[pct-l] Giardia

[giniajim]

uh:
health = hiking = backcountry = water <clean/dirty>:
water <dirty> = sick = no hiking
water <clean> = healthy = keep hiking 
:)
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Ron Dye 
  To: 'Michael' ; pct-l at backcountry.net 
  Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 2:49 PM
  Subject: Re: [pct-l] Giardia


  When did this become a medical forum?

  HIKING HIKING HIKING

  -----Original Message-----
  From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
  On Behalf Of Michael
  Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 1:20 PM
  To: pct-l at backcountry.net
  Subject: Re: [pct-l] Giardia

  I don't want to get into an argument with anyone here, specifically because
  I am the noobie, but I cannot let pseudoscience (that is a claim, belief, or
  practice posing as science, but which does not constitute or adhere to an
  appropriate scientific methodology) fly by without a comment.

  Polio-This is a highly contagious virus that afflicted around 50,000
  Americans a year across all socio-economic groups until the Polio vaccine
  became a standard part of childhood vaccinations.  Utilizing a medical
  search, a service that gives me access to every peer-reviewed publication
  across the world (going back at least 90 years), and using the search terms
  "polio hypersterile", I found not one hit.  I don't use Wikipedia or the
  University of Google for my information.  Further, Polio is so contagious
  that you don't develop immunity, you get the disease.  It would be
  ridiculous to believe that you can get "exposure" to someone who had polio
  and not get it.  The virus is too virulent, so exposure leads to the
  disease, it does not provide immunity.  This sounds like the
  anti-vaccination crowd prevalent in our part of California, and which has
  lead to over 200 deaths of children who have gotten pertussis, a disease I
  haven't personally seen in 30 years.

  Ringworm-I did the same thing for this fungal infection (which causes what
  we call ringworm, athletes foot, jack itch and other infections), and the
  result was similar.  The only hit I got that said it might help was from a
  Journal of Alternative Medicine that is summarily dismissed for it's
  pseudoscience.  In fact, most of the articles showed long term infection
  from ringworm and other skin fungi may actually lead to autoimmune diseases
  such as arthritis.

  Once again, I stand by my statement.  Exposure to virulent diseases only
  gets you sick.  Period.  If there was any scientific rationale in keeping
  humans exposed to bacteria, viruses and parasites, then we should quit
  spending billions of dollars on our water system, and invest it in PCT
  police to keep the mountain bikers away (which is one of my pet peeves,
  despite loving mountain biking myself).  Let's say you're partially correct,
  that we should get some infections.  The problem is twofold:  what are the
  "good" infections, and what about the scientific fact that any disease has
  some known and significant rate of mortality?  We can't, and that's why we
  live 70-80 years, and we lived for 40, 100 years ago.

  As for drinking water if you're dying of dehydration, your point is what?  I
  would say the same thing.

  And please, anecdotes and appeals to authority aren't productive.  You say
  you know a huge number of people who didn't get sick.  Is that published
  somewhere so I can review?  What exactly is the number?  How many got sick
  and didn't tell you personally?  Did you survey everyone who passed through
  to determine the healthy group v the group who got sick?  


  On Oct 23, 2010, at 10:00 :03PDT, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:


  ----------------------------------------------------------------------

  Message: 1
  Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 07:30:11 -0700
  From: Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes <diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
  Subject: Re: [pct-l] Giardia
  To: pct-l at backcountry.net
  Message-ID:
  <C5EA5A38-606B-4A0D-A3D5-04AD572F2DD9 at santabarbarahikes.com>
  Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed


  On Oct 22, 2010, at 9:11 PM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:

  > And whoever said we need germs to stay healthy really shouldn't say  
  > something like that.

  Just two examples:

  Polio - turned out that hyper sterile environments prevented children  
  from exposure to polio when they were younger and better able to form  
  an immunity

  Ringworm - turns out people who have gotten ringworm don't get  
  arthritis or other auto-immune disorders. We evolved with a lot of  
  these organisms we now fear and do not fully understand the symbiosis  
  that may be present with any number of them.

  We're not talking smallpox here. We're talking about people going  
  overboard in fear of germs in the water. I suggest using products  
  like aquamira or a filter as per the instructions and then not  
  worrying about it any further. As a Sierra Club hike leader in an  
  arid part of the country, I always recommend to people to drink the  
  water, unfiltered if you have to, rather than go without and risk  
  dehydration or worse. You may get sick, but you can be treated. They  
  still don't have a cure for death.

  Meanwhile, I know that a huge number of PCT hikers do not treat all  
  their water and don't get sick. I was one of them.

  Also, there's a good article out there from the Sacramento Bee about  
  water purity in the High Sierra and elsewhere.
  http://www.sacbee.com/2010/04/25/2703875/bee-exclusive-livestock- 
  waste.html



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