[pct-l] Remember When

Tue Dec 8 17:58:20 CST 2009

"Did I ever tell the story of . . ."

How it took a year of planning to put together all of the details and logistics for my 1977 hike. Scouring through the huge amount of materials; the NGS book, the 1st edition guide book and USGS 1:500,000 maps. Yep, that was all I had to reference. Wow, how times have changed.

Greg

Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 18:22:56 -0500From: Ernie Castillo <erniec01 at hotmail.com>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Remember whenTo: <jomike at cot.net>, <brettcosner at yahoo.com>Cc: pct-l at backcountry.netMessage-ID: <BLU136-W205CC1A87B6537BC3F876ED88F0 at phx.gbl>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1""Did I ever tell you the story of . . . There I was . . . "In 1980, we relied on the PCT Registers that were at the major supply spots. BYPO (Bring Your Own Pencil) was the rule.How times have changed.Ernie Castilloerniec01 at hotmail.com248 884 5201 > From: jomike at cot.net> To: brettcosner at yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 09:36:07 -0800> CC: pct-l at backcountry.net> Subject: [pct-l] Remember when> > I will be using including a blog site, spot tracker, picture site, youtube, and google earth etc. ? > __________________________________________________________________________________________> > Remember when, if we had information to share, we'd just write a letter and deposit it in a mail box? :)> > are we there yet> > _______________________________________________

Greg Hummel

" Best to travel light, carry little, keep it simple."

-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-request at backcountry.net
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Sent: Tue, Dec 8, 2009 3:36 pm
Subject: Pct-l Digest, Vol 24, Issue 43

Send Pct-l mailing list submissions to    pct-l at backcountry.netTo subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit    http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-lor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to    pct-l-request at backcountry.netYou can reach the person managing the list at    pct-l-owner at backcountry.netWhen replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of Pct-l digest..."Today's Topics:   1. Re: Burying vs Packing Out TP (Matt Thyer)   2. What chilled my bones (Dale Combs)   3. Re: Getting into CAnada (Gary Wright)   4. Foot pain - top of arch (J J at Ridge Trail)   5. Re: Foot pain - top of arch (Gary Wright)   6. Re: canada entry (Steve Clark)   7. Spring Hiking (Will M)   8. Re: Burying vs Packing Out TP (Gary Schenk)   9. Re: Remember when (Ernie Castillo)  10. Burying vs Packing Out TP (Paul Magnanti)  11. Remember when (Paul Magnanti)----------------------------------------------------------------------Message: 1Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 13:36:09 -0800From: "Matt Thyer" <matt_thyer at hotmail.com>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Burying vs Packing Out TPTo: "'Gary Wright'" <gwtmp01 at mac.com>,  "'PCT MailingList'"    <pct-l at backcountry.net>Message-ID: <COL109-DS13645E7673F15873734A2EEE8F0 at phx.gbl>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"I agree with Gary,I've been poking around the CFR store online<http://www.gpoaccess.gov/ecfr/index.html>.  In practice Wilderness Guards,people who act as trail rangers in legally designated wilderness areasdespite administration, are given a CFR book and ticket register.  I didthis for six years in Colorado when I was younger and my book mostly stayedin my ruck even though I understood what the code was.  This may have beenin part because I worked on a very large and high wilderness (Flat TopsWilderness ~235,000 acres) which didn't see much traffic.I'll tell you all right now that if you buried, burned or carried out yourTP you'd have gotten no trouble from me.  Let it bloom all over the hillsides however and I'd have chased you down with my ticket book.Good rule of thumb, the more populated an area is the more care you need totake in dealing with your poo.  I know that along the northern sections ofthe PCT there are pit toilets dug in high population areas even inWilderness.  Usually pretty cushy and most have a great view.2 cents,MT-----Original Message-----From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]On Behalf Of Gary WrightSent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:18 PMTo: PCT MailingListSubject: Re: [pct-l] Burying vs Packing Out TPOn Dec 8, 2009, at 3:36 PM, Bill Burge wrote:> For the San Gorgonio link, read down to the section "Waste":> > It is a violation of (Federal Code) 36 CFR 261.57(g) to bury your > toilet paper in the San Gorgonio Wilderness.Thanks for that pointer.  I find these sorts of legal details interesting. Iwas curious if that federal regulation was new and if it applied to allfederally managed lands or just San Gorgonio or just wilderness areas or...If you don't find these sorts of details interesting, stop reading now.It turns out that 36 CFR 261.57 simply permits the administrator of forestservice lands to issue orders that prohibit certain activities in wildernessareas. Similarly 36 CFR 261.58 allows the administrator to issue ordersregulating occupancy and use.  So it isn't really correct to say that 36 CFR261.57(g), for example, prohibits the burying of toilet paper.  Section (g)just says that orders *can be issued* to prohibit "Disposing of debris,garbage, or other waste".  Also 36 CFR 261.58(e) doesn't require a hiker tocarry a hand trowel but it does allow the administrator to issue ordersprohibiting "camping".This page <http://www.sgwa.org/regs.htm> starts with: "THE FOLLOWING AREPROHIBITED BY THE FEDERAL CODE OF REGULATIONS (CFR)" and proceeds to referto 36CFR261.58(e) as requiring "a shovel or hand trowel in possession foruse in burying human waste".  That seems incorrect to me since thatparticular regulation just allows the administrator to prohibit camping. Theactivities can only be prohibited by a specific order and the nature andscope of the order is limited by those regulations.So digging around some more I found some actual orders. For example<http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/sanbernardino/about/forder3.shtml> is the orderthat requires "having a shovel or hand trowel in possession for buryinghuman waste and fire control during overnight camping" and that order ispursuant to CFR 261.58(e).It isn't clear to me that such an order is valid since the regulation justallows camping to be prohibited where as other subsections allow the detailsto be specified by the order.So it seems to me that there is some sloppiness in the way the rules andregulations are being cited and that PCT hikers might be subject to manymore rules than they are generally aware of.Gary Wright (Radar)_______________________________________________Pct-l mailing listPct-l at backcountry.nethttp://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l------------------------------Message: 2Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 13:37:29 -0800 (PST)From: Dale Combs <comebackwalking at yahoo.com>Subject: [pct-l] What chilled my bonesTo: pct-l at backcountry.netMessage-ID: <145933.71304.qm at web46116.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1when I read about?carbon monoxide poisoningfrom cooking in a tent was the commentthat the risk of death increases along with the level of the person's outdoor experience.It happens especially?to experts. Not weekend?warriors. And I had the rare feeling that the author was talking directly to me....cue up the Twilight Zone music.?      ------------------------------Message: 3Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 16:38:23 -0500From: Gary Wright <gwtmp01 at mac.com>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Getting into CAnadaTo: Mary Kwart <mkwart at gci.net>Cc: pct-l at backcountry.netMessage-ID: <38D20FD5-400B-4E1A-BAD1-BEB463760D67 at mac.com>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-asciiOn Dec 8, 2009, at 3:51 PM, Mary Kwart wrote:> All you need is a passport--right? I have one, no problem. If you need something else, I need to know.Incorrect.  Because the PCT is an unguarded border crossing there are additional rules.Information about permits is at: http://www.pcta.org/planning/before_trip/permits.aspI'm pretty sure it has been discussed here before but I think it is illegal to pass from Canada back into the US via the PCT. While Canada has procedures for the unguarded crossing, the US simply forbids the crossing.Gary Wright (Radar)------------------------------Message: 4Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 14:06:26 -0800From: J J at Ridge Trail <jj at ridgetrailhiker.com>Subject: [pct-l] Foot pain - top of archTo: PCT MailingList <pct-l at backcountry.net>Message-ID: <A7EC241D-EF21-4410-BEB8-94FE356C4371 at ridgetrailhiker.com>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-asciiGreetings,I'm going to the VA Medical Center in San Francisco in two days to have my foot looked at. I have considerable soreness along the top of the arch of my left foot, especially at night after a two or three hour local daily hike.There is probably a wealth of experience of foot pain - and solutions on this list. So, I'm asking.Walk well,Jim Keener ( J J )_________________jj at ridgetrailhiker.comhttp://ridgetrailhiker.com------------------------------Message: 5Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 17:12:42 -0500From: Gary Wright <gwtmp01 at mac.com>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Foot pain - top of archTo: J J at Ridge Trail <jj at ridgetrailhiker.com>Cc: PCT MailingList <pct-l at backcountry.net>Message-ID: <6C634AEA-3F82-47A3-97F5-B212BDF5F784 at mac.com>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-asciiOn Dec 8, 2009, at 5:06 PM, J J at Ridge Trail wrote:> Greetings,> > I'm going to the VA Medical Center in San Francisco in two days to have my foot looked at. I have considerable soreness along the top of the arch of my left foot, especially at night after a two or three hour local daily hike.> > There is probably a wealth of experience of foot pain - and solutions on this list. So, I'm asking.My thoughts:  I had severe foot pain and swelling hiking into Cascade Locks.  ER said it was probably a stress fracture but stress fractures don't show on an x-ray until the bone starts to heal (10-14 days).  A more expensive bone scan can show stress fractures sooner but I didn't want to pay for the extra scans (the ER visit itself was already expensive).Upon advice of other hikers, I went to a sports medicine specialist the next day and he was able to give me a much better diagnosis (stress fracture on the 3rd metatarsal) than the ER. I ended up cutting my thru-hike short and walking around with a boot on my foot for 6-8 weeks to prevent the foot from flexing.So my 2-cents is to see a sports medicine specialist if you think it was a hiking injury of some sort.Gary Wright (Radar)------------------------------Message: 6Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 14:27:21 -0800 (PST)From: Steve Clark <hiker823 at yahoo.com>Subject: Re: [pct-l] canada entryTo: pct-l at backcountry.net, Bob Vance <hikerbob62 at yahoo.com>Message-ID: <116275.88081.qm at web59706.mail.ac4.yahoo.com>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1Bring bail money, and a prepaid attorney.--- On Tue, 12/8/09, Bob Vance <hikerbob62 at yahoo.com> wrote:From: Bob Vance <hikerbob62 at yahoo.com>Subject: [pct-l] canada entryTo: pct-l at backcountry.netDate: Tuesday, December 8, 2009, 7:15 AMOn the other hand - if I was pretty sure I was going to be rejected for apermit - I would not apply for one and just enter anyway.? That way I couldat least claim ignorance.? If you have been rejected for an entry permit itis hard to claim ignorance.you've hit the nail on the head here.just to let others know about Canadian regulations let me tell you my situation. i don't have a prayer of getting an entry permit. among other things i got a d.u.i. 22 years ago(don`t drink and drive kiddies!).in the past it was easy to enter. you just lied"convicted of a crime?no not me" its different now. Canada is now connected into the U.S.? NCIC. they don't care if you got a d.u.i. in your model t on the way to Coolidge's inaugural.you are forever barred from entering Canada ,unless you pay a butt load of money for a certificate of rehabilitation.? i don't have that kind of money and from what Ive heard they have no problem turning people away.my plan is to enter with a prepaid bus ticket to Vancouver ,a pre paid train ticket to Seattle,then arrive at the last minute.i really don`t want to screw up people who come after me and piss off the Canadians,but this is the situation I'm in.I'm doing this hike.anyalternative plans would be welcome.? ? ? _______________________________________________Pct-l mailing listPct-l at backcountry.nethttp://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l      ------------------------------Message: 7Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 14:55:50 -0800From: Will M <jalan04 at gmail.com>Subject: [pct-l] Spring HikingTo: pct-l <pct-l at backcountry.net>Message-ID:    <417c00f70912081455r7495ae25p51b6aee11ba057f0 at mail.gmail.com>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1I would like to do a decent size section in early spring.  I have alreadyhiked North  up to Echo summit.  Are there any sections free of snow or withgenerally lower snow North of Echo that early.  I'm hoping to do about100-150 miles, preferably in California.Jalan------------------------------Message: 8Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 15:03:11 -0800From: Gary Schenk <gwschenk at socal.rr.com>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Burying vs Packing Out TPTo: pct-l at backcountry.netMessage-ID: <200912081503.11600.gwschenk at socal.rr.com>Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"On Tuesday 08 December 2009 11:37:40 Sean Nordeen wrote:> On another forum, some of us got into an arguement over burying your TP> verses packing it out on the PCT.  My own experience was that many packed> it out (and some don't use TP at all).  But some of the others claimed that> they know of no one who didn't bury theirs while hiking the PCT (obviously> we hiked with different kinds of people and didn't hike with each other).>> However, I know that in some places on the trail, it is illegal to bury> your TP. Yosemite, SEKI, and the San Gorgonio WIlderness in the San> Bernardino NF immediately come to my mind since I backpack there often. > Where else are you not allowed to bury?  There are alot of agencies and> wilderness areas, so its a pain to go through all of them, but I figured> people here should know their own local areas.Whether it is legal or not, the correct thing to do is to pack out your TP. Burning TP might sound good, but more than one forest fire has started that way. Buried TP has a way of being dug up by critters.A thruhiker may never pass this way again, but there are many people who use the PCT regularly on their mountain visits, and a field of TP is sort of disgusting.Yes, this will add ounces to your pack weight...LNTGary------------------------------Message: 9Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 18:22:56 -0500From: Ernie Castillo <erniec01 at hotmail.com>Subject: Re: [pct-l] Remember whenTo: <jomike at cot.net>, <brettcosner at yahoo.com>Cc: pct-l at backcountry.netMessage-ID: <BLU136-W205CC1A87B6537BC3F876ED88F0 at phx.gbl>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1""Did I ever tell you the story of . . . There I was . . . "In 1980, we relied on the PCT Registers that were at the major supply spots. BYPO (Bring Your Own Pencil) was the rule.How times have changed.Ernie Castilloerniec01 at hotmail.com248 884 5201 > From: jomike at cot.net> To: brettcosner at yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 09:36:07 -0800> CC: pct-l at backcountry.net> Subject: [pct-l] Remember when> > I will be using including a blog site, spot tracker, picture site, youtube, and google earth etc. ? > __________________________________________________________________________________________> > Remember when, if we had information to share, we'd just write a letter and deposit it in a mail box? :)> > are we there yet> > _______________________________________________> Pct-l mailing list> Pct-l at backcountry.net> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l                      _________________________________________________________________Windows Live Hotmail is faster and more secure than ever.http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/hotmail_bl1/hotmail_bl1.aspx?ocid=PID23879::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-ww:WM_IMHM_1:092009------------------------------Message: 10Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 15:33:52 -0800 (PST)From: Paul Magnanti <pmags at yahoo.com>Subject: [pct-l] Burying vs Packing Out TPTo: PCT MailingList <pct-l at backcountry.net>Message-ID: <92448.71424.qm at web112109.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii What a crappy conversation! :D(Sorry. I can't resist bad jokes. Mea Culpa. )************************************************************The true harvest of my life is intangible.... a little stardust caught, a portion of the rainbow I have clutched--Thoreauhttp://www.pmags.comhttp://www.redbubble.com/people/pmags/arthttp://www.facebook.com/pmags------------------------------Message: 11Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 15:36:19 -0800 (PST)From: Paul Magnanti <pmags at yahoo.com>Subject: [pct-l] Remember whenTo: PCT MailingList <pct-l at backcountry.net>Message-ID: <528350.46162.qm at web112103.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii>>How times have changed. I also remember using canvas tents in my Boy Scout days. Every tent having their own cooking fire.And hiking in Sears Toughskin jeans and K-mart Texas Steer work boots.Personally, I am glad some things have changed! :D************************************************************The true harvest of my life is intangible.... a little stardust caught, a portion of the rainbow I have clutched--Thoreauhttp://www.pmags.comhttp://www.redbubble.com/people/pmags/arthttp://www.facebook.com/pmags------------------------------_______________________________________________Pct-l mailing listPct-l at backcountry.nethttp://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-lEnd of Pct-l Digest, Vol 24, Issue 43*************************************