[pct-l] Pct-l Digest, Vol 26, Issue 45

Tue Feb 9 12:56:20 CST 2010

________________________________
From: "pct-l-request at backcountry.net" <pct-l-request at backcountry.net>
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Sent: Tue, February 9, 2010 7:23:07 AM
Subject: Pct-l Digest, Vol 26, Issue 45

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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: ranger rick (AsABat)
  2. Re: , planning, rangers, (Kathryn Zimmerman)
  3. Re: Ursacks? (Thomas Jamrog)
  4. Re: Rangers (Ellen Shopes)
  5. Re: ups  your pack (Ellen Shopes)
  6. Re: Ursacks? (Steve McAllister)
  7. Re: , planning, rangers, (Kathryn Zimmerman)
  8. Re: ups your pack (Kathryn Zimmerman)
  9. Further Mt. Whitney permit clarification (Kathryn Zimmerman)
  10. Re: tent stakes (tarp stakes, too)
      (Diane at Santa Barbara Hikes dot com)
  11. PCT Song (The Incredible Bulk)
  12. Re: Ursacks? (Daniel Bailey)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 21:43:00 -0800
From: AsABat <asabat at 4jeffrey.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] ranger rick
To: canoeman at qnet.com
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID:
    <cc4cf8ff1002082143j3be63cdfr7f7694943fc65acd at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I haven't seen Ranger Rick in quite some time. Last time was too many years
ago near Glen Pass. I think we talked for an hour about ham radios (believe
it or not!). He ended up buying the radio I recommended for backcountry use.
Not sure where he's stationed now.

AsABat

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 00:53:21 -0500
From: Kathryn Zimmerman <thebaglady07 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] , planning, rangers,
To: Len Glassner <len5742 at gmail.com>
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID:
    <745414f91002082153s31efc506u6c0ee444a6af4ae5 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

A Whitney permit is not needed if you are approaching from the PCT, the
west.  It's only need if you are coming in from the Whitney Portal  through
the Whitney Zone from the East.  This has been very confusing and poorly
worded both on the PCTA site and the Inya Wilderness site.  But we finally
got that clarified.

Bag Lady

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 9:01 PM, Len Glassner <len5742 at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 2:09 PM, Joel Fisler <pct at fisler.ch> wrote:
> > I have the same question: I didnt put a date, I just wrote late June or
> early July or something like that and now on my permit it says: July 1st.
> Does that mean I have to be there on that date or can it be a few weeks
> before or after? Thanks for clarifications.
>
> I doubt any thru-hiker hits the top of Whitney on the exact day
> specified.  And I doubt a 'few week' variance wouldn't raise the ire
> of a ranger.  It would be different if you came up from the east side,
> which is much more heavily regulated.
>
> If you decided to switch from a NOBO to SOBO hike, creating a
> multimonth difference, maybe I'd ask the PCTA if I needed a new piece
> of paper.
>
> >
> > On 08.02.2010, at 12:11, ambery-80243 at mypacks.net wrote:
> >
> >> This leads me to a question about the Whitney permits that I haven't
> seen addressed here.  On the permit you put in an "approximate" Whitney
> date.  If you decided to flip-flop for whatever reason, and you end up going
> through Whitney Portal a month or more later than this date, is this still
> acceptable, and are we still within our rights to use the same permit?
> >
> >
> Just to be clear, the 'portal' is 6K feet below the summit, on the
> east side.  That's where the store and the burgers are.  No portal
> burger for the typical thru.
> _______________________________________________
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-- 
- Kathryn

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 05:19:24 -0500
From: Thomas Jamrog <balrog at midcoast.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Ursacks?
To: "Jim Bravo" <jimbravo at wildblue.net>
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID: <8EFD6B1D-7D61-43B5-A043-876A7535201D at midcoast.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii

I am trying out a new Ursack Minor,which is for rodents, not bears.  They were on sale a while ago.  They are made of a fabric that is said to be impenetrable to rodents.  The thing looks and feels like a traditional stuff sack.  I will go to a bear canister when needed.
Uncle Tom 

On Feb 8, 2010, at 11:04 PM, Jim Bravo wrote:

> Opsacks 

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 03:58:07 -0600
From: "Ellen Shopes" <igellen at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Rangers
To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <1C41F609653F45E98C759B690DA18740 at ELLEN>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
    reply-type=original

I vowed I wasn't going to get suck into this conversation...

Just so you know my background, I worked as a law enforcement Ranger for 
several years at various national parks.  Because of this background and 
because I truly want to protect the resource, I tend to follow rules.

No, the parks don't officially establish 'quotas' for tickets, but 
managements vary as to how strictly they expect rules/regulations to be 
enforced.  And even without quotas, Rangers vary alot in how they perceive 
their role.  For example, one year at Grand Canyon, the Rangers in the 
corridor use area (Bright Angel Trail, etc) established a game to see who 
got the most points over the busy season: a ranger got one point for every 
ticket he/she wrote, had one point taken away for every evacuation he/she 
'allowed'.  The person who racked up the most points won.

Some parks do encourage more of a police presence, even in the backcountry. 
I've never encountered this in Sequoia/Kings Canyon.  But Yosemite...Last 
year, being the 3rd time the JMT, my husband and I planned to see a few new 
sites along the way.  When we picked up our permit at the Tuolumne RS, we 
had a long conversation with the Ranger about trail conditions in the 
Ireland drainage (off of Lyell).  The next day, we planned to go up Tuolumne 
Pass, down Ireland, and rejoin the JMT to camp (something that would have 
been legal at Grand Canyon).  Just short of the pass, we ran into a Ranger, 
who upon checking our permit, told us we were off itinerary and subject to 
citation.  He allowed us to backtrack to Lyell.

But this is one of those instances where I sure wanted to argue the 
absurdity:
    1.  The Ranger at the station and the one in the backcountry had 
different views of the regs
    2.  I doubt that it is illegal to day hike up Tuolumne Pass, down 
Ireland, and out Lyell to Tuolumne.  But because we had on backpacks instead 
of day packs, we were illegal.
    3.  This did nothing that I could see to 'protect the resource'. 
Indeed, since we ended up hiking more miles by turning around than we would 
have otherwise, we caused more impact on the trail.

I wrote a long letter to the park at the end of our trip and received no 
reply.  I also wrote one to SEKI, congratulating them on their excellent 
Rangers.

Ellen
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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 04:10:28 -0600
From: "Ellen Shopes" <igellen at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] ups  your pack
To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <98E3113AE98C40FB8410067BE46C99CB at ELLEN>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
    reply-type=original

I like this idea...but where do you ship it to?  A hotel you plan to stay 
at?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <canoeman at qnet.com>
To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 1:07 PM
Subject: [pct-l] ups your pack

> This works for me.
> I don't carry luggage on planes any more, I UPS it to my destination.
> It saves all problems of going through security, plus you can do E check 
> in at
> kiosk, dont have to get in line, boarding pass right away.
> Especially since luggage fees can be as much as 60.00 bucks now.
> The last two times I have flown  with luggage, they have lost part of my
> luggage.
> I.m luggage free, when  I fly on the evil airlines.
> canoeman
>

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 06:35:37 -0500
From: Steve McAllister <brooklynkayak at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Ursacks?
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID:
    <e38b9fd81002090335u13048246x9db69c6daae711da at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Sometimes stealth camping doesn't even work.
I had coyotes try to get into my Ursack far from the trail and
campsite. I guess I had hung it low enough that they were able to
reach it by jumping , hanging by their teeth and whipping their heads
bag and forth.
They gave up after a while.

All it did was put some very minor tooth marks in the bag.

Bears are only one reason to use one.

On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 5:19 AM, Thomas Jamrog <balrog at midcoast.com> wrote:
> I am trying out a new Ursack Minor,which is for rodents, not bears. ?They were on sale a while ago. ?They are made of a fabric that is said to be impenetrable to rodents. ?The thing looks and feels like a traditional stuff sack. ?I will go to a bear canister when needed.
> Uncle Tom
>
> On Feb 8, 2010, at 11:04 PM, Jim Bravo wrote:
>
>> Opsacks
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Pct-l at backcountry.net
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>

-- 
If you look good and dress well, you don't need a purpose in life.
                -- Robert Pante, fashion consultant

------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 09:09:09 -0500
From: Kathryn Zimmerman <thebaglady07 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] , planning, rangers,
To: "Jim & Janet Ake" <jake2003at at sbcglobal.net>
Cc: "pct-L backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID:
    <745414f91002090609i4fffbcb7ve97db6ac67c6700d at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

*This is the wording on the PCTA Permit page:*

"The U.S. Forest Service has implemented a $15 reservation fee to climb Mt.
Whitney, exit and re-enter the Whitney Portal on the east side."

*And this is the wording on the Permit:*

*Part B - Mt. Whitney Reservation(Whitney Portal Eastern Side)- *

*And the form asks the question*

  "Do you plan to access Whitney Portal: Yes: No: "

*and defaults to NO.*

Further, if you click on the link on the PCTA Permit page under Mt Whitney
permit you go to the Inyo Nat'l Forest site and can view the map that better
explains all this.  The trail we hike in on is outside the Whitney
Zone.<http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/inyo/recreation/wild/zonelarge.shtml>

But I agree with you, it's not very clear.

Consider it a donation, and they probably get lots of them.

Bag Lady

<http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/inyo/recreation/wild/zonelarge.shtml>
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Jim & Janet Ake <jake2003at at sbcglobal.net>wrote:

> Great!!  I just sent my $30 for a permit for Whitney to PCTA because their
> thru hike permit form indicates that you have to.  There is no information
> on the form to indicate otherwise.
>
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 09:12:43 -0500
From: Kathryn Zimmerman <thebaglady07 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] ups your pack
To: canoeman at qnet.com
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID:
    <745414f91002090612u1fdf0144hfc6b5bece4bfbbd5 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Canoeman,

What are the shipping charges usually?  I only pay $15 to check a bag and it
seems it would cost much more than that.

Bag Lady

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 2:07 PM, <canoeman at qnet.com> wrote:

> This works for me.
> I don't carry luggage on planes any more, I UPS it to my destination.
> It saves all problems of going through security, plus you can do E check in
> at
> kiosk, dont have to get in line, boarding pass right away.
> Especially since luggage fees can be as much as 60.00 bucks now.
> The last two times I have flown  with luggage, they have lost part of my
> luggage.
> I.m luggage free, when  I fly on the evil airlines.
> canoeman
>
>
>
>
> Mom said ;
> Have you all considered shipping your pack and stuff UPS instead of paying
> luggage fees and possibly loosing it ??
>
> PCT MOM
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-l mailing list
> Pct-l at backcountry.net
> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>

-- 
- Kathryn

------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 09:26:44 -0500
From: Kathryn Zimmerman <thebaglady07 at gmail.com>
Subject: [pct-l] Further Mt. Whitney permit clarification
To: "pct-L backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID:
    <745414f91002090626s6fa69a83jd2714401b47fce9d at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

at Backpacker45.com: <http://www.backpack45.com/pctfaq.html>

Permits Get your thru hiker permit from the PCTA if you are going 500 miles
or more. Pay them $15 and get a Whitney stamp* if you plan to exit east over
Whitney Portal. **The normal permit is all you need to just summit Whitney
from the west side and return to the pct. *

The red large font is my addition.  Too bad it's not stated that clearly
anywhere else!

Bag Lady

------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 06:33:53 -0800
From: Diane at Santa Barbara Hikes dot com
    <diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] tent stakes (tarp stakes, too)
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID:
    <BB0E4DFD-69B3-4F25-A504-DDA250A15157 at santabarbarahikes.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

I bought the titanium stakes with my tent from Gossamer Gear. Turned  
out they worked fine for the four corners but I needed something  
beefier for the front and back ends. I ended up finding stakes on the  
trail. One was a very light, large aluminum hook. I use that for the  
back. The other was a large Y-shaped straight stake that I use for  
the front. I also found a smaller X shaped stake but I haven't used  
it. Carried it for backup. I only carried one extra stake for backup.
On Feb 8, 2010, at 9:37 PM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:
> Here's a thrilling gram-weenie writing prompt for PCT-L discourse:  
> stakes.
> Stakes for your tent, stakes for your tarp. What kind(s) do you use  
> and why?

------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:19:24 -0800
From: The Incredible Bulk <ki6asp at gmail.com>
Subject: [pct-l] PCT Song
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID:
    <79767b571002090719t55d75c48qcc6358553926b939 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Here is another PCT and backpacking in general gem...

"Buggin'" by The Flaming Lips.

As John Candy once said, "I hate those, they do that."

-- 
Tom KI6ASP
The Incredible Bulk
pctaddict.blogspot.com

------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2010 07:22:47 -0800
From: Daniel Bailey <greenhiker at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Ursacks?
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Message-ID:
    <fb4005851002090722w74f5d1b9s54762a939e956c51 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Kathryn,

Ursacks are very good for the areas where bear canisters aren't used.  I
wouldn't hike without mine.

The main alternative is learning how to hang your food, which can be
tedious.  Some people become very skilled at hanging their food, but I found
it to be an exercise in frustration.

Be well,

Senator

> Wondering if Ursacks are a good item to have in places that don't
> require the bear canisters.  Otherwise what is a good way to deal with
> food, and please no "use as a pillow" comments:-)
>
> kathryn

------------------------------

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End of Pct-l Digest, Vol 26, Issue 45
*************************************