[pct-l] WTA on Suiattle River Crossing repair

[Jeff Whitmer]

We had NFS wilderness that butted right up against NPS wilderness. We were
separated by a pass. We used crosscuts on our side, the NPS used chainsaws
on theirs. Also the clarify, I think there is a difference between using a
chainsaw for maintenance versus taking a snowmobile out there for
recreation. It is hard to draw that line though. If you wanted to be really
extreme, we could ban helicopters for rescue or stop "improving" for man
maintaining trails in the first place. I am of the opinion that we should
allow chainsaws (when necessary), etc for maintenance and everyone I talked
to that summer agreed. Again, I am not sure about explosives and excavators.
I never asked.

I was always told that the two departments just took differing opinions on
wilderness. I really don't know why, other than they just do. Both operate
under the same act of 1964. They just interprete it differently. Do you know
why?


On 5/9/09, linda.hungerford <linda.hungerford at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> I think the Forest Service issue is in the Wilderness Act of 1964, which
> authorized their Wilderness.  It is very clear about the wilderness being a
> place for non-motorized, non-mechanical use.  So the issue for them is not
> so much do trail users mind chainsaws, but if we start using chainsaws and
> power drills and jackhammers, how on earth can we argue that mountain biking
> is an inappropriate and prohibited wilderness use under the Wilderness Act?
> Or snowmobiles in winter, which don't actually touch the ground?  Park
> Service wilderness has different authorizations for making their
> administrative decisions; the Forest Service is in a position of needing to
> be much more defensive of Wilderness Status.
>
> linda
> (FS Region 5 1987-1998)
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Whitmer" <jeff.whitmer at gmail.com>
> To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 12:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] WTA on Suiattle River Crossing repair
>
>
> I wish I had known about this far enough in advance to provide my thoughts
>> to the Forest Service.
>>
>> I volunteered for Sequoia National Forest for a summer. Most of it was
>> slinging a misery whip (cross cut saw) to clear massive trees. Almost
>> everyone we saw on the trail was genuinely appreciative of our efforts to
>> clear the trees, but almost everyone asked why we used the 100 year old
>> technology rather than a modern chainsaw. There are many reasons why I
>> preferred the crosscut, but the official reason was "wilderness." The NFS
>> wouldn't allow anything else in the wilderness. I asked every person I met
>> and no one had any objections to using a chainsaw in the wilderness. Less
>> than a mile away the NPS used chainsaws in their designated wilderness.
>> The
>> Forest Service is very old and backwards. We were eventually cleared to
>> use
>> chainsaws to reclaim a long forgotten trail that has many, many
>> similarities
>> to the PCT in glacier that has been "cut off." And this wasn't even a
>> National Scenic Trail! It was a "going away gift" from the district
>> ranger.
>>
>> I know excavators and explosives are a lot different, but the general mood
>> I
>> took away from that summer is that most wilderness users are okay with
>> putting up with non-wilderness approved devices for the the purposes of
>> trail maintenance. Of course, the bridge is a whole different story, as
>> that
>> is "permanent structure." Permanent until the Suiattle decides to do away
>> with it again, that is.
>>
>> Anyways, if they can make a bridge that they are confident will last a
>> long
>> time, I will be one of the first to sign up and help them, if they are
>> taking volunteers.
>>
>> Perhaps Ken Murray will chime in, as he pitched in quite a bit with the
>> chainsaws in the Sierra.
>>
>> -Jeff
>>
>> On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 5:36 AM, Diane at Santa Barbara Hikes dot com <
>> diane at santabarbarahikes.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On May 9, 2009, at 6:00 AM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Seems like all the hikers have gotten across the area for the last
>>> > 6 years
>>> > in all kinds of wild weather just fine. Why fix what's not broken ??
>>> >
>>> > PCT MOM
>>>
>>> For stock?
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>