[pct-l] Testing of Bear Cannisters / URSACK

[Matt Thyer]

Ken,

You've nailed me for sure.  My goal is to carry as little weight as possible; I live to hike, I love to run, and in my spare time I think about ways to make these activities even better.  I'm currently holding my breath waiting for the high country to melt enough that I can get up there without danger of avalanche.

A complete engineered approach (the path I'd chose if given the option) would include a firm understanding of the theory behind the object, but would require adequate field analysis as well as post production tweaking to correct for problems which can only be discovered in the field.  Bear canisters are interesting to me because this is currently the only safety device I carry in my summer base-weight pack that isn't first aid.  So far I've never had to use it (just bought one last year in fact), I'd actually prefer never having to need it.  It sounds to me that folks in the Sierras have much more acute bear problems than I've ever had to deal with in the PNW.

I agree with you regarding funding of effective testing.  Field testing is where we get the most valuable data.  Unfortunately, it becomes impossible to test new artifacts in the field if there is regulation in place precluding use of anything which hasn't been considered theoretically or by regulation first.  Nothing works all the time; Yellow-yellow illustrates this point most acutely.  We're dealing with a variety of limiting factors and risks including habituation by "bad" hikers and variation in bear motivation, location, and capability; thus my conclusion that these are "paper seatbelts".

Again 2 cents,

MT

-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Murray [mailto:kmurray at pol.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2010 2:31 PM
To: Matt Thyer
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Testing of Bear Cannisters / URSACK

Don't know what you've been reading, but bear cans DO work, more than 99% of the time.  Virtually all of the rest are operator error.
Nothing "paper seatbelt" about that.

The only current exception is "Yellow-Yellow", the bear back east that has figured it out.  Jamie Hogan, owner of Bear Vault (and an engineer), was ALSO at the ADZPCTKO, and is very generous with his time, and totally open in discussing this all.

http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index.ssf/2009/07/smarterthantheaveragebear_yell.html

You certainly take an engineering approach to things.  I think that most people don't trust engineering approaches, as opposed to real-world approaches.  After all, engineers have categorically, unequivocally proven that bees cannot fly.

In a world in which there is very limited funding, I'd imagine most would want the funds spent proving something worked, rather than documenting the theory of how something might work in exhaustive detail.