[pct-l] Giardia & pseudoscience

[Reinhold Metzger]

Keep it up Michael...you hit the nail right on the head.
We need more of this factual information, backed by scientific data, to 
counter the incorrect naive statements, which have no scientific 
backing, by some of our naive self proclaimed experts, which can get 
other hikers, who
may rely on that in false information, into trouble.
As you can see, you can't believe everything you read on this list.
Information, like yours, backed by facts or scientific data is greatly 
needed and appreciated on this list.
But don't give up on this list just yet....many hard-core experienced 
hikers communicate on this list and it is a great source of information 
for aspiring PCT hikers or any kind of hiking.
You just have to learn which information you can rely on and which 
information to dismiss.
Good luck on your PCT hike.

JMT Reinhold
----------------------------------------------------
Michael wrote:
I don't want to get into an argument with anyone here, specifically 
because I am the noobie, but I cannot let pseudoscience (that is a 
claim, belief, or practice posing as science, but which does not 
constitute or adhere to an appropriate scientific methodology) fly by 
without a comment.
  Polio-This is a highly contagious virus that afflicted around 50,000 
Americans a year across all socio-economic groups until the Polio 
vaccine became a standard part of childhood vaccinations.
  Utilizing a medical search, a service that gives me access to every 
peer-reviewed publication across the world (going back at least 90 
years), and using the search terms "polio hypersterile", I found not one 
hit.
  I don't use Wikipedia or the University of Google for my information.
  Further, Polio is so contagious that you don't develop immunity, you 
get the disease.
  It would be ridiculous to believe that you can get "exposure" to 
someone who had polio and not get it.
  The virus is too virulent, so exposure leads to the disease, it does 
not provide immunity.
This sounds like the anti-vaccination crowd prevalent in our part of 
California, and which has lead to over 200 deaths of children who have 
gotten pertussis, a disease I haven't personally seen in 30 years.
  Ringworm-I did the same thing for this fungal infection (which causes 
what we call ringworm, athletes foot, jack itch and other infections), 
and the result was similar.
  The only hit I got that said it might help was from a Journal of 
Alternative Medicine that is summarily dismissed for it's pseudoscience.
  In fact, most of the articles showed long term infection from ringworm 
and other skin fungi may actually lead to autoimmune diseases such as 
arthritis.
  Once again, I stand by my statement.
  Exposure to virulent diseases only gets you sick. Period.
  If there was any scientific rationale in keeping humans exposed to 
bacteria, viruses and parasites, then we should quit spending billions 
of dollars on our water system, and invest it in PCT police to keep the 
mountain bikers away (which is one of my pet peeves, despite loving 
mountain biking myself).
  Let's say you're partially correct, that we should get some infections.
The problem is twofold: what are the "good" infections, and what about 
the scientific fact that any disease has some known and significant rate 
of mortality?
  We can't, and that's why we live 70-80 years, and we lived for 40, 100 
years ago.
  As for drinking water if you're dying of dehydration, your point is 
what? I would say the same thing.
And please, anecdotes and appeals to authority aren't productive.
  You say you know a huge number of people who didn't get sick.
  Is that published somewhere so I can review?
  What exactly is the number?  How many got sick and didn't tell you 
personally?
  Did you survey everyone who passed through to determine the healthy 
group v the group who got sick?
------------------------------------------------
Diane wrote:

/<And whoever said we need germs to stay healthy really shouldn't 
say//something like that.> /

Just two examples:
  Polio - turned out that hyper sterile environments prevented children 
from exposure to polio when they were younger and better able to form an 
immunity
  Ringworm - turns out people who have gotten ringworm don't get 
arthritis or other auto-immune disorders. We evolved with a lot of these 
organisms we now fear and do not fully understand the symbiosis that may 
be present with any number of them.
  We're not talking smallpox here. We're talking about people going 
overboard in fear of germs in the water.
  I suggest using products like aquamira or a filter as per the 
instructions and then not worrying about it any further.
As a Sierra Club hike leader in an arid part of the country, I always 
recommend to people to drink the water, unfiltered if you have to, 
rather than go without and risk dehydration or worse.
  You may get sick, but you can be treated.
They still don't have a cure for death.
  Meanwhile, I know that a huge number of PCT hikers do not treat all 
their water and don't get sick.
  I was one of them.
Also, there's a good article out there from the Sacramento Bee about 
water purity in the High Sierra and elsewhere. 
http://www.sacbee.com/2010/04/25/2703875/bee-exclusive-livestock- 
waste.html