[pct-l] On the Dangers of the UL Mentality

Sat May 8 08:08:21 CDT 2010

It's really difficult to hike while wearing your down sleeping bag.  Why not go the extra pound and be safe from extreme cold and wind if you find yourself in a situation when you must hike out ? ? ?  This might be a more likely situation if you go ULTRA LIGHT.  I say - always be prepared for whatever happens - then you have more options. 
MendoRider 

--- On Sat, 5/8/10, Yoshihiro Murakami <completewalker at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Yoshihiro Murakami <completewalker at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] On the Dangers of the UL Mentality
To: "giniajim" <jplynch at crosslink.net>
Cc: "Pacific Crest Trail List" <pct-l at backcountry.net>, "Steve McAllister" <brooklynkayak at gmail.com>
Date: Saturday, May 8, 2010, 4:18 AM

I think that logic works at sometime.

Very simple logic

When the clothes + sleeping bag = 2 Kg

Which is warmer?
clothes 1.5 Kg + sleeping bag 0.5 Kg  or
clothes 1.0 Kg + sleeping bag 1.0 Kg

I chose the latter case, because down is warmer than clothes.

2010/5/8 Yoshihiro Murakami <completewalker at gmail.com>:
> Dear giniajim
>
> When I am hiking, I wear shorts (+ brief ) , T shirts, and socks. I
> wear long gaiters in chilly  morning or evening. I wear long sleeve
> undershirts and  rain jacket in storm or snow condition.  That is all.
>  My clothes system is simple.
>
> When I am sleeping, I wear long undershirt and long underpants only, I
> wear sometimes light down vest in a very cold night ( -10 degree in
> Centigrade ).
>
> Other my backpacking clothes are shorts, long gaiter (shorts and long
> gaiter makes hypothetical long pants), socks(2 or 3), T shirts(2),
> brief(2), and rain suits (my first and last barrier ) . I do not wear
> these extra clothes when sleeping. So, I am carry too much as CHUCK
> said.  I am not a UL backpacker. And I can carry them. That is the
> reason.
>
> My recent sleeping system is Exped Downmat 7 Pump + Marmot Helium EQ
> This combination is very warm. -20 degree in centigrade (-4 F) is OK.
>
> My favorite tent is Hileberg Akto. very versatile and strong tent. I
> used this tent for 5 years. At last, I designed my original tent, and
> ordered  to the tent maker. So, I will obtain lighter and stronger
> tent in this summer.
>
>
>
>
>
> 2010/5/7 giniajim <jplynch at crosslink.net>:
>> This is a good post, thanks for the contribution.  I would make a comment
>> about the clothes-sleeping bag choices.  The selection of more clothes is
>> probably dictated by the need to be warm while in camp between hiking (when
>> you're generating heat) and sleeping (when you're in your sleeping bag).  So
>> assuming you can wear your camp clothes at night in your sleeping bag, you
>> can get away with a lighter bag.  Does that logic work?
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Yoshihiro Murakami
>> To: Steve McAllister
>> Cc: Pacific Crest Trail List
>> Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 3:59 AM
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] On the Dangers of the UL Mentality
>> Experience doesn't always mean good judgment nor outdoor skills.
>>
>> I strongly agree. We have limited resource and experience, but the
>> hikers and climbers ( at least in Japan) tend to rely only on  their
>> experience. Some times, the tragedy occurs.
>>
>> I will try to write my feeling of  UL briefly, because I have limited
>> ability of writing and time ( I am at slavery job).
>>
>> I had read  Ryan Jordan (ed.) Lightweight Backpacking and Camping
>> (Backpacking Light) , and I think I could understand their opinion,
>> but I  could not agree with several points. I felt their movement
>> contained a tendency to return to the primitivism and radicalism,
>> sometimes lacked rationality or scientific findings.
>>
>> My first impression of Ryan (photo) was he was wearing too many
>> clothes. In UL, it was frequently asserted that the weight of tent,
>> sleeping bag and backpack should be reduced. But the reduction of
>> weight induces sometimes difficult problems.
>>
>> --Clothes and sleeping bag--
>>
>> Why he wears many clothes? I think he reduced the weight of sleeping
>> bag and pad. When  assumed total weight of clothes and sleeping bag to
>> be constant,  the warmest combination will be a thin clothe and a
>> thick sleeping bag. When we walking, heat is generated, we need not
>> thick clothes. I think it is better to minimize the clothes and
>> maximize the sleeping bag.
>>
>> --Footwear --
>>
>> On the footwear,  boots vs shoes dispute appeared in this ML, there
>> are also many opinions. There are many variables concerning footwear,
>> and  I had consulted the scientific research. I found several papers.
>>
>> ---Energy consumption
>>
>> Contrary to our expectation,   the energy consumption of shoes and
>> boots is  equal, when walking speed is 5 km/h.  This was a limited
>> experiments by G.R Tack et al. XXI ISB Congress, Poster Sessions,
>> Wednesday 4 July 2007.
>>
>> When we are walking by shoes,  prominent jerks are observed and
>> consume more energy. Boots is heavy, but they need lesser energy to
>> stabilize our body. Then, on the energy consumption, boots and shoes
>> may be equal.
>>
>> Matthew, et al. ( Gait and posture, 28, 427-433. 2008) also executed
>> the walking experiments and proved that the ankle fixation does not
>> increase the energy consumption.
>>
>> ---Injury
>>
>> I had already posted on this issue. Stewart et al. (Wilderness and
>> Environmental Medicine 20, 250-256, 2009 ) investigated long -distance
>> hikers, and found that the injury associated  only  with pack weight
>> not with the footwear type. Boots are disliked sometime, but they were
>> innocent.
>>
>> So, the boots vs shoes problem cannot be solved easily. The boots will
>> be appropriate for a man like me, heavy body weight and traditional
>> backpacking style, but not appropriate for a light weight man.
>>
>> I will omit the backpack, and tent vs tarp problems. But many people
>> know the backpack without waist belt is not appropriate for hiking,
>> and will select the backpacks with waist belt (which has extra weight
>> ! ). Concerning tent vs tarp problem,   the very light tents exists.
>> For example, Terra Nova Laser Photon Elite weighs only 1 lb 6 oz (624
>> g).
>>
>> The important thing is to reduced the total pack weight within the
>> secure range, this range is  different for individuals.
>>
>> I will walk JMT with very bulky and heavy backpack in this summer. I
>> must carry English dictionary (If my English ability is superior,
>> this  can be omitted, but I cannot.) and a heavy DSR (my hobby! ) and
>> the necessities as a foreigner. But I will reduced my total pack
>> weight within my secure range.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sincerely
>> --------------- --------------------------------------
>> Hiro    ( Yoshihiro Murakami )
>> HP:http://psycho01.edu.u-toyama.ac.jp
>> http://picasaweb.google.co.jp/CompleteWalker/
>> Backpacking for 30 years in Japan
>> 2009 JMT, the first America.
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-l mailing list
>> Pct-l at backcountry.net
>> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>
>
>
> --
> Sincerely
> --------------- --------------------------------------
> Hiro    ( Yoshihiro Murakami )
> HP:http://psycho01.edu.u-toyama.ac.jp
> http://picasaweb.google.co.jp/CompleteWalker/
> Backpacking for 30 years in Japan
> 2009 JMT, the first America.
> ------------------------------------------------------
>

-- 
Sincerely
--------------- --------------------------------------
Hiro    ( Yoshihiro Murakami )
HP:http://psycho01.edu.u-toyama.ac.jp
http://picasaweb.google.co.jp/CompleteWalker/
Backpacking for 30 years in Japan
2009 JMT, the first America.
------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Pct-l mailing list
Pct-l at backcountry.net
To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l

List Archives:
http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/