[pct-l] Burying vs Packing Out TP

[Matt Thyer]

I agree with Gary,

I've been poking around the CFR store online
<http://www.gpoaccess.gov/ecfr/index.html>.  In practice Wilderness Guards,
people who act as trail rangers in legally designated wilderness areas
despite administration, are given a CFR book and ticket register.  I did
this for six years in Colorado when I was younger and my book mostly stayed
in my ruck even though I understood what the code was.  This may have been
in part because I worked on a very large and high wilderness (Flat Tops
Wilderness ~235,000 acres) which didn't see much traffic.

I'll tell you all right now that if you buried, burned or carried out your
TP you'd have gotten no trouble from me.  Let it bloom all over the hill
sides however and I'd have chased you down with my ticket book.

Good rule of thumb, the more populated an area is the more care you need to
take in dealing with your poo.  I know that along the northern sections of
the PCT there are pit toilets dug in high population areas even in
Wilderness.  Usually pretty cushy and most have a great view.

2 cents,

MT

-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
On Behalf Of Gary Wright
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:18 PM
To: PCT MailingList
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Burying vs Packing Out TP


On Dec 8, 2009, at 3:36 PM, Bill Burge wrote:
> For the San Gorgonio link, read down to the section "Waste":
> 
> It is a violation of (Federal Code) 36 CFR 261.57(g) to bury your 
> toilet paper in the San Gorgonio Wilderness.

Thanks for that pointer.  I find these sorts of legal details interesting. I
was curious if that federal regulation was new and if it applied to all
federally managed lands or just San Gorgonio or just wilderness areas or...
If you don't find these sorts of details interesting, stop reading now.

It turns out that 36 CFR 261.57 simply permits the administrator of forest
service lands to issue orders that prohibit certain activities in wilderness
areas. Similarly 36 CFR 261.58 allows the administrator to issue orders
regulating occupancy and use.  So it isn't really correct to say that 36 CFR
261.57(g), for example, prohibits the burying of toilet paper.  Section (g)
just says that orders *can be issued* to prohibit "Disposing of debris,
garbage, or other waste".  Also 36 CFR 261.58(e) doesn't require a hiker to
carry a hand trowel but it does allow the administrator to issue orders
prohibiting "camping".

This page <http://www.sgwa.org/regs.htm> starts with: "THE FOLLOWING ARE
PROHIBITED BY THE FEDERAL CODE OF REGULATIONS (CFR)" and proceeds to refer
to 36CFR261.58(e) as requiring "a shovel or hand trowel in possession for
use in burying human waste".  That seems incorrect to me since that
particular regulation just allows the administrator to prohibit camping. The
activities can only be prohibited by a specific order and the nature and
scope of the order is limited by those regulations.

So digging around some more I found some actual orders. For example
<http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/sanbernardino/about/forder3.shtml> is the order
that requires "having a shovel or hand trowel in possession for burying
human waste and fire control during overnight camping" and that order is
pursuant to CFR 261.58(e).

It isn't clear to me that such an order is valid since the regulation just
allows camping to be prohibited where as other subsections allow the details
to be specified by the order.

So it seems to me that there is some sloppiness in the way the rules and
regulations are being cited and that PCT hikers might be subject to many
more rules than they are generally aware of.

Gary Wright (Radar)


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