[pct-l] whippet
Stephen
reddirt2 at earthlink.net
Wed Feb 4 02:20:13 CST 2009
I prefer my matched poles with the axe on my pack, or vise versa, I only
want the axe in hand if I have it off the pack.
----- Original Message -----
From: "colin mcCann" <mccannimal at hotmail.com>
To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 12:16 AM
Subject: [pct-l] whippet
hello, all...planning for an '09 thru hike.. getting psyched..been looking
at the black diamond whippet pole for the sierra.. it is heavier than some
of the lighter ice axes out there.. (14oz.).too heavy, in my opinion, to
justify hanging it on my pack when not in use..(i'd just assume bring an
axe).. I was thinking of bouncing one of my normal poles ahead and going
with the one pole and the whippet for the sierra, but the pick doesn't come
detached from the pole on the latest model.wondering if anyone out there has
hiked with one of these things... how would it work out as a normal trekking
pole with the pick attached, coupled with the one regular pole? it's a long
stretch from k.m. to echo lake or what have you..better to just stick with
the traditional ice axe?let me know your thoughts..ok...been enjoying the
list.. see ya'll on the trail.. colin> From: pct-l-request at backcountry.net>
Subject: Pct-l Digest, Vol 14, Issue 27> To: pct-l at backcountry.net> Date:
Tue, 3 Feb 2009 23:17:16 -0600> > Send Pct-l mailing list submissions to>
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Today's Topics:> > 1. Re: stream crossing death (Tortoise)> 2. Re:
stream crossing death (Tortoise)> 3. Re: Crossings (Tortoise)> 4. Re:
PCT Numbers & Stehekin P. O. (patti kulesz)> 5. Re: PCT Numbers &
Stehekin P. O. (Brian Lewis)> 6. Mono Creek South at VVR Ford? (Stephen)>
7. Stehekin P. O. (jason moores)> >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------> >
Message: 1> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009 19:52:20 -0800> From: Tortoise
<Tortoise73 at charter.net>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] stream crossing death> To:
pct-l at backcountry.net> Message-ID: <498910F4.3010200 at charter.net>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed> > I should
learn from this, especially the picture!> > I would likely have tried to
cross with my pack on. Of course the > picture doesn't show the whole
stream so the rest may have changed my mind.> > Live and learn. don't die
during the lesson.> > Tortoise> > <> He who finishes last, wins! <>> > > >
kmurray at pol.net wrote:>> Yeah, keep your pack straps tight. Have you ever
practiced getting out? >> Do you know what your bodies' physiologic response
is when suddenly>> immersed in near freezing water? You die if you are
wrong, you are not>> going to practice this, and guess? Good luck!>>>>
Picture of backpacker crossing the stream that killed him:>>>>
http://www.climber.org/TripReports/images/1400/1432-DelOnAnotherDifficultRockHoppingCrossing.jpg>>>>
Accident Report Form submitted to Accidents in North American
Mountaineering>>>> Report submitted by Ed Lulofs, 1195-4 W Calle De Las
Estrellas, Azusa, CA>> 91702, elulofs at yahoo.com. I was there.>>>> Date of
Accident: July 16, 2004>>>> Geographic Location: Rundle glacier outwash
stream, Owl River, Baffin>> Island, Auyuittuq National Park, Canada's
Nunavut.>>>> Names (or use a number) and ages of person directly involved:>>
Del Hildebrand Age: 61>> Ed Lulofs Age: 51>>>> Total Number of Persons in
Party or Class: 2>>>> Details of the Accident: Lost footing crossing fast
icy stream with heavy>> pack. Failed to discard pack in the water. Dragged
through 1/2 km of>> rapids. CPR failed to revive. Probable drowning,
possible concussion or>> broken neck.>>>> Experience Level: [ ] none or
little ( 1st year) [X] moderate (1-3 years)>> [ ] experienced [ ] other>>>>
Narrative Description of Accident (use extra sheet if necessary):>> It
started to rain about 4AM. Del woke at 5AM and saw that the group near>> us
had crossed the stream. He liked to hike in the rain. He had finished,>> the
day before, the paperback book that he had brought and so had nothing>> to
do or read while waiting. He was the trip leader and decided to try to>>
cross. I hurriedly packed up. There were smaller stream crossing of 1/2 km>>
before we reached the main stream, and as always, he was several hundred>>
meters ahead of me. Not a good idea. He was pacing up and down the main>>
channel looking for the best place to cross for the 5 minutes that it took>>
me to catch up to him. Finally he picked a spot. He HAD his pack>>
unbuckled. After he was a few steps out into the stream and I could see>>
that it was difficult for him and that there was a good chance of him>>
falling, I took off my pack and put it down on the gravel bar. He had one>>
foot on the other shore-I thought that he had made it, then he fell in and>>
was washed the 10 meters downstream and back to my side of the stream. I>>
helped him get up. Water was dripping from his pack. I suggested that we>>
camp and dry out. He didn't want to spend a third night at this site. Del>>
had only brought one hiking pole. I handed him one of mine and told him to>>
throw it back to me after he crossed. This had worked for me in the Yukon.>>
He was concerned about losing it and handed it back to me. He violated>>
another rule and went back to the same place to try to cross again. Now my>>
memories become less clear as things started happening fast. I think that>>
he only made it halfway across this second time. He fell down, was washed>>
the 10 meters back to near where I was, got a grip on the river bed while>>
on his hands and knees. He was only there for seconds and then he was>>
carried downstream again. I remember him looking very surprised. He was>>
only carried 10 meters when he started tumbling head over heals
backwards.>>>> With two poles and without my pack, I was just barely able to
cross. Not>> crossing was not an option as all of the little streams that we
had just>> previously crossed had merged into an obviously uncrossable
stream just>> downstream from our position on the gravel bar. I hurried
downstream as>> fast as I could watching for him - hoping he was clinging to
a rock. After>> 1/2 km-it must have taken me 10 minutes to get there, I saw
his pack,>> praying that he wasn't with it. I was near panic now. I recall
ignoring>> rapids and stepping in chest deep holes in the stream to reach
him.>>>> I found him in about six inches of water. The current had stripped
off>> most of his clothes. He still had one arm through his pack strap! I
don't>> specifically have a memory of his face in the water, but it must
have been>> as I wanted to get him out of the water. I grabbed his arm and
started>> pulling him toward shallow water. But with the pack still
attached, the>> current pulled him out of my grasp and he was going
downstream again. I>> decided that I couldn't get him out of the water by
myself. Later I>> calculated that his pack could weight 200 pounds filled
with water, and he>> was 6 foot tall and so almost 200 pounds. I couldn't do
anything with>> 300-400 pounds in the water. Couldn't even roll him over
because of his>> pack.>>>> There was an emergency shelter with a radio
nearby, so I ran the 200>> meters over to it. I saw three packs in front and
started calling for>> help. Ian, Dene, & Jordon who had crossed earlier were
inside. Ian put>> Jordon on the radio and sat phone to call for help. Ian,
Dene, & I ran>> back to help Del. Del had always carried his boots tied
together over his>> neck when we were wearing our water sandals. The boots
were twisted about>> his neck. My knife was in my pack 1/2 km upstream. Ian
cut the boots off.>> We separated Del from his pack. Ian wanted to start CPR
there in the 6>> inch flowing icy water, I wanted him taken to shore. We
compromised and>> carried him to the gravel bar. This is the first time that
I looked at my>> watch and it was 7:04AM. I instructed Ian and Dene to
assist me with CPR>> for 40-50 minutes while we were kneeling on gravel with
water trickling>> through. My knees are still healing from being rubbed raw
while kneeling>> on the gravel. Then we carried Del to the stream bank where
Ian and I>> worked for about 30 minutes until I was becoming hypothermic. We
then all>> stayed in the emergency shelter until the helicopter evacuated
us.>>>> What we didn't know until after the accident was that the other
group,>> Ian, Dene, and Jordon, had crossed went at 4AM, nearly 3 hours
before we>> attempted it, and crossed together as a group whereas Del
attempted to>> cross by himself.>>>>>> Analysis of Accident: What knowledge
and techniques will help prevent>> future accidents?>> Before stepping into
the water: practice several times: pretend that I am>> falling in the water
and discard my pack.>>>> When someone falls in the stream, shout: drop your
pack.>>>> Don't hurry in the wilderness; patience, think!>>>> Follow the
known rules for stream crossing.>>>> Don't carry your boots around your
neck.>>>> Look for crossings away from a long rapids.>>>>>> Additional
Comments:>> Del was an intelligent, experienced backpacker in excellent
condition.>> Impatience and not discarding his pack caused his death. Icy
water should>> have helped the CPR to revive him. I suspect he also had a
concussion>> and/or broken neck.>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________>> Pct-l mailing list>>
Pct-l at backcountry.net>>
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>>>> > >
> ------------------------------> > Message: 2> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009
19:54:13 -0800> From: Tortoise <Tortoise73 at charter.net>> Subject: Re:
[pct-l] stream crossing death> To: pct-l at backcountry.net> Message-ID:
<49891165.6030509 at charter.net>> Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed> > I should learn from this, especially
the picture!> > I would likely have tried to cross with my pack on. Of
course the > picture doesn't show the whole stream so the rest may have
changed my mind.> > Live and learn. don't die during the lesson.> >
Tortoise> > <> He who finishes last, wins! <>> > > > kmurray at pol.net
wrote:>> Yeah, keep your pack straps tight. Have you ever practiced getting
out? >> Do you know what your bodies' physiologic response is when
suddenly>> immersed in near freezing water? You die if you are wrong, you
are not>> going to practice this, and guess? Good luck!>>>> Picture of
backpacker crossing the stream that killed him:>>>>
http://www.climber.org/TripReports/images/1400/1432-DelOnAnotherDifficultRockHoppingCrossing.jpg>>>>
Accident Report Form submitted to Accidents in North American
Mountaineering>>>> Report submitted by Ed Lulofs, 1195-4 W Calle De Las
Estrellas, Azusa, CA>> 91702, elulofs at yahoo.com. I was there.>>>> Date of
Accident: July 16, 2004>>>> Geographic Location: Rundle glacier outwash
stream, Owl River, Baffin>> Island, Auyuittuq National Park, Canada's
Nunavut.>>>> Names (or use a number) and ages of person directly involved:>>
Del Hildebrand Age: 61>> Ed Lulofs Age: 51>>>> Total Number of Persons in
Party or Class: 2>>>> Details of the Accident: Lost footing crossing fast
icy stream with heavy>> pack. Failed to discard pack in the water. Dragged
through 1/2 km of>> rapids. CPR failed to revive. Probable drowning,
possible concussion or>> broken neck.>>>> Experience Level: [ ] none or
little ( 1st year) [X] moderate (1-3 years)>> [ ] experienced [ ] other>>>>
Narrative Description of Accident (use extra sheet if necessary):>> It
started to rain about 4AM. Del woke at 5AM and saw that the group near>> us
had crossed the stream. He liked to hike in the rain. He had finished,>> the
day before, the paperback book that he had brought and so had nothing>> to
do or read while waiting. He was the trip leader and decided to try to>>
cross. I hurriedly packed up. There were smaller stream crossing of 1/2 km>>
before we reached the main stream, and as always, he was several hundred>>
meters ahead of me. Not a good idea. He was pacing up and down the main>>
channel looking for the best place to cross for the 5 minutes that it took>>
me to catch up to him. Finally he picked a spot. He HAD his pack>>
unbuckled. After he was a few steps out into the stream and I could see>>
that it was difficult for him and that there was a good chance of him>>
falling, I took off my pack and put it down on the gravel bar. He had one>>
foot on the other shore-I thought that he had made it, then he fell in and>>
was washed the 10 meters downstream and back to my side of the stream. I>>
helped him get up. Water was dripping from his pack. I suggested that we>>
camp and dry out. He didn't want to spend a third night at this site. Del>>
had only brought one hiking pole. I handed him one of mine and told him to>>
throw it back to me after he crossed. This had worked for me in the Yukon.>>
He was concerned about losing it and handed it back to me. He violated>>
another rule and went back to the same place to try to cross again. Now my>>
memories become less clear as things started happening fast. I think that>>
he only made it halfway across this second time. He fell down, was washed>>
the 10 meters back to near where I was, got a grip on the river bed while>>
on his hands and knees. He was only there for seconds and then he was>>
carried downstream again. I remember him looking very surprised. He was>>
only carried 10 meters when he started tumbling head over heals
backwards.>>>> With two poles and without my pack, I was just barely able to
cross. Not>> crossing was not an option as all of the little streams that we
had just>> previously crossed had merged into an obviously uncrossable
stream just>> downstream from our position on the gravel bar. I hurried
downstream as>> fast as I could watching for him - hoping he was clinging to
a rock. After>> 1/2 km-it must have taken me 10 minutes to get there, I saw
his pack,>> praying that he wasn't with it. I was near panic now. I recall
ignoring>> rapids and stepping in chest deep holes in the stream to reach
him.>>>> I found him in about six inches of water. The current had stripped
off>> most of his clothes. He still had one arm through his pack strap! I
don't>> specifically have a memory of his face in the water, but it must
have been>> as I wanted to get him out of the water. I grabbed his arm and
started>> pulling him toward shallow water. But with the pack still
attached, the>> current pulled him out of my grasp and he was going
downstream again. I>> decided that I couldn't get him out of the water by
myself. Later I>> calculated that his pack could weight 200 pounds filled
with water, and he>> was 6 foot tall and so almost 200 pounds. I couldn't do
anything with>> 300-400 pounds in the water. Couldn't even roll him over
because of his>> pack.>>>> There was an emergency shelter with a radio
nearby, so I ran the 200>> meters over to it. I saw three packs in front and
started calling for>> help. Ian, Dene, & Jordon who had crossed earlier were
inside. Ian put>> Jordon on the radio and sat phone to call for help. Ian,
Dene, & I ran>> back to help Del. Del had always carried his boots tied
together over his>> neck when we were wearing our water sandals. The boots
were twisted about>> his neck. My knife was in my pack 1/2 km upstream. Ian
cut the boots off.>> We separated Del from his pack. Ian wanted to start CPR
there in the 6>> inch flowing icy water, I wanted him taken to shore. We
compromised and>> carried him to the gravel bar. This is the first time that
I looked at my>> watch and it was 7:04AM. I instructed Ian and Dene to
assist me with CPR>> for 40-50 minutes while we were kneeling on gravel with
water trickling>> through. My knees are still healing from being rubbed raw
while kneeling>> on the gravel. Then we carried Del to the stream bank where
Ian and I>> worked for about 30 minutes until I was becoming hypothermic. We
then all>> stayed in the emergency shelter until the helicopter evacuated
us.>>>> What we didn't know until after the accident was that the other
group,>> Ian, Dene, and Jordon, had crossed went at 4AM, nearly 3 hours
before we>> attempted it, and crossed together as a group whereas Del
attempted to>> cross by himself.>>>>>> Analysis of Accident: What knowledge
and techniques will help prevent>> future accidents?>> Before stepping into
the water: practice several times: pretend that I am>> falling in the water
and discard my pack.>>>> When someone falls in the stream, shout: drop your
pack.>>>> Don't hurry in the wilderness; patience, think!>>>> Follow the
known rules for stream crossing.>>>> Don't carry your boots around your
neck.>>>> Look for crossings away from a long rapids.>>>>>> Additional
Comments:>> Del was an intelligent, experienced backpacker in excellent
condition.>> Impatience and not discarding his pack caused his death. Icy
water should>> have helped the CPR to revive him. I suspect he also had a
concussion>> and/or broken neck.>>>>>>>>
_______________________________________________>> Pct-l mailing list>>
Pct-l at backcountry.net>>
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>>>> > >
> ------------------------------> > Message: 3> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2009
20:23:33 -0800> From: Tortoise <Tortoise73 at charter.net>> Subject: Re:
[pct-l] Crossings> To: mark v <allemande6 at yahoo.com>> Cc:
pct-l at backcountry.net> Message-ID: <49891845.6020102 at charter.net>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed> > or carry an
inflatable raft with paddle.> > Tortoise> > <> He who finishes last, wins!
<>> > > > mark v wrote:>>>> Yes you're right. When fording the Columbia
River, i really ought to loosen my pack straps. Still, i would recommend
waiting to see if the river goes down. Usually in the morning it's only 180
feet deep, instead of 190 feet. >>>>>> >>
_______________________________________________>> Pct-l mailing list>>
Pct-l at backcountry.net>>
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>>>> > >
> ------------------------------> > Message: 4> Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009
20:50:20 -0800 (PST)> From: patti kulesz <peprmintpati88 at yahoo.com>>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT Numbers & Stehekin P. O.> To:
pct-l at backcountry.net, jason moores <jmmoores at hotmail.com>> Message-ID:
<564205.77423.qm at web54402.mail.yahoo.com>> Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=iso-8859-1> > what a bunch of jerks!> > patti> > --- On Tue, 2/3/09,
jason moores <jmmoores at hotmail.com> wrote:> > From: jason moores
<jmmoores at hotmail.com>> Subject: [pct-l] PCT Numbers & Stehekin P. O.> To:
pct-l at backcountry.net> Date: Tuesday, February 3, 2009, 7:44 PM> > > I don't
have any definitive answer to the question of how many start/finish each
year. I think that someone counts the entries at both borders but that
number is imprecise since not everyone signs in and out.> > The bit of
insight that I can lend is this. As of the end of Sept. the Stehekin Post
Mistress, Adel, claimed to have received 300 packages. By the second week of
Oct. over 80 boxes had not been picked up. Some people send more than one
resupply box at a time, not everyone stops in Stehekin and so on, but I find
it an interesting set of numbers nun the less.> > A heads-up to anyone
planning to send packages to Stehekin. Don't count on the boxes being
returned to you if you fail to pick them up. The post office feels that it
is too expensive to ship 80+ boxes back down lake on the Lady Expess. They
do hold the boxes for aprox. 6+ months before disposing of them. I know for
a fact that they don't resell hiker goods in the store at the landing, but I
can't guarantee that someone doesn't benifit from unclaimed boxes. > > Also,
Melissa and I heard several complaints of resupply boxes being stolen... by
other hikers we believe. We know of at least 3 hikers having their boxes
coming up missing in Stehekin, and one being broken into. Stories of this
having happened at several other stops on the trail this year leads me to
belive that this is more of a trail wide problem than a Stehekin one. Many
people have been using buckets and tool boxes as bounce boxes, one of the
reasons is they can be locked up. I would hate to think that theft is a
growing problem on the trail. > > At Kennedy Meadows in '06 I was pointed to
a back room and told to go find my own box, unsupervised. If I were the
dishonest type... > > I'm relating this so that people can consider the
possiblity of this happening on the trip. If I had special medication needs
I might reconsider trustin my meds. to the care of a small resort.> > chef>
> ps> To: The sensitive reader> > No, this is not more fear mongering, just
one more "Reality" of the trail. > > > >
_________________________________________________________________> Hotmail?
goes where you go. On a PC, on the Web, on your phone. >
http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/learnmore/versatility.aspx#mobile?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_WL_HM_versatility_121208 >
_______________________________________________> Pct-l mailing list>
Pct-l at backcountry.net>
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l> > > > >
> ------------------------------> > Message: 5> Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009
20:51:33 -0800> From: Brian Lewis <brianle8 at gmail.com>> Subject: Re: [pct-l]
PCT Numbers & Stehekin P. O.> To: pct-l at backcountry.net> Message-ID:>
<bd5c16ca0902032051n1f919725naec1c53e8957742b at mail.gmail.com>> Content-Type:
text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1> > Jason wrote:> "I don't have any definitive
answer to the question of how many start/finish> each year. I think that
someone counts the entries at both borders but that> number is imprecise
since not everyone signs in and out."> > > One factor here is that there's a
trick to signing the register at the> Canadian border. This is something
that I hadn't heard of beforehand ---> the register is in the miniature
Washington Monument. The top comes off and> it's inside. So while I was
there, I didn't see the register and thus> didn't sign it (I wasn't going to
walk back the 9 miles just to sign ...).> > Something to keep in mind for
anyone that (however long or short their trip)> gets to the northern
monument.> > > W.r.t. the Stehekin P.O., I happened to be there when some
folks were> looking for their packages. Because it's a tiny P.O., there
were actually> packages stacked up outside the little P.O. office, though my
vague> recollection is that packages didn't go missing during office hours
(?).> The person running the post office gave the impression that this was>
definitely unusual. I think the big concern due to it being that>
particular post office is that a lot of people mail their passport there.> I
have no idea if it will be well secured for 2009, but this years class>
might want to consider getting their passports at an earlier stop. Or>
perhaps call the Stehekin P.O. and ask if they ever figured out how the>
packages were being taken in 2008 --- or if I remember correctly, sometimes>
just opened, pilfered for obvious valuables, and taped shut.> > > Brian
Lewis / Gadget '08> http://postholer.com/brianle> >
> ------------------------------> > Message: 6> Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009
21:10:55 -0800> From: "Stephen" <reddirt2 at earthlink.net>> Subject: [pct-l]
Mono Creek South at VVR Ford?> To: "PCT-1" <Pct-l at backcountry.net>>
Message-ID: <001401c98686$faa9a010$498d8304 at Stephen>> Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"> > Someone mentioned Mono Creek on one of
the other threads. It's been nine or ten years since I rambled through
there. Is my memory failing too, I thought Mono Creek South was bridged.
Of course they have a way of getting loose. >
> ------------------------------> > Message: 7> Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009
22:21:07 -0700> From: jason moores <jmmoores at hotmail.com>> Subject: [pct-l]
Stehekin P. O.> To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>> Message-ID:
<COL109-W89A21BB50B64BD91BB339C1C30 at phx.gbl>> Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="Windows-1252"> > > The Stehekin P. O. received 80 more packages in
'08 than '07 (I happened to ask Adel if she was receiving more packages than
last year, so she looked it up). The P. O. itself is very small, so most of
the boxes are kept locked in rooms above the office where non postal workers
have access. > > Adel is a wonderful woman who truly loves hikers, but she
is getting on in years and is only one person (another woman helps out once
a week, Adel handles most of the boxes). To be honest she has become
overwhelmed by the volume she is receiving.> > Melissa and I love Stehekin,
and are even planning on returning there to live in 2010. That being said,
I'm still planning on sending our passports somewhere else.> > jason> >
_________________________________________________________________> Windows
Live? Hotmail??more than just e-mail. >
http://windowslive.com/howitworks?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_howitworks_012009>
> ------------------------------> >
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http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l> > > End of Pct-l
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