[pct-l] Pct-l Digest, Vol 24, Issue 27
canoeman at qnet.com
canoeman at qnet.com
Sun Dec 6 13:46:11 CST 2009
SO,,,, APPARENTLY, ,,, Oregonians have so little going on in their lives, that
when VISITORS, or GUESTS, who haven't been in their state before, mispronounce
the names of places, or rivers in their state, or pronounce the name of their
state the way it is spelled, and not the way someone who has been living there
for thirty years does, they consider you a complete rube, or an ignorant
Californian, and an asshole...........
oooooooooooooooo how friendly...................I can't wait to go there.......
:-)
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Sleeping with food everywhere except the Sierra??? (Brett Cosner)
> 2. Re: CA section E (dsaufley)
> 3. Re: CA section F in March/April? (dsaufley)
> 4. Re: cooking systems (Ken Powers)
> 5. Re: Sleeping with food everywhere except the Sierra??? (dsaufley)
> 6. Oregon, tent cooking, and water (Suzannah Swinehart)
> 7. Re: Oregon, tent cooking, and water (Stephen Adams)
> 8. Re: cooking systems (Stephen Adams)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 10:10:41 -0800 (PST)
> From: Brett Cosner <brettcosner at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Sleeping with food everywhere except the Sierra???
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <873456.74076.qm at web63105.mail.re1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Ok so I'm sure food storage topics are discussed often, but I wanted to hear
> an informal poll on the following.
>
> I'm getting the impression that most thru-hikers sleep with their food
> without incident.? When in the Sierra they do this at stealth camps.
>
> On my sobo hike this summer I'm thinking of keeping my food with me at night
> until I reach Sonora Pass where I will be picking up a canister.?? I'll use
> the canister through Kennedy Meadows to appease rangers and be responsible.?
>
>
> How did you store food?? Did anyone experience a bear taking food that they
> slept with, or getting a ticket for not carrying a canister?? How was your
> experience???
>
> Thanks
> Brett
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 10:11:04 -0800
> From: "dsaufley" <dsaufley at sprynet.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] CA section E
> To: "'JIM BANKS'" <jbanks4 at socal.rr.com>, "'JEAN NELSON'"
> <jeanmnelson at email.phoenix.edu>, <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <000c01ca769f$7a084380$6e18ca80$@com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> You're correct, Jim. Both the conservation easement language and the exact
> location of the trail are still being negotiated. It is too premature to
> know when that process will be complete. Upon completion, the actual trail
> will need to be built (in the ballpark of 40+ miles). The reroute
> completion is years off. Exactly how many, I hesitate to say. I don't think
> anyone can at this point.
>
> I'd like to take this opportunity to say what an incredible job the staff of
> the PCTA, alongside their partners in the USFS, have done representing the
> trail and all of our fervent wishes to move this trail where it belongs in
> the mountains and off the Mojave floor. They are true professionals, and we
> are all fortunate to have the team that we do representing the PCT. This is
> no small task, in fact, it's Herculean, and it is taking place against a
> backdrop of many urgent needs elsewhere along the trail. Your support and
> donations are truly needed, and so very much appreciated.
>
> L-Rod
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
> On Behalf Of JIM BANKS
> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 8:28 AM
> To: JEAN NELSON; pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] CA section E
>
> It will be several years before the rerouted trail is done. Maybe L-Rod or
> Anitra will see this and give us more details, but my understanding is that
> it is taking much longer than expected to get the exact location of the
> trail easement worked out. Once that is done there will still be a lot of
> work to do (lots of volunteers will be needed).
>
> I-Beam
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "JEAN NELSON" <jeanmnelson at email.phoenix.edu>
> To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 1:17 AM
> Subject: [pct-l] CA section E
>
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have a question about CA section E. I understand that an agreement has
> > been made with Tejon Ranch and that the trail will be rerouted off the
> > desert floor. That's great news! I'm wondering when the new trail will be
>
> > ready to go. Also, when will it be the best time of year to hike that
> > section? Thanks in advance for your help in planning.
> >
> > Jean Ellero
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-l mailing list
> > Pct-l at backcountry.net
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-l mailing list
> Pct-l at backcountry.net
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 10:21:35 -0800
> From: "dsaufley" <dsaufley at sprynet.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] CA section F in March/April?
> To: "'JEAN NELSON'" <jeanmnelson at email.phoenix.edu>,
> <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <000d01ca76a0$f217a040$d646e0c0$@com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Jean,
>
> March is quite variable, and winter temps and snow can still be expected,
> especially at the higher elevations in the section profile. Winds are
> perhaps the biggest factor in that area, and late winter/early spring is
> often when we see the highest amount of precipitation in the desert.
>
> I am unaware if Mary Barcik and her husband stock the caches that early, but
> I don't think they put out the large caches until it becomes thru-hiker
> season. You might have better luck with natural sources this early,
> however.
>
> Because March is so variable, you might also get a stretch of fair weather,
> too. Some years, the flowers begin to bloom on the desert floor in March.
> I'm reminded of the old saying, "If you don't like the weather, wait five
> minutes."
>
> L-Rod
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
> On Behalf Of JEAN NELSON
> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 1:21 AM
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: [pct-l] CA section F in March/April?
>
> Has anyone hiked CA section F in late March? I've looked at the websites
> showing temps, but I'm wondering about snow on the ground.
>
> Also, are there any water caches along the way? Thanks.
>
> Jean Ellero
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-l mailing list
> Pct-l at backcountry.net
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 10:36:08 -0800
> From: Ken Powers <ken at gottawalk.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] cooking systems
> To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <51FA9B6964CD4975A6107EF0144F95BE at Desktop2008>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>
> This is very similar to our method. The differences are: 1) we pour off the
> drink into mugs before the water boils; 2) we use a fleece jacket or hat as
> the cozy. One of us eats from the pot and used a small amount of water to
> clean the pot. Then one of us drinks the cleaning water. No water is ever
> wasted!
>
> Our stove is a Snow Peak. We have used the same stove since 2000 with no
> flare-ups, no cracked gaskets, no leaky valves, no problems of any kind.
> That's a lot of cooking on the one stove.
>
> We ship fuel with our food (see
> http://www.gottawalk.com/shipping_fuel.htm ). We have tried calculating the
> relative weight gain/loss of carrying a canister stove or alcohol stove for
> 3-4 day resupplies. For 2 of us it is so close we can only argue the
> differences. For 2 of us, heating with a canister is easily more efficient
> and boils water is half the time of an alcohol stove. We love to compare
> stove boil times to our Snow Peak. So far only our home kitchen's induction
> cook top beats it by any significant margin.
>
> We also ship a small zip lock of powdered whole milk with each Mac & Cheese.
>
> Added calories and flavor! (Shipping small bags of white powder can be
> interesting!) The quart zip lock becomes a garbage bag, dirty socks bag, or
> map bag.
>
> Ken
> www GottaWalk com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Erik The Black" <erik at eriktheblack.com>
> To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 8:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] cooking systems
>
>
> Here is what I use for a cooking system.
>
> It has all of the benefits of a Jetboil without the high weight, and none of
> the disadvantages of an alcohol stove:
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> * Stove: MSR Pocket-Rocket (3 oz)
> * Pot: Snowpeak 600ml Titanium Mug (2.8 oz)
> * Fuel: Small isobutene canister (MSR, Snowpeak or Jetboil) (3-7 ounces)
> * Ziploc Baggies
> * Ziploc Cozy made from reflective auto sunshade material, duct tape and
> velcro (1 ounce)
>
> Total weight minus fuel: 6.8 oz (compare to 15 ounces for Jetboil)
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Here is how it works:
>
> 1) Before packing your food transfer it out of its original packaging into
> individual ziploc baggies.
>
> 2) When you are ready to eat put one baggy of food (liptons, couscous,
> mashed potatoes, mac and cheese, stuffing... whatever) inside the pot cozy.
>
> 3) Screw the Pocket Rocket onto the top of the fuel canister and light it
> (no need for windscreens, priming, measuring fuel or rickety pot stands)
>
> 4) Boil appropriate amount of water for food + extra cup for hot drink in
> mug on top of stove (3-5 minutes)
>
> 5) Pour boiling water for food into ziplock baggy and seal ziplock and pot
> cozy (let sit 15 minutes)
>
> 6) In the meantime add drink mix to remaining hot water in mug (hot cocoa,
> coffee, tea, cider, etc.) and enjoy a hot drink while your dinner cooks.
>
> 7) Eat dinner from ziplock baggy and discard. No pot cleaning required
> (except to clean out the remainder of your hot drink)
>
> * A note about how much water to use. Generally 1.5 to 2 cups of water is
> enough to cook most typical backpacking dinners (including a full box of
> macaroni and cheese). You'll figure out the right amount by trail and error.
> But, what is listed on the package is almost always too high).
>
> Happy trails!
>
> Erik the Black
> www.eriktheblack.com
>
>
>
> ...
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-l mailing list
> Pct-l at backcountry.net
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 10:35:24 -0800
> From: "dsaufley" <dsaufley at sprynet.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Sleeping with food everywhere except the
> Sierra???
> To: "'Brett Cosner'" <brettcosner at yahoo.com>, <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <000f01ca76a2$e03c05d0$a0b41170$@com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Remember, the point is to save the bears, not the appeasement of rangers.
> When you get down to it, the rangers are all about saving the bears.
>
> Attitude is everything, and it can make one's load easier to bear (pardon
> the pun).
>
> L-Rod
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
> On Behalf Of Brett Cosner
> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 10:11 AM
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: [pct-l] Sleeping with food everywhere except the Sierra???
>
> Ok so I'm sure food storage topics are discussed often, but I wanted to hear
> an informal poll on the following.
>
> I'm getting the impression that most thru-hikers sleep with their food
> without incident.? When in the Sierra they do this at stealth camps.
>
> On my sobo hike this summer I'm thinking of keeping my food with me at night
> until I reach Sonora Pass where I will be picking up a canister.?? I'll use
> the canister through Kennedy Meadows to appease rangers and be responsible.?
>
>
> How did you store food?? Did anyone experience a bear taking food that they
> slept with, or getting a ticket for not carrying a canister?? How was your
> experience???
>
> Thanks
> Brett
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-l mailing list
> Pct-l at backcountry.net
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 10:53:01 -0800
> From: Suzannah Swinehart <suz_quz at hotmail.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Oregon, tent cooking, and water
> To: PCT L <pct-l at backcountry.net>, <erniec01 at hotmail.com>,
> <steeleye at wildblue.net>, <wanderingbob at comcast.net>
> Message-ID: <BAY144-W245196C341B4343D4B49D492910 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> OK, I wasn't going to respond to this but since it continues...I spend my
> mornings teaching reading to first graders. The term for the vowel sound in
> Oregon is a "schwa", not a short a (as in cat). Saying it with a long e will
> definitely get you funny looks, but a short a would be even funnier. Try it
> aloud. Sorry, Bob :)
>
> It's hard to explain the precise sound of a schwa, but the closest I can come
> is "uh". OR-uh-gun.
>
> I also had several other posts to respond to this morning.
>
> 1) RE: FreeRefill's comment: "I wished to have a Jetboil everytime I heard
> that blubb from them starting it inside their tent to make some hot
> chocolate."
>
> I was originally going to write to remind newbies that while many hikers
> might cook in their stoves, conventional wisdom says that it is NOT
> RECOMMENDED because of the danger of carbon monoxide poisoning. Then I
> started to do some research and learned that the newer butane stoves *may*
> let off lower levels of CO. I haven't done the research, so don't take this
> as truth.
> There was a Backpacking Light article that actually had empirical data on
> this, but since I'm not a subscriber I couldn't access it. Anyone have any
> information? I'm not asking for personal experiences...obviously you're all
> still alive...but actual research that's been done.
>
> 2) RE: Ernie's comment: "I was a tonto...The water looked clean but it wasn't
> running fast. I should have known better."
>
> I'm still cautious even around fast-moving water...because unless you're at
> the source, what's to say that a slow-moving lazy stretch doesn't run through
> a cow pasture 500 ft upstream? To me, a better indicator seems like it would
> be looking at surroundings in general. If you're in an area trafficked with
> people, cows, etc, treat your water. If you can see it coming out of the
> source near the top of a mountain, you're probably safe. Probably.
> Many will dismiss me as being overcautious; to me that's fine. From talking
> to people who have actually had to endure giardia, this is one where I'd
> rather be safe than sorry. Urgh. Hands down.
>
> Cozy inside, waiting for the arctic blast to hit,
> -Chipmunk
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox.
>
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_4:092009
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 11:13:36 -0800
> From: Stephen Adams <reddirt2 at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Oregon, tent cooking, and water
> To: Suzannah Swinehart <suz_quz at hotmail.com>
> Cc: PCT L <pct-l at backcountry.net>, wanderingbob at comcast.net
> Message-ID: <5103CFB4-1C87-447B-B87F-EDCD4D295703 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Orshchwagon.
> just doesn't sound like folks would like this much either.
> Sounds like German for an orchard wagon...
> On Dec 6, 2009, at 10:53 AM, Suzannah Swinehart wrote:
>
> >
> > OK, I wasn't going to respond to this but since it continues...I spend my
> mornings teaching reading to first graders. The term for the vowel sound in
> Oregon is a "schwa", not a short a (as in cat). Saying it with a long e will
> definitely get you funny looks, but a short a would be even funnier. Try it
> aloud. Sorry, Bob :)
> >
> > It's hard to explain the precise sound of a schwa, but the closest I can
> come is "uh". OR-uh-gun.
> >
> > I also had several other posts to respond to this morning.
> >
> > 1) RE: FreeRefill's comment: "I wished to have a Jetboil everytime I heard
> that blubb from them starting it inside their tent to make some hot
> chocolate."
> >
> > I was originally going to write to remind newbies that while many hikers
> might cook in their stoves, conventional wisdom says that it is NOT
> RECOMMENDED because of the danger of carbon monoxide poisoning. Then I
> started to do some research and learned that the newer butane stoves *may*
> let off lower levels of CO. I haven't done the research, so don't take this
> as truth.
> > There was a Backpacking Light article that actually had empirical data on
> this, but since I'm not a subscriber I couldn't access it. Anyone have any
> information? I'm not asking for personal experiences...obviously you're all
> still alive...but actual research that's been done.
> >
> > 2) RE: Ernie's comment: "I was a tonto...The water looked clean but it
> wasn't running fast. I should have known better."
> >
> > I'm still cautious even around fast-moving water...because unless you're at
> the source, what's to say that a slow-moving lazy stretch doesn't run through
> a cow pasture 500 ft upstream? To me, a better indicator seems like it would
> be looking at surroundings in general. If you're in an area trafficked with
> people, cows, etc, treat your water. If you can see it coming out of the
> source near the top of a mountain, you're probably safe. Probably.
> > Many will dismiss me as being overcautious; to me that's fine. From talking
> to people who have actually had to endure giardia, this is one where I'd
> rather be safe than sorry. Urgh. Hands down.
> >
> > Cozy inside, waiting for the arctic blast to hit,
> > -Chipmunk
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Chat with Messenger straight from your Hotmail inbox.
> >
>
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_4:092009
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-l mailing list
> > Pct-l at backcountry.net
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2009 11:19:15 -0800
> From: Stephen Adams <reddirt2 at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] cooking systems
> To: Ken Powers <ken at gottawalk.com>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <FCA1F16C-37EB-4D7F-AA48-89F7815A3826 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I've had a snow Peak about the same amount of time and the o-ring in mine had
> to be replaced about a year ago. I used it a lot.
> I noticed what looked like a small cut or tear in the original o-ring so I
> leak tested it with soapy water and sure as @#!%& it had developed a very
> almost imperceptible leak. Enough to loose your fuel if the stove were
> attached to the canister very long. So keep an eye on it.
> On Dec 6, 2009, at 10:36 AM, Ken Powers wrote:
>
> > This is very similar to our method. The differences are: 1) we pour off the
>
> > drink into mugs before the water boils; 2) we use a fleece jacket or hat as
>
> > the cozy. One of us eats from the pot and used a small amount of water to
> > clean the pot. Then one of us drinks the cleaning water. No water is ever
> > wasted!
> >
> > Our stove is a Snow Peak. We have used the same stove since 2000 with no
> > flare-ups, no cracked gaskets, no leaky valves, no problems of any kind.
> > That's a lot of cooking on the one stove.
> >
> > We ship fuel with our food (see
> > http://www.gottawalk.com/shipping_fuel.htm ). We have tried calculating the
>
> > relative weight gain/loss of carrying a canister stove or alcohol stove for
>
> > 3-4 day resupplies. For 2 of us it is so close we can only argue the
> > differences. For 2 of us, heating with a canister is easily more efficient
>
> > and boils water is half the time of an alcohol stove. We love to compare
> > stove boil times to our Snow Peak. So far only our home kitchen's induction
>
> > cook top beats it by any significant margin.
> >
> > We also ship a small zip lock of powdered whole milk with each Mac &
> Cheese.
> > Added calories and flavor! (Shipping small bags of white powder can be
> > interesting!) The quart zip lock becomes a garbage bag, dirty socks bag, or
>
> > map bag.
> >
> > Ken
> > www GottaWalk com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Erik The Black" <erik at eriktheblack.com>
> > To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> > Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 8:47 AM
> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] cooking systems
> >
> >
> > Here is what I use for a cooking system.
> >
> > It has all of the benefits of a Jetboil without the high weight, and none
> of
> > the disadvantages of an alcohol stove:
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > * Stove: MSR Pocket-Rocket (3 oz)
> > * Pot: Snowpeak 600ml Titanium Mug (2.8 oz)
> > * Fuel: Small isobutene canister (MSR, Snowpeak or Jetboil) (3-7 ounces)
> > * Ziploc Baggies
> > * Ziploc Cozy made from reflective auto sunshade material, duct tape and
> > velcro (1 ounce)
> >
> > Total weight minus fuel: 6.8 oz (compare to 15 ounces for Jetboil)
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Here is how it works:
> >
> > 1) Before packing your food transfer it out of its original packaging into
> > individual ziploc baggies.
> >
> > 2) When you are ready to eat put one baggy of food (liptons, couscous,
> > mashed potatoes, mac and cheese, stuffing... whatever) inside the pot
> cozy.
> >
> > 3) Screw the Pocket Rocket onto the top of the fuel canister and light it
> > (no need for windscreens, priming, measuring fuel or rickety pot stands)
> >
> > 4) Boil appropriate amount of water for food + extra cup for hot drink in
> > mug on top of stove (3-5 minutes)
> >
> > 5) Pour boiling water for food into ziplock baggy and seal ziplock and pot
> > cozy (let sit 15 minutes)
> >
> > 6) In the meantime add drink mix to remaining hot water in mug (hot cocoa,
> > coffee, tea, cider, etc.) and enjoy a hot drink while your dinner cooks.
> >
> > 7) Eat dinner from ziplock baggy and discard. No pot cleaning required
> > (except to clean out the remainder of your hot drink)
> >
> > * A note about how much water to use. Generally 1.5 to 2 cups of water is
> > enough to cook most typical backpacking dinners (including a full box of
> > macaroni and cheese). You'll figure out the right amount by trail and
> error.
> > But, what is listed on the package is almost always too high).
> >
> > Happy trails!
> >
> > Erik the Black
> > www.eriktheblack.com
> >
> >
> >
> > ...
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-l mailing list
> > Pct-l at backcountry.net
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-l mailing list
> > Pct-l at backcountry.net
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-l mailing list
> Pct-l at backcountry.net
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
>
> End of Pct-l Digest, Vol 24, Issue 27
> *************************************
>
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