[pct-l] On the Dangers of the UL Mentality

Sat May 8 10:40:01 CDT 2010

Good morning, all,

I live in the Pacific NW where every major mountain along the PCT from Mt.
Lassen to Monument-78 is a stratovolcano which potentially can erupt at any
time.  As I cross an outflow river directly beneath one of the many glaciers
I look up at the mountain and wonder what the
“always-be-prepared-for-anything” crowd would do if there was an eruption
and they faced 900,000 million tonnes of pyroclastic flow coming down around
their ears.  How about that SilNylon tent -- pretty good protection?

Steel-Eye

Hiking the Pct since before it was the PCT – 1965

http://www.trailjournals.com/steel-eye

http://www.trailjournals.com/SteelEye09

On Sat, May 8, 2010 at 6:08 AM, Edward Anderson <mendoridered at yahoo.com>wrote:

> It's really difficult to hike while wearing your down sleeping bag.  Why
> not go the extra pound and be safe from extreme cold and wind if you find
> yourself in a situation when you must hike out ? ? ?  This might be a more
> likely situation if you go ULTRA LIGHT.  I say - always be prepared for
> whatever happens - then you have more options.
> MendoRider
>
> --- On Sat, 5/8/10, Yoshihiro Murakami <completewalker at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Yoshihiro Murakami <completewalker at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] On the Dangers of the UL Mentality
> To: "giniajim" <jplynch at crosslink.net>
> Cc: "Pacific Crest Trail List" <pct-l at backcountry.net>, "Steve McAllister"
> <brooklynkayak at gmail.com>
> Date: Saturday, May 8, 2010, 4:18 AM
>
>
> I think that logic works at sometime.
>
> Very simple logic
>
> When the clothes + sleeping bag = 2 Kg
>
> Which is warmer?
> clothes 1.5 Kg + sleeping bag 0.5 Kg  or
> clothes 1.0 Kg + sleeping bag 1.0 Kg
>
> I chose the latter case, because down is warmer than clothes.
>
>
>
>
>
> 2010/5/8 Yoshihiro Murakami <completewalker at gmail.com>:
> > Dear giniajim
> >
> > When I am hiking, I wear shorts (+ brief ) , T shirts, and socks. I
> > wear long gaiters in chilly  morning or evening. I wear long sleeve
> > undershirts and  rain jacket in storm or snow condition.  That is all.
> >  My clothes system is simple.
> >
> > When I am sleeping, I wear long undershirt and long underpants only, I
> > wear sometimes light down vest in a very cold night ( -10 degree in
> > Centigrade ).
> >
> > Other my backpacking clothes are shorts, long gaiter (shorts and long
> > gaiter makes hypothetical long pants), socks(2 or 3), T shirts(2),
> > brief(2), and rain suits (my first and last barrier ) . I do not wear
> > these extra clothes when sleeping. So, I am carry too much as CHUCK
> > said.  I am not a UL backpacker. And I can carry them. That is the
> > reason.
> >
> > My recent sleeping system is Exped Downmat 7 Pump + Marmot Helium EQ
> > This combination is very warm. -20 degree in centigrade (-4 F) is OK.
> >
> > My favorite tent is Hileberg Akto. very versatile and strong tent. I
> > used this tent for 5 years. At last, I designed my original tent, and
> > ordered  to the tent maker. So, I will obtain lighter and stronger
> > tent in this summer.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2010/5/7 giniajim <jplynch at crosslink.net>:
> >> This is a good post, thanks for the contribution.  I would make a
> comment
> >> about the clothes-sleeping bag choices.  The selection of more clothes
> is
> >> probably dictated by the need to be warm while in camp between hiking
> (when
> >> you're generating heat) and sleeping (when you're in your sleeping
> bag).  So
> >> assuming you can wear your camp clothes at night in your sleeping bag,
> you
> >> can get away with a lighter bag.  Does that logic work?
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Yoshihiro Murakami
> >> To: Steve McAllister
> >> Cc: Pacific Crest Trail List
> >> Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 3:59 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [pct-l] On the Dangers of the UL Mentality
> >> Experience doesn't always mean good judgment nor outdoor skills.
> >>
> >> I strongly agree. We have limited resource and experience, but the
> >> hikers and climbers ( at least in Japan) tend to rely only on  their
> >> experience. Some times, the tragedy occurs.
> >>
> >> I will try to write my feeling of  UL briefly, because I have limited
> >> ability of writing and time ( I am at slavery job).
> >>
> >> I had read  Ryan Jordan (ed.) Lightweight Backpacking and Camping
> >> (Backpacking Light) , and I think I could understand their opinion,
> >> but I  could not agree with several points. I felt their movement
> >> contained a tendency to return to the primitivism and radicalism,
> >> sometimes lacked rationality or scientific findings.
> >>
> >> My first impression of Ryan (photo) was he was wearing too many
> >> clothes. In UL, it was frequently asserted that the weight of tent,
> >> sleeping bag and backpack should be reduced. But the reduction of
> >> weight induces sometimes difficult problems.
> >>
> >> --Clothes and sleeping bag--
> >>
> >> Why he wears many clothes? I think he reduced the weight of sleeping
> >> bag and pad. When  assumed total weight of clothes and sleeping bag to
> >> be constant,  the warmest combination will be a thin clothe and a
> >> thick sleeping bag. When we walking, heat is generated, we need not
> >> thick clothes. I think it is better to minimize the clothes and
> >> maximize the sleeping bag.
> >>
> >> --Footwear --
> >>
> >> On the footwear,  boots vs shoes dispute appeared in this ML, there
> >> are also many opinions. There are many variables concerning footwear,
> >> and  I had consulted the scientific research. I found several papers.
> >>
> >> ---Energy consumption
> >>
> >> Contrary to our expectation,   the energy consumption of shoes and
> >> boots is  equal, when walking speed is 5 km/h.  This was a limited
> >> experiments by G.R Tack et al. XXI ISB Congress, Poster Sessions,
> >> Wednesday 4 July 2007.
> >>
> >> When we are walking by shoes,  prominent jerks are observed and
> >> consume more energy. Boots is heavy, but they need lesser energy to
> >> stabilize our body. Then, on the energy consumption, boots and shoes
> >> may be equal.
> >>
> >> Matthew, et al. ( Gait and posture, 28, 427-433. 2008) also executed
> >> the walking experiments and proved that the ankle fixation does not
> >> increase the energy consumption.
> >>
> >> ---Injury
> >>
> >> I had already posted on this issue. Stewart et al. (Wilderness and
> >> Environmental Medicine 20, 250-256, 2009 ) investigated long -distance
> >> hikers, and found that the injury associated  only  with pack weight
> >> not with the footwear type. Boots are disliked sometime, but they were
> >> innocent.
> >>
> >> So, the boots vs shoes problem cannot be solved easily. The boots will
> >> be appropriate for a man like me, heavy body weight and traditional
> >> backpacking style, but not appropriate for a light weight man.
> >>
> >> I will omit the backpack, and tent vs tarp problems. But many people
> >> know the backpack without waist belt is not appropriate for hiking,
> >> and will select the backpacks with waist belt (which has extra weight
> >> ! ). Concerning tent vs tarp problem,   the very light tents exists.
> >> For example, Terra Nova Laser Photon Elite weighs only 1 lb 6 oz (624
> >> g).
> >>
> >> The important thing is to reduced the total pack weight within the
> >> secure range, this range is  different for individuals.
> >>
> >> I will walk JMT with very bulky and heavy backpack in this summer. I
> >> must carry English dictionary (If my English ability is superior,
> >> this  can be omitted, but I cannot.) and a heavy DSR (my hobby! ) and
> >> the necessities as a foreigner. But I will reduced my total pack
> >> weight within my secure range.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Sincerely
> >> --------------- --------------------------------------
> >> Hiro    ( Yoshihiro Murakami )
> >> HP:http://psycho01.edu.u-toyama.ac.jp
> >> http://picasaweb.google.co.jp/CompleteWalker/
> >> Backpacking for 30 years in Japan
> >> 2009 JMT, the first America.
> >> ------------------------------------------------------
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Pct-l mailing list
> >> Pct-l at backcountry.net
> >> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> >> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >>
> >> List Archives:
> >> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sincerely
> > --------------- --------------------------------------
> > Hiro    ( Yoshihiro Murakami )
> > HP:http://psycho01.edu.u-toyama.ac.jp
> > http://picasaweb.google.co.jp/CompleteWalker/
> > Backpacking for 30 years in Japan
> > 2009 JMT, the first America.
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Sincerely
> --------------- --------------------------------------
> Hiro    ( Yoshihiro Murakami )
> HP:http://psycho01.edu.u-toyama.ac.jp
> http://picasaweb.google.co.jp/CompleteWalker/
> Backpacking for 30 years in Japan
> 2009 JMT, the first America.
> ------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-l mailing list
> Pct-l at backcountry.net
> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-l mailing list
> Pct-l at backcountry.net
> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>