[pct-l] Bear Smarts vs Hiker smarts

[Reinhold Metzger]

Yes Gary, L-Rod,....I agree.
This bear canister thread has reinforced my long standing suspicion 
that  "California Bears"  seem to be smarter and have a better grasp of 
bear canisters than some of our hiker friends.
Of course, this does not really surprise me since I read somewhere that 
"now-a-days" some of our "California Bears" are Harvard graduates with 
degrees in structural engineering which appears to give them a better 
understanding, than some of our hiker friends, of the structural 
capabilities and workings of bear canisters and other food storage devices.

I am the proud owner of the following three bear canisters:
1.  BV-500  Bear Vault (2 knobs)....2.5 lb
2.  12" Garcia...................................3 lb
3.  18" Garcia...................................4.25 lb

My Garcia's are the old originals, when they first came out many years 
ago,....they are different from the current models
by having the same diameter throughout, which caused them to roll down 
hill in a straight line...sometimes straight into a river or a lake.
They subsequently made them wider in the middle to prevent the straight 
roll.
I have never heard of a Garcia failing if properly used.
There have been some Bear Vaul failures which gave cause to several 
design changes.
Hopefully the current BV-500 design is  "California Bear" proof.
The Ursack, although probably a reliable food storage canister, is not 
approved in many areas.
The Garcia and Bear Vault surface is slippery, without grab points, 
which makes it very difficult for a bear to pick up,  bite or claw.
The Ursack, on the other hand, can be picked up and chewed on by a 
bear....hence the string to tie it to a tree.
I have had extensive conversations with some Rangers about the Ursack.
They told me that the reason for the aluminum sleeve was to prevent the 
bears from crushing the food, because  some hikers would just dump their 
crushed food which then was there for the animals to eat.
Another reason they gave for the Ursack disapproval was that it has to 
be tied to a tree to prevent a bear from walking off with the Ursack  
and the bear yanking and pulling to rip the Ursack from the tree would 
cause the string to damage the tree.
That was news to me.....If you are not allowed to tie it to a tree, what 
is going to prevent the bear from just walking of with the whole bag if 
he can't rip it open?

JMT Reinhold
-----------------------------------
 
L-Rod wrote:

Gary: >/ "The bears in the parks are smart, resourceful and determined."

/You are so right about that. In 2006 I had the good fortune to talk 
with the backcountry ranger that was stationed at Rae Lakes in 2005 -- 
the place and year the bears figured out how to open the old style Bear 
Vaults by popping them open. The bears were observed on multiple 
occasions walking past the newer version, which looked very similar but 
could not be opened, in favor of the older faulty version. The bears 
knew exactly what they were doing and didn't waste any time trying to 
open cans they couldn't. I've also heard of bears raiding car camper 
campsites with poorly stored food and beverages, and the bears only went 
after the good beer, not the cheap brand. Gotta love 'em. I've found my 
bear can to be a useful, multiple purpose item, used not only for food 
storage but for hauling water, washing clothes away from water sources, 
and it's an awesome stool. More than any other item in my pack, it's 
allowed me to sleep more soundly and have one less worry.
L-Rod
----------------------------
Matt Thyer wrote:/
On another note, I'm looking at pile of email from people saying that 
/Ursack >/ is no longer compliant with regulations regarding bear 
protection yet /cannot >/ find (even on the NPS site) any reference to 
those regulations. Rules in />/ this case are appearing to me very 
arbitrary and the standard for tested />/ compliance is illusory as best 
as I can tell. / IMHO, the rules are not arbitrary.
----------------------------
Gary wrote:
The bears in the parks are smart, resourceful and determined. The only 
thing that will protect your food, the bear and you is a bear canister, 
bear locker or sheer dumb luck. The Ursack doesn't do its intended job 
in places like national parks. Maybe the bear won't get your food in a 
Ursack, but you'll be stuck with a wad of bear slobbered muck. Outside 
of the parks it is an unnecessary expense as simple and cheap nylon 
stuff sacks will do the same job of containing your food. That's my 
experience, anyway. YMMV.
Gary