife or gun in hand???  C'mon!  I DO TOTALLY AGREE with U on the
astronomical improbability of a mountain lion attack, but that's not the
only practical reason to carry a gun or knife while on a trek through the

04/03 01:53PM:
""...keep your guns off the trail..."???"

04/03 01:57PM:
""...more lions are hunted down now than at any time in history."  Where is
this coming from??? J/W, Josh"

04/03 02:00PM:
"UR statement wasn't in the form of a "suggestion" nor was my statement
"it's a good idea to carry a gun on the PCT...".  Let's keep things in
context and pertinent. Josh"

Of ALL of those messages ONLY the one re-posted to the forum was the 04/03
01:57PM one where you had replied @ 02:22PM with:
"California State Department of Fish and Game"
And I explained that the reason for that was a very pertinent link.

I had NOT intended this to become so personal...nor have I intentionally
been abrasive or argumentative...although that's were this convo had
arrived.  I apologize for hurting your feelings and will try to be extra
careful to click on the "Reply All" button in future dealings with you.

Don't feel compelled to reply, ok?


-----Original Message-----
From: mark v [mailto:allemande6 at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 4:04 PM
To: Josh
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net; bobnweav at gmail.com
Subject: RE: [pct-l] Mountain lions and hunting

Please stop emailing me.  I respond to the list only when you send your
message to the list.  If someone does not have the list in their "to" or
"cc" field, it's obvious that email isn't meant for the list.

You were sending messages to the list, then seperate ones to me calling me
out.  Then i responded to you, and you copied my response in a message to
the list.   If you don't get what's wrong with that, i can't help anymore.  

I've backed up all my statements in my posts to the list.  Nobody else is
calling for further documentation beyond what i've already given, and i'm
not inclined to waste any more time on this for you.

--- On Fri, 4/3/09, Josh <559josh at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Josh <559josh at gmail.com>
> Subject: RE: [pct-l] Mountain lions and hunting
> To: "'mark v'" <allemande6 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net, bobnweav at gmail.com
> Date: Friday, April 3, 2009, 5:26 PM
> Not sure how U can call it stupid considering that all of the past 
> conversations were included in my post.  Sounds to me like you didn't 
> appreciate being called on your statement which I am still 
> waiting/looking for to find a documented reference.
> The reason that I posted to the Server is that the link I included is 
> quite pertinent to the direction that the initial post has taken.
> As far as 15 messages in 15hrs...how many of those were btwn the 2 of 
> us solely and not as the part of the online "conversation"???  
> 2...3???  I sincerely have no interest in "talking to you" as an 
> individual...if I did, then I would have given you my phone #...but as 
> long as PCT-I is running...and I come across posts that spark my 
> interest, I will continue to reply as I see fit.  As the professor 
> that you are, I'm not sure why conversing civilly rubs you the wrong 
> way anyway.
> <confused>
> Here's another link regarding CA DFG:
> http://www.dfg.ca.gov/publications/docs/history.pdf
> 2008 CA Hunting Regulation:
> http://www.dfg.ca.gov/regulations/08-09-wf-uplnd-lands-regs.pdf
> The ONLY reference to Mountain Lions: 251.5--Possession of Live 
> Mountain Lions
> 1972 to 2007 Chart of Lions Killed under Depredation
> Permits:
> http://www.dfg.ca.gov/news/issues/lion/dep-lions-killed.html
> Posted by Georgi/FireFly:
> "Correct...in CA, they're protected by law. 
> Contracted hunters are allowed,
> tho they usually track with dogs that tree the cat so they stand no 
> chance of escape, which, unless there's been an attack on a human that 
> requires a hunt down and destroy decision, seems somewhat 
> unsportsmanlike.  Ranchers are supposed to get a deprivation permit if 
> livestock is being taken, but most ranchers tend to not wait, and take 
> a 'shoot first and bury immediately' attitude if they're lucky enough 
> to spot the offending cat when they've a rifle in hand.  This makes 
> sense to me...they may never get another chance.  Most ranchers around 
> here don't keep hunting/tracking dogs, mostly working herd dogs that 
> may try to protect livestock and become victims themselves.  A good 
> herd dog is worth hundreds of $ and are prized by their owners.
> FireFly"
> Legally, dogs cannot be used to carry-out depredation permit 
> kills...maybe they can by Govt. Contracted Hunters.  Not sure there.  
> If I was a rancher & I saw one (cougar, bear, whatever) attacking 
> something of mine, I'd shoot 1st & sort things out later too!
> And while I agree that it may be unsportsmanlike, I kinda like that 
> fact insomuch that while there's a part of me that feels that the 
> cougar should have a fighting chance at survival, there's the other 
> part of me that feels that since we (the rest of us) can't hunt them, 
> it's shouldn't be "fun" for the permit holders either...if that made 
> any sense. Lol
> Josh
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mark v [mailto:allemande6 at yahoo.com]
> Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 2:36 PM
> To: Josh
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: RE: [pct-l] Mountain lions and hunting
> Josh, when i'm emailing a reply to you personally, it's really stupid 
> and inappropriate to copy it on a reply to the listserv.
> Please leave me alone.
> I've received something like 15 emails from you in 15 hours now.
> My sources are easily found from googling mountain lion attack 
> statistics.
> I trust them over your word.


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