[pct-l] Of Cutting Ounces and Sacrificing Quality
Julian Plamann
julian at amity.be
Tue Mar 23 00:08:58 CDT 2010
The DriDucks pants get torn up so quickly it's ridiculous because of
abrasion from one leg against another. Personally, I'd just buy a trash bag
and use it as a rain skirt or buy the one ULA makes since full leg coverage
doesn't really seem necessary during summer storms.
However, since this is an email list specifically about the PCT... which is
a pretty clear-cut path through the wilderness requiring almost no
bush-whacking of any kind, I'd have to disagree about the DriDucks jacket.
It may be flimsier than coated nylon, but since nothing will be scraping
against it on a regular basis, the durability really doesn't matter. What
_is_ important to thru-hikers... or at least it was to me... is that it
seems to have a much better hydrostatic head and breathability rating than
almost any other fabric (sans eVent). I hiked in that jacket on occasion for
up to 8 hours in continual mild to heavy rainfall and remained drier
underneath than many of the people I was with at the time who were wearing
Goretex PacLite or similar jackets.
By the time I hit Manning Park, I had three small (1"x2") duct tape patches
on the jacket. Two of the patched holes were caused by jumping fire embers.
Field-patching with duct tape rendered the jacket good as new and I'm sure
glad it wasn't a $280 eVent jacket hit by those runaway embers.
Besides, if you're worried about durability, you can always just buy 10
backups and have them shipped to every mail drop and still end up ahead of
the game compared to dropping $200 on a less breathable alternative.
-Julian
On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 7:38 PM, <dnlcyclone at aol.com> wrote:
>
>
> I think it's safe to say that most of us on this forum are ultralight
> packers/enthusiasts to varied degrees, but cut out of the same fabric
> nonetheless. I understand the limitations for weight are heightened for
> solo-hikers as compared to those of us who travel with a companion or
> two...but I think the conversation of DriDucks illuminates a big red flag
> with those of us who probably cut your tags off your shirts: you're
> probably sacrificing a good degree of already-lightweight quality of
> slightly heavier gear in favor of cheap crap. I've already seen three posts
> of how their DriDucks tore "sitting" on them. Um...what happens when you
> brush up against some thorny alders, rocks...earth objects? It's going to
> tear. And if it doesn't...it will soon. Somebody talked about a "heavy"
> 11-oz rainjacket. Again, kudos to all of our ilk who hikes their own hike,
> to each their own...but I think the extreme end of the spectrum is really
> being abused. Obviously, people have made it
> through (or thru) alive with ultra-minimalist approach, but I don't think
> you have to be a statistician to figure out that there is a high probability
> that shitty gear has a STRONG influence and impact on the futility of many
> of the hikes that start off with such good intentions. Injury and illness
> being the two key culprits. Shitty rain gear = hypothermia. Shitty shoes
> or trying to make the hike on two pairs = plantar fascitis, ilio-tibial band
> syndrome, etc. Shitty sleeping pad = sleep deprivation/fatigue/immune
> system debilitation, etc. An 11 ounce rainjacket will NOT BREAK YOUR BACK.
> It will not. I encourage those of you to read up on Justin Lichter who is
> sponsored by montbell and Granite Gear, two of the best gear outfits in the
> business. His 2.5 pound pack (just the weight of backpack sans any
> gear/food) was light enough for him to hike 10,000 miles in less than a
> year.
>
> Again, cheers to those who like hiking with crap, but I find it ironic how
> those who preach about safety and preparation, are equally prepared to risk
> their own safety with inferior gear.
>
> Deadbeat Dave
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pct-l-request at backcountry.net
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Sent: Mon, Mar 22, 2010 8:15 pm
> Subject: Pct-l Digest, Vol 27, Issue 138
>
>
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> han "Re: Contents of Pct-l digest..."
>
> oday's Topics:
> 1. Re: Leaving with the herd /first thru hiker (David Ellzey)
> 2. Re: Leaving with the herd /first thru hiker (Denis Stanton)
> 3. Re: Printing Halfmile's Maps (Eugene Leafty)
> 4. Leaving with the herd /first thru hiker (Michael Herrera)
> 5. DriDucks rain gear too fragile? (Dan Africk)
> 6. Keeping feet dry in the rain. (Dan Africk)
> 7. A REAL iceaxe (Deems)
> 8. Re: DriDucks rain gear too fragile? (Scott Herriott)
> 9. Re: DriDucks rain gear too fragile? (Dan Africk)
> 10. Re: A REAL iceaxe (CHUCK CHELIN)
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Message: 1
> ate: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 18:31:52 -0500
> rom: David Ellzey <david at xpletive.com>
> ubject: Re: [pct-l] Leaving with the herd /first thru hiker
> o: "Pct-l at backcountry.net" <Pct-l at backcountry.net>
> essage-ID:
> <
> 3CF44C7E5B716541B6A0A9AF694AC66332FF8B7076 at AUSP01VMBX02.collaborationhost.net
> >
>
> ontent-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Mike is at mile 127 if I remember correctly...
> BigToe
> -----Original Message-----
> rom: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
> On
> ehalf Of Don Billings
> ent: Monday, March 22, 2010 4:23 PM
> o: Michael Herrera
> c: Pct-l at backcountry.net
> ubject: Re: [pct-l] Leaving with the herd /first thru hiker
> Mike,
> You mentioned your street, but what town are you in? (Can't get a fix on
> the
> iker just by your street name).
> Don
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> rom: Michael Herrera <mikeh at casaherrera.com>
> o: pct-l at backcountry.net
> ent: Mon, March 22, 2010 3:28:17 PM
> ubject: [pct-l] Leaving with the herd /first thru hiker
> the pct thru hike has started ,march 17th a thru hiker stopped by my house
> on
> hihuahua vally road i think his name was clinton ," i could be wrong" hiker
> rash all look alike after a while ,i think he said he started on the 10th
> good
> uck the hike is ON
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> -----------------------------
> Message: 2
> ate: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 12:38:10 +1300
> rom: Denis Stanton <denisstanton at mac.com>
> ubject: Re: [pct-l] Leaving with the herd /first thru hiker
> o: Don Billings <dbillings803 at yahoo.com>
> c: Pct-l at backcountry.net, Michael Herrera <mikeh at casaherrera.com>
> essage-ID: <C1164AF2-0E29-4E63-B8CD-A8E73D161268 at mac.com>
> ontent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Don
> Mike's address isn't really in a town. It's a road crossing a day and a
> half
> orth of Warner Springs
> I THINK the location you are looking for is 33.38125 N, 116.5907 W
> Mike, correct me if I have it wrong. I thought I had tagged the spot, but
> I
> an't find the tag.
> Denis
> On 23/03/2010, at 12:23 PM, Don Billings wrote:
> > Mike,
>
> You mentioned your street, but what town are you in? (Can't get a fix on
> the
> iker just by your street name).
>
> ------------------------------
> Message: 3
> ate: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 16:54:46 -0700
> rom: "Eugene Leafty" <atetuna at hotmail.com>
> ubject: Re: [pct-l] Printing Halfmile's Maps
> o: "'PCT MailingList'" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> essage-ID: <SNT102-DS595C9DC9F5A39D157D417B1270 at phx.gbl>
> ontent-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> If you want to pick up your maps in the San Diego area, you can have the
> aps printed at the TransAmerica Printing located at 550 Grand Avenue,
> pring Valley, CA 91977. The contact here is Tracy, 1-858-761-5404. I
> ound them on the Lazerquick website, although they're not affiliated
> nymore because their franchise agreement ended a couple months ago.
> Anyway, full color, full page, double-sided maps cost $88 plus tax. It
> osts about the same as the place in Oregon when shipping is factored in. I
> ent with the place in Spring Valley primarily because I wanted to see the
> aps before I paid for them, and also because it's a short walk from my
> ouse. Also, I got two sets of maps. The second set of maps where half
> ize, two pages per side, double sided. I wanted my maps like that because
> t'd be easier to handle, but it had the added bonus of costing about half
> s much.
> Eugene
> -----Original Message-----
> rom: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
> n Behalf Of Halfmile
> ent: Tuesday, February 09, 2010 8:23 AM
> o: PCT MailingList
> ubject: [pct-l] Printing Halfmile's Maps
> A few weeks back, color printing options for my free maps from
> ww.pctmap.net was discussed on the PCT-L. In a private email someone
> uggested I contact a company called Lazerquick (www.lazerquick.com),
> hich I did. Lazerquick printed a test of California Section A for me
> nd the print quality is excellent, much better than my printer at
> ome or any of the many laser printers at work.
> The prices seem reasonable considering the quality. Lazerquick's price
> s $75 (plus Shipping) for 2-sided color printing of all my maps the
> CT. This is less than lulu.com, which was also came up in the PCT-L
> iscussion. They offer discounts for quantities of 10 or 20 if enough
> ikers wanted to go in together do a group order.
> The Lazerquick I have been dealing with is in Portland Oregon. The
> mail is center48 at lazerquick.com; the phone number is 503-228-6306.
> sk them about "Halfmile's PCT Maps" and they should know what you are
> alking about. They have copies of my map files there, so all you
> ould need to do is email or call them to work out any printing you
> ant done.
> When I sent the files to Lazerquick I merged my PCT maps into three .pdf
> iles:
> Southern California - 152 pages (Campo to Tuolumne Meadows)
> orthern California - 129 pages (Tuolumne Meadows to near Ashland Oregon)
> regon/Washington - 177 page (near Ashland Oregon to Manning Park Canada)
> A few blank pages have been inserted into these files so that PCT
> ections always start on a new page and horizontal pages are rotated
> ppropriately depending of if they are odd or even.
> If you do decide to use Lazerquick's services it's between you and
> hem, I make no money from this referral. I am just passing this
> nformation on as an option and hope it helps someone, I know printing
> 50 pages of maps can be a chore, especially if you don't have a good
> rinter.
> -Halfmile
> ______________________________________________
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> ------------------------------
> Message: 4
> ate: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 16:58:23 -0700
> rom: "Michael Herrera" <mikeh at casaherrera.com>
> ubject: [pct-l] Leaving with the herd /first thru hiker
> o: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> essage-ID: <E5800DF28D3848FEBE44615EB67566CB at CASAHERRERA.LOCAL>
> ontent-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> sorry we are 127 mile from the mexican boarder its called warner springs
> but its
> bout 18 miles north of the warner springs resort next to bucksnort mnt and
> ombs peak
> ------------------------------
> Message: 5
> ate: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 19:59:56 -0400
> rom: Dan Africk <danstheman at gmail.com>
> ubject: [pct-l] DriDucks rain gear too fragile?
> o: Austin Williams <austinwilliams123 at gmail.com>
> c: pct-l at backcountry.net
> essage-ID:
> <1b15d4fc1003221659u591709f0rf65ae4d592f00476 at mail.gmail.com>
> ontent-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> I'm a little concerned about the durability also, since I'm sometimes a bit
> ough on my gear. I figure for the desert sections at th beginning, the
> ight weight is a good compromise for less durability. By the time I get to
> eally wet areas, I'll have a good idea of how tough it is, and I can switch
> o more traditional coated nylon rain gear if necessary. Or perhaps just
> eep a spare in the bounce box.
>
> n Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 5:08 PM, Austin Williams <
> ustinwilliams123 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I feel obligated to share my experience with DriDucks from two summers
> ago:
>
> I ordered a pair (top and bottoms) for the obvious reasons (cost and
> weight). The pants were so fragile that I literally tore a 1 inch hole in
> them *before I could get out of the house*! Not even kidding. I must
> have
> lightly run into a corner of one of our counter tops or something. Or
> maybe
> they ripped when I was putting my bare foot into the legs.... I don't
> know.
>
> Then my wife grabbed a part of the jacket between two of her fingers and
> scratched at it with her fingernails while saying, "they can't possibly be
> *that* fragile...." ..... and then there was a hole in the jacket...
>
> It may have been a fluke... but I never tried them again. I would feel
> more secure wearing a rainsuit made of race paper.
>
> Does anyone else have any experience with DriDucks? Did I just get a bad
> batch?
>
> -Austin
>
>
> -----------------------------
> Message: 6
> ate: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 20:18:15 -0400
> rom: Dan Africk <danstheman at gmail.com>
> ubject: [pct-l] Keeping feet dry in the rain.
> o: pct-l at backcountry.net
> essage-ID:
> <1b15d4fc1003221718l7de4ee08g85b3b3496e4ddf18 at mail.gmail.com>
> ontent-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> I hate having wet feet. I've always brought gaiters when I go backpacking,
> ainly to keep rain and mud out of my shoes. I was planning on bringing them
> or the PCT, but then I realized that my shoes have a large mesh patch in
> ront of the laces, where most gaiters will not cover them. It seems like
> nless I get some kind of gore-tex shoe, my feet will inevitably get soaked
> n a heavy rain. That's fine for a while, but when it rains for several days
> on-stop, that seems like it would be really bad and possibly lead to
> mmersion foot. So I guess I have 4 questions:
> 1- What if anything do you do to keep your feet dry in the rain?
> 2 - Do gaiters help much in the rain, and is there a certain type that
> works
> ell? (I've looked at dirty girls and SimBlissity levigaiters, but neither
> over the front of the shoe or claim to be waterproof. The Outdoor Research
> alamander gaiter seems like it might cover the front of a shoe, although
> ts heavy and expensive.)
> 3 - Is it worth switching to Gore-tex for the really wet areas, like
> ashington? I know your feet still get wet from sweat, but unlike rain that
> an be addressed by changing your socks.
> 4 - What about plastic bags or tyvek booties used as cheap waterproof
> ocks(worn over socks and inside of shoes)? I tried this once with a pair of
> oaked boots, and it worked pretty well, but I haven't tried that for
> xtended trips.
>
> -----------------------------
> Message: 7
> ate: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 17:18:44 -0700
> rom: "Deems" <losthiker at sisqtel.net>
> ubject: [pct-l] A REAL iceaxe
> o: "pct" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> essage-ID: <DB051244848C46DB8D9003FBF15A8D47 at S0029439031>
> ontent-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
> I'm sure I have an Aschenbrenner in my vintage ice axe collection, and I
> was
> orn in 1955! If you're willing to carry the weight, your old friend will
> ontinue to serve you well. It would not be my first choice from my
> ollection to carry in the Sierra today or climb Mt Rainier, it would be my
> nd or 3rd choice. If I had known it for 55yrs, it would be my only
> hoice!! Times have changed, as has the equipment and technology, but the
> eauty and spirit of a vintage wooden handled ice axe that has been carried
> n the same hands for 55 years is a trusted friend and a personal treasure.
> ttp://www.pbase.com/losthiker/image/91949361 a few
> ttp://www.pbase.com/losthiker/image/91949365
> I shared a few of my best vintage and modern ice axes with the group at the
> LDHAwest gathering in fall 2009.
> ~^^~~^^~~
> recall that there was recent posts on the subject of Iceaxes. I still
> ave the iceaxe that I originally bought in 1955. It is an Aschenbrenner
> nd was made in Austria. It weighs 2 1/2 pounds and its length comes up to
> bout 6'' below my elbow when I am standing. It's axe head was heavy enough
> o effectively cut steps when traversing an icy slope. And it was long
> nough to add stability downslope. I only recall having to use it for
> elf-arrest once. (Of course I never had the benefit of having taken Ned's
> ourse - everyone who would go through the Sierra when there is snow and ice
> hould take that course.) I did a lot of climbing and backpacking,
> ncluding the JMT, in the Sierra during the 50's and 60's. I often carried
> y iceaxe - used it not only on snow and ice but also as a walking stick for
> dded stability pretty much as today's hikers use their hiking poles. I
> an't remember when I first saw a hiker with hiking poles -
> perhaps it was Reinhold or maybe Steeleye. To me, some of today's iceaxes
> hat I see tied behind some hikers packs look rather short and probably too
> ight to be effective for cutting steps in ice or icy snow. Just a few
> houghts - - - .
> endoRider
>
>
> -----------------------------
> Message: 8
> ate: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 17:49:30 -0700 (PDT)
> rom: Scott Herriott <yetifan at yahoo.com>
> ubject: Re: [pct-l] DriDucks rain gear too fragile?
> o: Austin Williams <austinwilliams123 at gmail.com>, Dan Africk
> <danstheman at gmail.com>
> c: pct-l at backcountry.net
> essage-ID: <334258.41528.qm at web113211.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> ontent-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> Dan wrote:
> <I'm a little concerned about the durability also, since I'm sometimes a
> bit
> ough on my gear. I figure for the desert sections at th beginning, the
> ight weight?is a good compromise for less durability.>
>
> love my Dri-Ducks because they're so light. ?But whatever you do, don't
> sit
> own on a rock with them...they will rip fairly easily. I learned that the
> hard
> ay.
>
> quatch
> ww.walkpct.com
> 0% of DVD proceeds to the PCTA until April 16th
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Message: 9
> ate: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 20:59:53 -0400
> rom: Dan Africk <danstheman at gmail.com>
> ubject: Re: [pct-l] DriDucks rain gear too fragile?
> o: Scott Herriott <yetifan at yahoo.com>
> c: pct-l at backcountry.net
> essage-ID:
> <1b15d4fc1003221759m4f26437eua93d8c9f5440c954 at mail.gmail.com>
> ontent-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Thanks for the tip, I've read that elsewhere too. For that reason I'm only
> sing the dryducks jacket, and keeping my heavy(11oz), full-zip, Red Ledge
> ain pants. These have taken a lot of abuse and it's great to be able to put
> hem on and off without having to sit down or take off my shoes. I figure
> he driducks jacket will stand a better chance if I make an effort to be
> areful with it.
> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 8:49 PM, Scott Herriott <yetifan at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Dan wrote:
>
>
> <I'm a little concerned about the durability also, since I'm sometimes a
> bit
> rough on my gear. I figure for the desert sections at th beginning, the
> light weight is a good compromise for less durability.>
>
>
>
> I love my Dri-Ducks because they're so light. But whatever you do, don't
> sit down on a rock with them...they will rip fairly easily. I learned that
> the hard way.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----------------------------
> Message: 10
> ate: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 18:15:14 -0700
> rom: CHUCK CHELIN <steeleye at wildblue.net>
> ubject: Re: [pct-l] A REAL iceaxe
> o: Edward Anderson <mendoridered at yahoo.com>
> c: pct-l at backcountry.net
> essage-ID:
> <db9154d1003221815q32e95294k921aca96c49c6b65 at mail.gmail.com>
> ontent-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
> Good evening, all,
>
> In many years snowpack hiking I?ve arrested slides four times ? none of
> them
> ere highly dangerous, none of them were performed with any of the ice axes
> hat I?ve owned and practiced with, and all of them could have been easily
> voided. Is this recommended practice? Not a chance: Do as I say, not as
> do.
>
> On a Washington PCT section hike in 2000 I wanted to descend a snow field
> to
> xplore an attractive bowl. I didn?t have poles or an ice axe with me, but
> he sun had been on the snowpack and the traction was good for my sneakers.
> nfortunately, about 2/3 the way down I passed into the shade of a ridge
> nto snowpack that had not yet been touched by the sun. It was far too
> lick to continue further unassisted. As I rested for a moment near a small
> alus outcropping I had to decide to: 1) go back up the steep slope, which
> eemed a lot of work for someone as lazy as I; 2) continue around the bowl
> n-grade just above the shade line, which was quite a long route; or, 3)
> ind some way to continue down.
>
> >From the outcropping I managed to loosen a piece of talus about a foot
> long,
> arrow, relatively thin, and shaped like an arrowhead. By holding one hand
> n the center and the other hand over the wide top end I could slide on my
> ide and drag the point in the crust. It was much like an ice axe without a
> haft. I practiced on a short, safe pitch and when I found the process
> atisfactory I gently slid all the remaining distance to the rocks below.
>
> In ?07 on the north side of Mather Pass I wanted to cross a big patch of
> ice
> nd snowpack covering a flat, sloping rock face. I could have worked around
> t, but across was convenient. I had no ice axe, but three times in about
> s many minutes my feet went out from under me and I slid until I could do a
> wo-handed grab near the tip of one pole to arrest the slide. I don?t use
> rist straps so I could quickly sift my grip. I don?t know how I managed to
> eep control of the other pole.
> ttp://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=188368
>
> Steel-Eye
> Hiking the Pct since before it was the PCT ? 1965
> http://www.trailjournals.com/steel-eye
> ttp://www.trailjournals.com/SteelEye09
> On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 1:52 PM, Edward Anderson <mendoridered at yahoo.com
> >wrote:
> > I recall that there was recent posts on the subject of Iceaxes. I still
> have the iceaxe that I originally bought in 1955. It is an Aschenbrenner
> and was made in Austria. It weighs 2 1/2 pounds and its length comes up
> to about 6'' below my elbow when I am standing. It's axe head was heavy
> enough to effectively cut steps when traversing an icy slope. And it was
> long enough to add stability downslope. I only recall having to use it for
> self-arrest once. (Of course I never had the benefit of having taken
> Ned's
> course - everyone who would go through the Sierra when there is snow and
> ice
> should take that course.) I did a lot of climbing and backpacking,
> including the JMT, in the Sierra during the 50's and 60's. I often
> carried
> my iceaxe - used it not only on snow and ice but also as a walking stick
> for
> added stability pretty much as today's hikers use thier hiking poles. I
> can't remember when I first saw a hiker with hiking poles -
> perhaps it was Reinhold or maybe Steeleye. To me, some of today's iceaxes
> that I see tied behind some hikers packs look rather short and probably
> too light to be effective for cutting steps in ice or icy snow. Just a few
> thoughts - - - .
> MendoRider
>
>
>
>
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> nd of Pct-l Digest, Vol 27, Issue 138
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