[pct-l] On the Dangers of the UL Mentality

Fri May 7 23:18:21 CDT 2010

I think that logic works at sometime.

Very simple logic

When the clothes + sleeping bag = 2 Kg

Which is warmer?
 clothes 1.5 Kg + sleeping bag 0.5 Kg  or
 clothes 1.0 Kg + sleeping bag 1.0 Kg

I chose the latter case, because down is warmer than clothes.

2010/5/8 Yoshihiro Murakami <completewalker at gmail.com>:
> Dear giniajim
>
> When I am hiking, I wear shorts (+ brief ) , T shirts, and socks. I
> wear long gaiters in chilly  morning or evening. I wear long sleeve
> undershirts and  rain jacket in storm or snow condition.  That is all.
>  My clothes system is simple.
>
> When I am sleeping, I wear long undershirt and long underpants only, I
> wear sometimes light down vest in a very cold night ( -10 degree in
> Centigrade ).
>
> Other my backpacking clothes are shorts, long gaiter (shorts and long
> gaiter makes hypothetical long pants), socks(2 or 3), T shirts(2),
> brief(2), and rain suits (my first and last barrier ) . I do not wear
> these extra clothes when sleeping. So, I am carry too much as CHUCK
> said.  I am not a UL backpacker. And I can carry them. That is the
> reason.
>
> My recent sleeping system is Exped Downmat 7 Pump + Marmot Helium EQ
> This combination is very warm. -20 degree in centigrade (-4 F) is OK.
>
> My favorite tent is Hileberg Akto. very versatile and strong tent. I
> used this tent for 5 years. At last, I designed my original tent, and
> ordered  to the tent maker. So, I will obtain lighter and stronger
> tent in this summer.
>
>
>
>
>
> 2010/5/7 giniajim <jplynch at crosslink.net>:
>> This is a good post, thanks for the contribution.  I would make a comment
>> about the clothes-sleeping bag choices.  The selection of more clothes is
>> probably dictated by the need to be warm while in camp between hiking (when
>> you're generating heat) and sleeping (when you're in your sleeping bag).  So
>> assuming you can wear your camp clothes at night in your sleeping bag, you
>> can get away with a lighter bag.  Does that logic work?
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Yoshihiro Murakami
>> To: Steve McAllister
>> Cc: Pacific Crest Trail List
>> Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 3:59 AM
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] On the Dangers of the UL Mentality
>> Experience doesn't always mean good judgment nor outdoor skills.
>>
>> I strongly agree. We have limited resource and experience, but the
>> hikers and climbers ( at least in Japan) tend to rely only on  their
>> experience. Some times, the tragedy occurs.
>>
>> I will try to write my feeling of  UL briefly, because I have limited
>> ability of writing and time ( I am at slavery job).
>>
>> I had read  Ryan Jordan (ed.) Lightweight Backpacking and Camping
>> (Backpacking Light) , and I think I could understand their opinion,
>> but I  could not agree with several points. I felt their movement
>> contained a tendency to return to the primitivism and radicalism,
>> sometimes lacked rationality or scientific findings.
>>
>> My first impression of Ryan (photo) was he was wearing too many
>> clothes. In UL, it was frequently asserted that the weight of tent,
>> sleeping bag and backpack should be reduced. But the reduction of
>> weight induces sometimes difficult problems.
>>
>> --Clothes and sleeping bag--
>>
>> Why he wears many clothes? I think he reduced the weight of sleeping
>> bag and pad. When  assumed total weight of clothes and sleeping bag to
>> be constant,  the warmest combination will be a thin clothe and a
>> thick sleeping bag. When we walking, heat is generated, we need not
>> thick clothes. I think it is better to minimize the clothes and
>> maximize the sleeping bag.
>>
>> --Footwear --
>>
>> On the footwear,  boots vs shoes dispute appeared in this ML, there
>> are also many opinions. There are many variables concerning footwear,
>> and  I had consulted the scientific research. I found several papers.
>>
>> ---Energy consumption
>>
>> Contrary to our expectation,   the energy consumption of shoes and
>> boots is  equal, when walking speed is 5 km/h.  This was a limited
>> experiments by G.R Tack et al. XXI ISB Congress, Poster Sessions,
>> Wednesday 4 July 2007.
>>
>> When we are walking by shoes,  prominent jerks are observed and
>> consume more energy. Boots is heavy, but they need lesser energy to
>> stabilize our body. Then, on the energy consumption, boots and shoes
>> may be equal.
>>
>> Matthew, et al. ( Gait and posture, 28, 427-433. 2008) also executed
>> the walking experiments and proved that the ankle fixation does not
>> increase the energy consumption.
>>
>> ---Injury
>>
>> I had already posted on this issue. Stewart et al. (Wilderness and
>> Environmental Medicine 20, 250-256, 2009 ) investigated long -distance
>> hikers, and found that the injury associated  only  with pack weight
>> not with the footwear type. Boots are disliked sometime, but they were
>> innocent.
>>
>> So, the boots vs shoes problem cannot be solved easily. The boots will
>> be appropriate for a man like me, heavy body weight and traditional
>> backpacking style, but not appropriate for a light weight man.
>>
>> I will omit the backpack, and tent vs tarp problems. But many people
>> know the backpack without waist belt is not appropriate for hiking,
>> and will select the backpacks with waist belt (which has extra weight
>> ! ). Concerning tent vs tarp problem,   the very light tents exists.
>> For example, Terra Nova Laser Photon Elite weighs only 1 lb 6 oz (624
>> g).
>>
>> The important thing is to reduced the total pack weight within the
>> secure range, this range is  different for individuals.
>>
>> I will walk JMT with very bulky and heavy backpack in this summer. I
>> must carry English dictionary (If my English ability is superior,
>> this  can be omitted, but I cannot.) and a heavy DSR (my hobby! ) and
>> the necessities as a foreigner. But I will reduced my total pack
>> weight within my secure range.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sincerely
>> --------------- --------------------------------------
>> Hiro    ( Yoshihiro Murakami )
>> HP:http://psycho01.edu.u-toyama.ac.jp
>> http://picasaweb.google.co.jp/CompleteWalker/
>> Backpacking for 30 years in Japan
>> 2009 JMT, the first America.
>> ------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
>
> --
> Sincerely
> --------------- --------------------------------------
> Hiro    ( Yoshihiro Murakami )
> HP:http://psycho01.edu.u-toyama.ac.jp
> http://picasaweb.google.co.jp/CompleteWalker/
> Backpacking for 30 years in Japan
> 2009 JMT, the first America.
> ------------------------------------------------------
>

-- 
Sincerely
--------------- --------------------------------------
Hiro    ( Yoshihiro Murakami )
HP:http://psycho01.edu.u-toyama.ac.jp
http://picasaweb.google.co.jp/CompleteWalker/
Backpacking for 30 years in Japan
2009 JMT, the first America.
------------------------------------------------------