[pct-l] water caches

Thu Mar 25 18:45:24 CDT 2010

Jeff,

Honestly, no harm no foul.  You're the one writing a personal email calling me a dick.  Get a grip.  I'm not a bad guy, as I'm sure you're not...but honestly, chill out.  YOU are the one bent out of shape about the water caches.  You and a very small handful of others.  This is a trail.  We're not talking about caches of Snickers bars and big screen TVs...we're talking about water.  I realize that you thru-hiked the PCT.  Congratulations.  Seriously.  I have respect for you.  What I don't have respect for, is this purist BS about "eyesore" water caches.  If you wanted pristine, you could always go off trail and bushwhack your way to the border.  If a water cache is an eyesore, then we should probably tear up all the highways that bisect the trail on our way to the border.  Also, better do away with all the bear boxes in Yosemite.  Can't have them ruining our view.  This is a 2700 mile trail, and you guys are complaining about water caches in a very small area.  These were implemented by very kind, very environmentalist people who are offering a very human favor of hydrating people along their trek.  "Dick?"  Honestly.  You say you're not pissed, but...look at your response!  Only a narcissist would maintain "that my position on caches has always been very clear."  Do you really think people have put Elevator's Posts on the Forum in their mental databank?  Please.  You've given good advice before.  In fact, I read your entire journal from 2006.  It was extremely helpful, but that does not mean that your opinion is not going to greet opposition once in a great while.  We're talking about water.  Water.  Again, this is an established trail.  People of our ilk usually revere trail angels.  Guys like Skurka and Lichter, who hike 10,000 miles a year...they love those guys.  For you to insinuate that those who drink from a water cache are "coddled" individuals is insulting.  People still carry water.  If they choose to complement their supply with the cache supply, so be it.  Better not mail your food to yourself either.  Elevator, when's the last time you hunted or foraged for your own trail diet?  I'm not a contrarian, your response though is rife with vitriol and inconsistency.  Don't pitch the fastball if you don't want people to swing at it.   I think the term, "Hike your hike" applies here.  Hike your hike, and let others enjoy a Samaritan act of generosity committed by those who enjoy helping others enjoy their neck of the woods. 

Cheers,

Deadbeat Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: jeff.singewald at comcast.net
To: dnlcyclone at aol.com
Sent: Thu, Mar 25, 2010 2:46 pm
Subject: Re: [pct-l] water caches

Hey Dick (I mean Dave),

In your post you suggested that "some people on this list".... Given that you did not directly refer to Scott, I sensed you were referencing this to anyone that didn't support your position on water caches.  Not sure how long you have been contributing to the list, but I have been posting for a number of years and my position on water caches has always been very clear.

Why is it that you suggest I should need to go off trail to avoid the eyesores of the water caches?  If someone doesn't want to man-up to carry the water and needs to rely on these caches, doesn't it make sense that they should be willing to walk off trail a bit (I'm talking a couple hundred yards for goodness sakes) to reach them as opposed to asking the folks that would prefer not to use them to go off trail?

You suggest I am pissed.  I'm not at all.  I just find it interesting that the folks that are unwilling to carry water and want to be coddled along the way feel that they should have the water placed right at their feet.

Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: dnlcyclone at aol.com
To: "jeff singewald" <jeff.singewald at comcast.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 12:34:22 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [pct-l] water caches

The thread was addressed to postholer.  Also, beauty is in the eyesore of the beholder.  Obviously, I was right about the corn cob, or else you wouldn't be so pissed.  If you don't like the water cache (which is supported by many excellent stewards of the land), feel free to walk the hundred yards off trail to avoid it.   

Cheers,

Deadbeat Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: jeff.singewald at comcast.net
To: dnlcyclone at aol.com
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
Sent: Thu, Mar 25, 2010 12:28 pm
Subject: Re: [pct-l] water caches

Deadbeat,

I guess I am one of the those that have a corncob up my butt as you have suggested since I posted what I felt were non-threatening comments regarding water caches and specifically about placement of water caches.  Do the water caches hurt me?  No they do not.  But, they are an eye sore to me and that is why I suggest that they be moved off trail.  If you want to use them go ahead and use them, but why not walk a couple of hundred yards off-trail to do it?

So, let me know if you want that corn cob buttered when I leave it at the cache for you.

Elevator

----- Original Message -----
From: dnlcyclone at aol.com
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 10:21:30 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: [pct-l] water caches

Here, here!  Postholer.  Seriously.  If you don't want the water, don't drink it.  It's amazing to me how some people on this forum have a corn cob up their butt about things that DO NOT HURT THEM OR OTHERS.  Wow.  

Deadbeat Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-request at backcountry.net
To: pct-l at backcountry.net
Sent: Thu, Mar 25, 2010 12:00 pm
Subject: Pct-l Digest, Vol 27, Issue 157

Send Pct-l mailing list submissions to
    pct-l at backcountry.net

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
    http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
    pct-l-request at backcountry.net

You can reach the person managing the list at
    pct-l-owner at backcountry.net

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Pct-l digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1.  Cache history (Postholer)
   2. Re: Help needed to stock 3rd Gate Cache (Ron Moak)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 09:07:30 -0800
From: "Postholer" <public at postholer.com>
Subject: [pct-l]  Cache history
To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <13fa01cacc3d$a7d13ee0$00317644 at Snoopy>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
    reply-type=original

> I have a "whatever" attitude towards caches.

Do you have a "whatever" attitude towards mt bikes and dirt bikes on the PCT 
as well?

In both cases it's the individual making the choice for all of us. Of 
course, this small elite group knows what is best for us all.

While the history of water caches is certainly interesting, it does not 
justify the existence. Dispersing a lengthy history of the why's and how's 
may seem to validate caches, it does not. In the end it's just a petty 
justification for illegal behavior.

-postholer
------------------------------------
Trail Journals, Google Trail Maps, Forums: http://postholer.com
Pacific Crest Trail Photo Atlas: http://postholer.com/photoAtlas.php

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 09:50:56 -0700
From: "Ron Moak" <ronmoak at sixmoondesigns.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Help needed to stock 3rd Gate Cache
To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Message-ID: <008401cacc3b$586e7090$094b51b0$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="us-ascii"

Postholer writes >>Water caches on public lands are illegal.<<

Exactly what law or regulation do they violate? Are you in law enforcement
or a member of the legal profession? If not, what is the source of your
definitive statement? If I remember correctly there is a least one if not
more caches that were maintained by the BLM. 

Postholer writes >>In both cases it's the individual making the choice for
all of us. Of course, this small elite group knows what is best for us
all.<<

Granted I've not done a definitive survey of the percentage of people who
use water caches vs. those who don't. But it seems to me that most of the
hikers utilize water caches on occasion. It appears that the small group of
people who maintain the caches are doing a valuable service for the majority
of hikers. 

To this observer it seems that you stand at the head of that small elite
group that constantly thinks he knows best and is always telling people how
they should behave. 

If you don't like caches walk on by. I assure you, no one cares.

--------------------------------------------------
Fallingwater

------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Pct-l mailing list
Pct-l at backcountry.net
To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/

End of Pct-l Digest, Vol 27, Issue 157
**************************************

_______________________________________________
Pct-l mailing list
Pct-l at backcountry.net
To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/

Cheers,

Deadbeat Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: jeff.singewald at comcast.net
To: dnlcyclone at aol.com
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
Sent: Thu, Mar 25, 2010 12:28 pm
Subject: Re: [pct-l] water caches

Deadbeat,