[pct-l] Giardia

Sun Oct 24 15:56:10 CDT 2010

Paul ( AKA "Tangent") is the ultimate reputable source for PCT information.  Plus he's done the Big Walk twice, with style, or at least when I had the pleasure of witnessing him in action.
Uncle Tom 

On Oct 23, 2010, at 9:19 PM, Paul Bodnar wrote:

> 
> Thank you for the scientific information.  
> 
> My website has additional information on water http://hikethru.com/hiking-information/water  and http://hikethru.com/hiking-information/water/water-pathogens .  The information is from scientific sources and could benefit others in understanding water contaminants.  
> 
> Thank you again for your information.
> 
> Paul
> 
> P.S.  I just finished hiking the the PCT this year, finished September 25th.  And I'm proud to say I walked every step from the Mexican border to Canada.  If any future PCT hiker has any questions I would be happy to help out the best I can.  
> 
> 
>> From: michael at leftcoastman.com
>> Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 17:37:25 -0700
>> To: abiegen at cox.net
>> CC: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Giardia
>> 
>> Thank you for the Wikipedia article quote. My search was specifically to peer-reviewed articles and to the OP's statement, and the WHO article does not meet that standard. But, in fact, the article does not in anyway support anything but the first sentence. In Wikipedia terms, the last sentences are what is called "original research" meaning it isn't supported. By that logic, we should end sewage treatment, which is not rational. 
>> 
>> Your second comment that most people fully recover means not 100% do. Again, if 1% get cripple or die, then the prevention is critical. Same with water treatment. If there is 1% probability of a giardia or crypto or e. coli or salmonella (I could go one, of course) infection that is preventable at low cost, then I will remove that 1% risk. I intend to bring bug repellant partially because biting insects are annoying, but, again, there is some small risk of some disease. We don't choose to live in bubbles, or we wouldn't choose to hike the PCT. I tend to manage risk as best I can, so that I have the most fun experience possible. I might fall down a cliff too. Or get hit on my motorcycle. Or get hit in a parking lot by a junk driver (my personal fun experience).
>> 
>> The rest of your comments are probably off topic and really personal opinion. I have found over the years in standing up against quack medicine that people form opinions based on opinion and anecdote. It is impossible to move them from those opinions. That's why people believe in alien abductions, homeopathy, creationism, acupuncture, and sasquatch. 
>> 
>> Your choice to drink the water, not mine. Your choice is based on observation bias, personal bias and anecdotal evidence. My choice is based on science. Filtration, extremely small chance of bugs. 
>> 
>> I'm moving on from this particular thread. 
>> 
>> On Oct 23, 2010, at 15:17 :24PDT, <abiegen at cox.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Michael wrote:\
>>> Utilizing a medical search, a service that 
>>> gives me access to every peer-reviewed publication across the world (going back 
>>> at least 90 years), and using the search terms "polio hypersterile", I found not 
>>> one hit.
>> 
>> Well if you are looking for exact phrasing you are going to find very little. I'm afraid you should have dug a little deeper:
>> 
>> Before the 20th century, polio infections were rarely seen in infants before six months of age, most cases occurring in children six months to four years of age.[84] Poorer sanitation of the time resulted in a constant exposure to the virus, which enhanced a natural immunity within the population. In developed countries during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, improvements were made in community sanitation, including better sewage disposal and clean water supplies. These changes drastically increased the proportion of children and adults at risk of paralytic polio infection, by reducing childhood exposure and immunity to the disease.
>> 
>> [84] Robertson S (1993). "Module 6: Poliomyelitis" (PDF). The Immunological Basis for Immunization Series. World Health Organization. Geneva, Switzerland.. http://www.who.int/vaccines-documents/DocsPDF-IBI-e/mod6_e.pdf. Retrieved 2008-08-23.
>> 
>> Please note that people were healthier with poorer sanitation when it came to polio. You should also note that most people who contracted polio even the most severe spinal and brain infections fully recover.
>> 
>> Michael wrote:
>> 
>>> Ringworm?I did the same thing for this fungal infection (which causes what we 
>>> call ringworm, athletes foot, jack itch and other infections), and the result 
>>> was similar.
>> 
>> Well, Diane said ringworm but she meant Hookworm. Hookworm (Ancylostoma duodenale and Necator americanus) is a nasty little parasite that can have very nasty effects but researchers have noticed that people who have hookworms never get auto-immune diseases. Some how the nematode dampens the response of the immune system. Researchers are looking into how they can use this to fight autoimmune disorders.
>> 
>> The important point is that we evolved with all these organism and there have been adaptations on both sides. When we try to live in hyper sterile or super clean environments we can mess up that balance. I believe that we are just at the point of realizing that we as a society have traded episodic diseases which can be dangerous but usually just make us sick for a short while, for chronic autoimmune diseases like arthritis, Diabetes mellitus type 1, Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, etc. I believe that this is because we try to live such sterile lives. Our immune systems were designed to be busy. If we don't keep them busy, they will find something else to do, and that something else is likely to be attacking other cells we don't want it to attack.
>> 
>> Part of the bargain when hiking the PCT is that you are going to get dirty and you are not going to be able to get clean. Can't we just enjoy that for a while, and wouldn't it be great to know that maybe it is actually making us healthier?
>> 
>> TrailHacker,
>> 
>> "When my feet hurt, I can't think straight"
>> Abraham Lincoln
>> 
>> 
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