[pct-l] risk reduction on swift water crossings

[Ken Powers]

Yup, you got it right. I had them confused.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Burge" <bill at burge.com>
To: "Pacific Crest Trail List" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 8:00 PM
Subject: Re: [pct-l] risk reduction on swift water crossings



Are you sure you aren't thinking of "Man VS Wild" with the young, ex- 
British Special Forces?

He does lots of that ridiculous stuff.

Survivorman is Les Stroud and he is usually more sedate.

BillB



On Nov 24, 2009, at 7:45 PM, Ken Powers wrote:

> This reminds me of my most un-favorite TV show, Survivorman. This jerk
> promotes building a raft and floating down the river to get out of the
> Sierra. I guess he has never heard of the water falls along these  
> raging
> rivers. By the time you hear the roar of the falls you have no way  
> to get
> back to shore. I think that same thing applies to trying to float  
> down the
> river/creek when you slip. You need to get to shore ASAP.
>
> I've heard of a hiker pinned to a rock just below Evolution Creek in  
> 2000.
> Fortunately two big guys were there to retrieve the hiker from mid  
> stream.
>
> Percentage wise, few hikers get into trouble crossing these streams.  
> But you
> need to be aware and be careful of the crossings.
>
> Ken
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kea" <keahiker at gmail.com>
> To: "Pacific Crest Trail List" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 6:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] risk reduction on swift water crossings
>
>
> If there is any chance, you may "go for a dip" while crossing, then  
> you
> should waterproof your pack; ie seal open bags and tie the pack top  
> so water
> can not pour in.  All of you important gear should already be in  
> waterproof
> bags and if you pack does not have a high degree of waterproofness,  
> then *
> everything* should be in a plastic bag - pack liner.  If you then go  
> in,
> your pack will float; and be buoyant enough to support you.
>
> What to do if you are washed down (opinions vary):
>
> Technique 1:  Lie on your chest on your (buoyant) pack until you reach
> calmer water when you can make it to shore.  The pack will protect  
> you from
> rocks.  Keep your feet up to prevent damage from rocks.
>
> Technique 2:  Abandon your pack and float down on your back, feet  
> first.
> Use your feet to fend off rocks.
>
> Both techniques have the disadvantage of it being difficult to stand  
> up to
> exit the river.  Once off your feet, this can be extremely  
> difficult.  Be
> very very careful that your foot does not get trapped between two  
> rocks.  If
> it does, your will go to the bottom of the river and the force of  
> the river
> will make it next to impossible to recover from.
>
> Kea.
>
>
>
> 2009/11/25 <herbstroh at charter.net>
>
>> As others have commented, I would NOT be connected to a rope on a  
>> swift
>> water crossing. If you slip you will not be able to pull yourself  
>> and pack
>> upstream against the current while holding your breath underwater. It
>> would
>> be better to wash downstream, oust the pack and try and scramble to  
>> a rock
>> or shore.
>>
>> You can almost always find a better place to cross than where the  
>> trail
>> hits the water. Even if that is a mile up or down stream. Better to  
>> take
>> the
>> time and find something less risky.
>>
>> Whether to unhook the lap belt is an "it depends" decision to me.  
>> If the
>> crossing is on a log or involves a hop, an unhooked belt could lead  
>> to the
>> pack shifting and throwing me off balance. If balance is critical, I
>> normally leave it buckled. But if its a wet foot crossing and  
>> sudden moves
>> are less likely, then I unbuckle.
>>
>> If one does fall, getting out of the pack is the first thing you  
>> must do.
>> It will immediately fill with water and become a 100 pound anchor.
>>
>> Herb
>>
>>
>> ---- David Plotnikoff <david at emeraldlake.com> wrote:
>>> Hello from a longtime list-lurker.
>>>
>>> Folks, I hesitate to broach this subject because I haven't had cause
>>> to use the technique myself, but .... in theory at least, it's
>>> possible to safely self-belay across fast water by carrying a short
>>> (>20m) stretch of climbing rope, plus a belay device and a locking
>>> biner. Run the rope around a stout tree on the bank you're starting
>>> from, double through the ATC, which is attached by the locker to  
>>> your
>>> pack's hip belt, and have at it, facing upstream and crab-walking
>>> sideways. One hand on a hiking pole, the other on your self-belay
>>> brake hand. Safe on the other side, unclip the ATC and pull the
>>> doubled rope across after you.
>>>
>>> Sounds clear in theory. Like I said ... being the fair-season PCT
>>> type, I haven't had to do it myself. But it's something to think
>>> about for those of you who are intent on leaving KM early. Does it
>>> sound like a lot of extra weight to carry? Weigh ALL the variables
>>> carefully. If you're far ahead of the pack and the melt, you're on
>>> your own. Waiting for another hiker or two to facilitate a safer
>>> crossing will probably not be practical. Going commando with no
>>> protection and nobody else around may well be suicidal at places  
>>> such
>>> as Rock, Wallace or Bear creeks. So this might be a reasonable  
>>> weight
>>> addition for aggressive early season folks to consider. Be sure to
>>> practice the mechanics BEFORE your trip ...
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> DP
>>>
>>> www.emeraldlake.com/pctguide/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pct-l mailing list
>>> Pct-l at backcountry.net
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-l mailing list
>> Pct-l at backcountry.net
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-l mailing list
> Pct-l at backcountry.net
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-l mailing list
> Pct-l at backcountry.net
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

_______________________________________________
Pct-l mailing list
Pct-l at backcountry.net
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l