[pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 40, Issue 4
Ken and Wanda Brimmer
kbrimmer at cccomm.net
Sat Apr 2 20:55:09 CDT 2011
Hey S,
It is a good thing you didn't invite me to hike today. I was working on
a little cold yesterday (Rayne, the kindergartener ) sneezed directly on me
on Tuesday and then she was sick as a pup on Wednesday, missed Thursday and
back to share her joy on Friday. I struggled all night and got up for
breakfast, back to bed after breakfast where I stayed most of the day. I'm
feeling a little better right now. I guess you could say they gave me a
little going away present.
Kelly sent me a text. Brian's mother is very ill (Reno) and Kelly is
spending every free moment taking care of her. She apologized for not being
in touch but said that the only thing that keeps her going is thinking about
the time we spend together and our upcoming adventures. So, I'm back to
planning for a threesome in July and September.
Plan on coming to school in the afternoon, if at all possible. We have
a guest Spanish teacher who comes in at 10:30 for Spanish lessons. We have
lunch at 12:00 and Rayne leaves at 12:30. You can also come prior to 10:30,
if that works better for you.
I have an appointment with R. after school on Monday to discuss several
issues. I've written her a letter outlining changes that must occur but
will tell her directly as well. This isn't easy to do.....as you
know....but I've been deligated.
I want to give you a heads up for our travels. Our calendar is
beginning to fill up for spring and summer travels. We really need to
schedule some tough day hikes prior to our July hike and then we need to hit
it hard in August. I don't think we need any overnighters because we know
our equipment well enough. After this next week, I can also hike during the
week and save the weekend for Nat and Barb. Beginning this next weekend I
will be tied up nearly every other Saturday on other commitments. We will
be going down to see Jeff in the middle of May for a week.
--------------------------------------------------
From: <pct-l-request at backcountry.net>
Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 4:18 PM
To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Subject: Pct-L Digest, Vol 40, Issue 4
> Send Pct-L mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Recall of SPOT (Mike Schaeffer)
> 2. Re: Face Protection While Sleeping (Paul Robison)
> 3. Re: Fwd: Jumping Cholla! (Rod Belshee)
> 4. Re: Hiking Naked (Reinhold Metzger)
> 5. food weight (Reinhold Metzger)
> 6. Re: Face Protection While Sleeping (backcountryblazer at gmail.com)
> 7. Re: Fwd: Jumping Cholla! (Brandon McGinnity)
> 8. Hood and Rainier (jomike at cot.net)
> 9. Re: Handheld GPS Recommendations - update (Tortoise)
> 10. SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question (Donna Saufley)
> 11. Re: SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question (Ate Tuna)
> 12. Re: SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question (Bob Bankhead)
> 13. Re: Handheld GPS Recommendations - update (Paul Robison)
> 14. Washington weather and your Timing (Andrea Dinsmore)
> 15. Re: SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question (Donna Saufley)
> 16. Re: SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question (Paul Robison)
> 17. Re: SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
> (Brandon McGinnity)
> 18. Jumping Cholla! (eckert)
> 19. Re: SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
> (mikepinkus at hotmail.com)
> 20. Re: Washington weather and your Timing (Brandon McGinnity)
> 21. Re: SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question (Ate Tuna)
> 22. Re: SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question (Paul Robison)
> 23. Re: SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
> (mikepinkus at hotmail.com)
> 24. Re: Fwd: Jumping Cholla! (Brandon McGinnity)
> 25. Re: SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
> (mikepinkus at hotmail.com)
> 26. Re: SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
> (dnielsen at djmurphycompany.com)
> 27. Re: SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
> (mikepinkus at hotmail.com)
> 28. Re: SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question (Bill Burge)
> 29. Food/money (Axel Roos)
> 30. Re: Food/money (Ate Tuna)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 10:24:36 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Mike Schaeffer <chiefrat2006 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Recall of SPOT
> To: Emily Mathews <emmat at yahoo.com>, Paul Robison
> <paulrobisonhome at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>, PCT List
> <pctlist at gmail.com>
> Message-ID: <759546.70484.qm at web38601.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> I just got a call from SPOT.? I pleaded my case to them and they bought my
> story.? A new SPOT is on its way by Fed Ex to arrive the day before I
> leave.
> They are trusting me on the honor system to return the old SPOT.
>
> I thought the timing was really bad announcing a recall on a Friday.? I
> didn't
> expect any help on the weekend.? It was a real surprise when he called on
> Saturday.? If the recall had been a day later, I wouldn't have had the
> SPOT in
> time and would have had to get it mailed to me somewhere in SoCal.? Now
> I'll
> have it the first night out on the trail.? That way?from Lake Morena I can
> send
> home a message to my wife so she'll know I've hiked a whole day without
> being
> eaten by a bear or mountain lion, bitten by a rattlesnake,?robbed by
> aliens, or
> had any other bad things happen.
>
> Mike Schaeffer
> AT '78
> PCT '11
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Emily Mathews <emmat at yahoo.com>
> To: Paul Robison <paulrobisonhome at yahoo.com>; Mike Schaeffer
> <chiefrat2006 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: PCT List <pctlist at gmail.com>; "pct-l at backcountry.net"
> <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 4:20:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Recall of SPOT
>
>
> Hi Mike,
> ?SPOT offered to configure the ESN # (I think that is what it is called)
> before
> shipping it .. but I am going on a 4 day shakedown hike on Sunday, so
> instead
> they will set the number over the phone when I get back.
>
> It may help to ask them to do this for you before they send it.
> Emily
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Paul Robison <paulrobisonhome at yahoo.com>
> To: Mike Schaeffer <chiefrat2006 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: Emily Mathews <emmat at yahoo.com>; PCT List <pctlist at gmail.com>;
> "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 12:22:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Recall of SPOT
>
> Can they send it to Julian or something?? Might be faster tha sending it
> to yur
> house and then from your house to you via resupply person
>
> Sent from my iPod
>
> On 2011-04-01, at 3:11 PM, Mike Schaeffer <chiefrat2006 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> That's encouraging.? SPOT tells me that they arelooking into expediting
>> my
>> replacement.? I think they want to see if it is physically possible to
>> ship me
>
>> another unit and have it arrive before my April 6 am plane flight to San
>>Diego.?
>>
>> My fingers are crossed.
>>
>> Mike Schaeffer
>> AT '78
>> PCT '11
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Emily Mathews <emmat at yahoo.com>
>> To: PCT List <pctlist at gmail.com>; pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 1:21:07 PM
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Recall of SPOT
>>
>> I have one of these devices and just got off the phone with SPOT .. they
>> are
>> expediting my replacement .. just another thing to do before the big
>> hike!
>>
>> Emily
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: PCT List <pctlist at gmail.com>
>> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 8:58:35 AM
>> Subject: [pct-l] Recall of SPOT
>>
>> Thanks Bob!
>>
>> SPOT has sent an email to their customers, however I've sent an email
>> to postholer.com journalists who's devices fell into the recall
>> category. Fortunately, only 3 journalists had these bad devices.
>>
>> -postholer
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 13:37:43 -0400
> From: Paul Robison <paulrobisonhome at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Face Protection While Sleeping
> To: CHUCK CHELIN <steeleye at wildblue.net>
> Cc: PCT listserve <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <A4DC9344-F7E4-4EB1-A6D1-C9619FA6A641 at yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> THanks for the tips... Winter camping is my background; so I'm very used
> to the mummy bag etc; my big worry is in trying to not freeze and still
> be under 11 or so lbs base... Maybe adding something extremely light.
>
> Last night I slept in my tent and I used a smartwool beanie; and even
> though that was not over my face itself I think it made a big
> difference... Hard to tell though cause it was also 35 degrees instead of
> 22.
>
> Poured rain all night and I was able to keep dry in this 'ultralight
> pitiful excuse for a shelter'. Still some condensation; but just a fog
> really; nothing that dripped or ran down the walls. So my confidence is
> better. Seems anything over 30 will be quite comfy; and if last year is
> any indication; there's really only going to be a handful on nights in the
> 20's. I'm trying to get in he mindset of packing for the 90% not the 4%
> of nights.
>
> Thanks steeleye for your thoughtful reply... And all others as well...
>
> Shoomer I took your advice and kept one side vestibule up all nice and I
> thought the breeze was refreshing... And it did stay dry.
>
> Thanks again to all,
> ~Paul
>
> Sent from my iPod
>
> On 2011-04-02, at 11:41 AM, CHUCK CHELIN <steeleye at wildblue.net> wrote:
>
>> Paul: "one thing i definitely need is some kind of face muff; i felt
>> like
>> my nose and
>> lips were going to fall off, despite having sweaty feet." ... anyone
>> have
>> good suggestions on how to keep the face warm without feeling
>> suffocated?"
>>
>> Good morning, Paul,
>>
>> This is in regard to you request for suggestions for keeping the face
>> warm
>> in the sleeping bag without feeling suffocated. Being rather lacking of
>> top-of-the-head hair I carry, and almost always sleep in, a knit stocking
>> hat, but I have a relatively high resistance to claustrophobia so my
>> methods
>> may not be appropriate for others.
>>
>> I haven?t found the PCT to be particularly cold anytime during a normal
>> three-season hike: Certainly frost-on-the-bag cold when I sleep under
>> the
>> stars, and maybe dropping from the low thirties F to the mid-twenties,
>> but
>> at those temperatures I do not pucker the top of the mummy bag; I only
>> wear
>> the stocking hat. That?s mostly because I like to have my head out to
>> see
>> and listen rather than being something done to avoid claustrophobia.
>>
>> In much colder sleeping conditions ? I?ve slept out under the stars in
>> winter temperatures as low as -22F ? I pucker the bag top to an
>> approximate
>> 4? diameter hole as well as wearing the hat. My medium/cold weather
>> sleeping bags have the resulting hole nominally on the top of the bag,
>> while
>> I am primarily a side-sleeper. I could twist the bag around to have the
>> hole near my face, but I don?t. By side-sleeping with the hole on top I
>> get
>> sufficient air while not having any skin directly inside the hole.
>> When/if
>> I feel the need for more air I just lift my topside arm a few inches
>> which
>> increases the inside volume of the bag by sucking in more air through the
>> hole. On cold nights I also wear my fleece or wool gloves. I don?t
>> really
>> need the hand warmth, but I usually sleep with one hand near my face, and
>> the glove helps keep my nose warm.
>>
>> For sleeping I?ve tried several styles of hat, but none seem to beat the
>> combination of light weight, versatility, and top protection provided by
>> a
>> standard, cheap-o, single-thickness, knit hat. I have several balaclavas
>> and ski masks ? both knitted and fleece ? but I don?t find the extra
>> coverage necessary, and invariably during the night they get twisted
>> around
>> causing me aggravation. I also have several fitted, cold weather,
>> skullcaps
>> normally worn under a helmet or hardhat. They work OK, and I sometimes
>> carry them on the trail, but their bottom edge is contoured to cover the
>> ears and when twisted around out of place they cover my eyes while
>> exposing
>> my ears, which is a nuisance.
>>
>> Steel-Eye
>>
>> Hiking the Pct since before it was the PCT ? 1965
>>
>> http://www.trailjournals.com/steel-eye
>>
>> http://www.trailjournals.com/SteelEye09
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 10:43:36 -0700
> From: "Rod Belshee" <rbelshee at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Fwd: Jumping Cholla!
> To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <SNT128-DS19FD6D258AFA778936FBCCCDA10 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Caution is in order. In 2004, one unfortunate hiker got a spine in his
> knee. It became infected and he was off the trail for a couple of weeks
> for
> his doctor to clean it out. When he returned to resume hike, his knee
> swelled radically. Hike over. Yuk.
>
> Steady Sr
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 11:04:54 -0700
> From: Reinhold Metzger <reinholdmetzger at cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Hiking Naked
> To: patti kulesz <peprmintpati88 at yahoo.com>, PCT
> <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <4D976546.1060606 at cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Yes Sugar Moma.....I mean patti,
> That is because the rest of me was already well tanned....the girls like
> me better that way.
> Besides, there are some parts of your body that you never ever want to
> get sun burned.
>
> JMT Reinhold
> Your well tanned trail companion
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
> On 3/22/2011 8:37 AM, patti kulesz wrote:
>> ur lucky that's ALL that got burned u silly!
>> Sugar Moma
>> ---------------------------------
>> ***From:* Reinhold Metzger <reinholdmetzger at cox.net>**
>> Yes Shroomer,.....that is why I don't hike naked in the snow.
>> I hiked naked once in the Grand Canyon, a few years ago.
>> It was 110+ degrees in the shade, except there was no shade, on a
>> isolated,
>> very primitive trail.
>> I was sweating profusely and already hiking top less when I told
>> myself there
>> ain't nobody else out here, might as well take it all off and go
>> natural and
>> I did.
>> Unfortunately the part of my body not covered by the pack,...namely
>> "the rear
>> end", got sun burned severely.....made sitting very uncomfortable.
>> I gave up hiking naked after that.
>>
>> JMT Reinhold
>> Your well tanned trail companion
>> ------------------------------------
>> Shroomer wrote:
>>
>> Well, one of the best post holing stories I've heard recently was told
>> the
>> day after the Muir tour and BBQ, while I was hiking Mt. Diablo with Huff
>> n
>> Puff and Coyote. It seems their group kind of liked naked hiking day in
>> 2008 (June 21), especially Huff n Puff, and they continued nakedly
>> walking
>> the High Sierra as often as they could get away with it. One day Huff n
>> Puff was blithely stepping from sun cup to sun cup in his altogether,
>> when
>> he broke through and posted up to his nuts in the crunchy stuff.
>> Given the
>> scratchiness of the snow on his unprotected parts, he couldn't extricate
>> himself from the hole, and he needed the help of Coyote, and some other
>> equally beautiful naked woman to reach between his legs and lift him out.
>> Coyote swears she didn't look, and tried not to touch, but it was to
>> save
>> life and limb. It's a very funny story to hear them tell it, and all the
>> more reason to hike naked in post holing conditions with a co-ed
>> group, and
>> just one more reason for leaving the snowshoes behind. I think JMT
>> Reinhold
>> and the Pirate could learn something from this. I mean, what's a post
>> hole
>> among friends.
>>
>> Shroomer
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 11:22:36 -0700
> From: Reinhold Metzger <reinholdmetzger at cox.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] food weight
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net, Melanie Clarke <melaniekclarke at gmail.com>,
> Hiker97 <hiker97 at aol.com>
> Message-ID: <4D97696C.3000603 at cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Yes Melanie,
> Switchback has this down to a science.
>
> JMT Reinhold
> Your malnourished trail companion
> -----------------------------------------------
> Melanie wrote:
> Fat calories are the easiest to carry as your body derives more energy
> per weight.
> That is why your body stores extra energy as fat in your body.
> It is the easiest to carry around.
> Melanie
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 18:42:44 +0000
> From: backcountryblazer at gmail.com
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Face Protection While Sleeping
> To: "nosirreeb" <nosirreeb at yahoo.com>, pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net,
> pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <1460635940-1301769827-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-679160297- at bda225.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> That's awesome!
> ------Original Message------
> From: nosirreeb
> Sender: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net
> To: pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
> Subject: [pct-l] Face Protection While Sleeping
> Sent: Apr 2, 2011 9:28 AM
>
> I use one of those cheap $1 dust masks found at any hardware store and
> line it with the heel cut from an old ragg wool sock. It's very
> breathable, lightweight, and crushable.
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>
>
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 13:46:30 -0500
> From: Brandon McGinnity <bmcginnity at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Fwd: Jumping Cholla!
> To: Rod Belshee <rbelshee at hotmail.com>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTin0-sko6aanHk-+N2Q03rfpU1DyM3e=LmY-1QjG at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Oh. my. god. that dude on the golf course must have been in unbelievable
> pain. 3 HOURS to pull them out. Lord. I thought kicking a prickly pear
> when
> wearing flip flops was bad, but oh man. Where are these things on the PCT?
> I'm going to have to be on high alert for that...
>
> On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 12:43 PM, Rod Belshee <rbelshee at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Caution is in order. In 2004, one unfortunate hiker got a spine in his
>> knee. It became infected and he was off the trail for a couple of weeks
>> for
>> his doctor to clean it out. When he returned to resume hike, his knee
>> swelled radically. Hike over. Yuk.
>>
>> Steady Sr
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ~ Moccasin
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 11:57:57 -0700
> From: <jomike at cot.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] Hood and Rainier
> To: <samward36 at gmail.com>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <A4204F2133C741DB99066AB84C71B4F9 at arewethereyePC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Mt. Shasta would be possible. Late spring/early summer are the favored
> times to climb Shasta but many do it later than that. You should be coming
> through here between July and August. Let me know if you'll need some
> trail magic and I'll see you get to and from the trail to the Mountain,
> and to our house for a zero if you're interested. We've hosted six guys
> who have done Shasta during a thru hike.
>
> are we there yet
>
>
> ...going to the mountains is going home.
>
> John Muir
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 12:11:02 -0700
> From: Tortoise <Tortoise73 at charter.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Handheld GPS Recommendations - update
> To: Tortoise73 at charter.net
> Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>,
> "bighummel at aol.com" <bighummel at aol.com>
> Message-ID: <4D9774C6.9040806 at charter.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>
> I contacted Garmin tech support. following their instructions I reloaded
> system software, did a system reset, and purged specified files from
> memory. I have fewer problems but still have had a lock up and a track
> that
> just won't delete. Contacted Garmin tech support again Thursday eve and
> haven't heard back. Waiting for Garmin's response before deciding what to
> do with the unit.
>
> Tortoise
>
> <> Because truth matters.<>
>
>
>
>
> On 03/22/11 22:09, Tortoise wrote:
>> I received my new Garmin Dakota 20 from REI yesterday. Took it out with
>> me today while trying to figure out what buttons to touch to get what I
>> want, the unit froze up twice. Had to turn it off and restart. Just lost
>> some menu items and had to reset it to "original settings". This unit
>> seems to really use up the battery. I put new lithium AAs in it and after
>> only ~3 hours of use the battery indicator indicates the cells are were
>> 40% gone and then 60% gone. I still haven't decided if I like the
>> structure of the menus or the ease of operating the unit.
>> Tortoise
>>
>> <> Because truth matters.<>
>>
>> On 03/22/11 19:46, Devon Taig wrote:
>>> I don't have much to compare it to, but the Etrex HTX is amazing at
>>> keeping a fix in even the densest forest. Very accurate too. Integrates
>>> well with all the computer software I've seen too.
>>>
>>> Sent from my Windows Phone From: Halfmile
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 6:13 PM
>>> To:bighummel at aol.com
>>> Cc:pct-l at backcountry.net
>>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Handheld GPS Recommendations
>>> Greg,
>>> If it's work related I would look at a Garmin GPSMap62s. The smaller
>>> lighter Garmin Dakota 20 or Etrex Vista HCx would be my
>>> recommendations for most hikers. The Garmin Foretrex 401 at 2.3 ounces
>>> (with lithium batteries, but the wrist strap removed) would be a good
>>> choice for ultra lighters who don't mind working with UTM grids on
>>> paper maps.
>>> -Halfmile
>>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 12:48:02 -0700
> From: "Donna Saufley" <dsaufley at sprynet.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
> To: <pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <000101cbf16e$e0e10150$a2a303f0$@com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> This morning we stopped by our local hardware store. The owner Trish, who
> has done countless kindnesses for hikers including donating denatured
> alcohol, gave us her last three cans and told us she will not be able to
> order any more. She said South Coast Air Quality Management District Rule
> 1143 is the reason; it bans numerous paint solvents within their district
> boundaries www.aqmd.gov/news1/2009/Rule1143PR.html
>
>
>
> According to their map, www.aqmd.gov/map/mapaqmd1.pdf the PCT goes through
> SCAQMD boundardies from San Bernardino to where the trail meets the Mojave
> floor at Hwy 138. "Rule 1143 - Reduction of VOC Emissions from Consumer
> Paint Thinners and Multi-Purpose Solvents establishes an interim VOC limit
> of 300 grams/liter (g/l,) effective January 1, 2010, and a VOC limit of 25
> g/l effective January 1, 2011, for all consumer paint thinners and
> multi-purpose solvents."
>
>
>
> The denatured alcohol we've been using (the cans Trish just donated) is
> VOC:
> 815 g/L, obviously way in excess of the new limit within the district.
> Can
> anyone verify the VOC of Heet? Or know if the new lower VOC products will
> work in stoves?
>
>
>
> It sounds like SCAQMD is acting as environmental leaders with this rule,
> and
> I have not heard that denatured and other solvents will be banned in other
> areas. Imagining enforcement on the PCT is difficult. However, hikers
> may
> not be able to buy denatured at resupply locations within the district,
> and
> other regions may be considering similar bans.
>
>
>
> L-Rod
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 12:54:46 -0700
> From: Ate Tuna <atetuna at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
> To: Donna Saufley <dsaufley at sprynet.com>
> Cc: pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <BANLkTik6+mh56pAEjnrvXi9ECJkCYx=kVg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> HEET is 794.5315 g/L. I have no idea if there's a newer low VOC.
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 12:48 PM, Donna Saufley <dsaufley at sprynet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> This morning we stopped by our local hardware store. The owner Trish,
>> who
>> has done countless kindnesses for hikers including donating denatured
>> alcohol, gave us her last three cans and told us she will not be able to
>> order any more. She said South Coast Air Quality Management District
>> Rule
>> 1143 is the reason; it bans numerous paint solvents within their
>> district
>> boundaries www.aqmd.gov/news1/2009/Rule1143PR.html
>>
>>
>>
>> According to their map, www.aqmd.gov/map/mapaqmd1.pdf the PCT goes
>> through
>> SCAQMD boundardies from San Bernardino to where the trail meets the
>> Mojave
>> floor at Hwy 138. "Rule 1143 - Reduction of VOC Emissions from Consumer
>> Paint Thinners and Multi-Purpose Solvents establishes an interim VOC
>> limit
>> of 300 grams/liter (g/l,) effective January 1, 2010, and a VOC limit of
>> 25
>> g/l effective January 1, 2011, for all consumer paint thinners and
>> multi-purpose solvents."
>>
>>
>>
>> The denatured alcohol we've been using (the cans Trish just donated) is
>> VOC:
>> 815 g/L, obviously way in excess of the new limit within the district.
>> Can
>> anyone verify the VOC of Heet? Or know if the new lower VOC products
>> will
>> work in stoves?
>>
>>
>>
>> It sounds like SCAQMD is acting as environmental leaders with this rule,
>> and
>> I have not heard that denatured and other solvents will be banned in
>> other
>> areas. Imagining enforcement on the PCT is difficult. However, hikers
>> may
>> not be able to buy denatured at resupply locations within the district,
>> and
>> other regions may be considering similar bans.
>>
>>
>>
>> L-Rod
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 12:55:24 -0700
> From: "Bob Bankhead" <wandering_bob at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
> To: "'Donna Saufley'" <dsaufley at sprynet.com>,
> <pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <001f01cbf16f$e8476cd0$b8d64670$@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Yet another example of poor judgment by California officials. Your tax
> dollars at work.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
> On Behalf Of Donna Saufley
> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:48 PM
> To: pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
> Subject: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>
> This morning we stopped by our local hardware store. The owner Trish, who
> has done countless kindnesses for hikers including donating denatured
> alcohol, gave us her last three cans and told us she will not be able to
> order any more. She said South Coast Air Quality Management District Rule
> 1143 is the reason; it bans numerous paint solvents within their district
> boundaries www.aqmd.gov/news1/2009/Rule1143PR.html
>
>
>
> According to their map, www.aqmd.gov/map/mapaqmd1.pdf the PCT goes through
> SCAQMD boundardies from San Bernardino to where the trail meets the Mojave
> floor at Hwy 138. "Rule 1143 - Reduction of VOC Emissions from Consumer
> Paint Thinners and Multi-Purpose Solvents establishes an interim VOC limit
> of 300 grams/liter (g/l,) effective January 1, 2010, and a VOC limit of 25
> g/l effective January 1, 2011, for all consumer paint thinners and
> multi-purpose solvents."
>
>
>
> The denatured alcohol we've been using (the cans Trish just donated) is
> VOC:
> 815 g/L, obviously way in excess of the new limit within the district.
> Can
> anyone verify the VOC of Heet? Or know if the new lower VOC products will
> work in stoves?
>
>
>
> It sounds like SCAQMD is acting as environmental leaders with this rule,
> and
> I have not heard that denatured and other solvents will be banned in other
> areas. Imagining enforcement on the PCT is difficult. However, hikers
> may
> not be able to buy denatured at resupply locations within the district,
> and
> other regions may be considering similar bans.
>
>
>
> L-Rod
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 16:09:37 -0400
> From: Paul Robison <paulrobisonhome at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Handheld GPS Recommendations - update
> To: "Tortoise73 at charter.net" <Tortoise73 at charter.net>
> Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>,
> "bighummel at aol.com" <bighummel at aol.com>, "Tortoise73 at charter.net"
> <Tortoise73 at charter.net>
> Message-ID: <BAED6FD1-902E-4005-8A8E-9ED44FA1FF81 at yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I've been using my Dakota 20 for the last 3 days nonstop... And about
> twice a week before that. Gotten between 22 and 28 continuous hours out
> of 2 lithium AA's.
>
> Been using custom tracks made from 'GPS Expert' ( thanks halfmile) ... And
> it's been typically accurate to 3 foot in the open and within ten ft under
> cover.
>
> The tracks I did were 12 13 and 15.5 miles; no glitches thusfar.
>
> Also used it for a few road trips and worked well.
>
> Sorry your unit has not worked as well... Any chance you had a lemon and
> could exchange it... Put in up to date firmware; and the. Start all over?
> Sent from my iPod
>
> On 2011-04-02, at 3:11 PM, Tortoise <Tortoise73 at charter.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> I contacted Garmin tech support. following their instructions I reloaded
>> system software, did a system reset, and purged specified files from
>> memory. I have fewer problems but still have had a lock up and a track
>> that
>> just won't delete. Contacted Garmin tech support again Thursday eve and
>> haven't heard back. Waiting for Garmin's response before deciding what to
>> do with the unit.
>>
>> Tortoise
>>
>> <> Because truth matters.<>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 03/22/11 22:09, Tortoise wrote:
>>> I received my new Garmin Dakota 20 from REI yesterday. Took it out with
>>> me today while trying to figure out what buttons to touch to get what I
>>> want, the unit froze up twice. Had to turn it off and restart. Just
>>> lost
>>> some menu items and had to reset it to "original settings". This unit
>>> seems to really use up the battery. I put new lithium AAs in it and
>>> after
>>> only ~3 hours of use the battery indicator indicates the cells are were
>>> 40% gone and then 60% gone. I still haven't decided if I like the
>>> structure of the menus or the ease of operating the unit.
>>> Tortoise
>>>
>>> <> Because truth matters.<>
>>>
>>> On 03/22/11 19:46, Devon Taig wrote:
>>>> I don't have much to compare it to, but the Etrex HTX is amazing at
>>>> keeping a fix in even the densest forest. Very accurate too. Integrates
>>>> well with all the computer software I've seen too.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my Windows Phone From: Halfmile
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 6:13 PM
>>>> To:bighummel at aol.com
>>>> Cc:pct-l at backcountry.net
>>>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Handheld GPS Recommendations
>>>> Greg,
>>>> If it's work related I would look at a Garmin GPSMap62s. The smaller
>>>> lighter Garmin Dakota 20 or Etrex Vista HCx would be my
>>>> recommendations for most hikers. The Garmin Foretrex 401 at 2.3 ounces
>>>> (with lithium batteries, but the wrist strap removed) would be a good
>>>> choice for ultra lighters who don't mind working with UTM grids on
>>>> paper maps.
>>>> -Halfmile
>>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 13:18:21 -0700
> From: Andrea Dinsmore <andrea at dinsmoreshikerhaven.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Washington weather and your Timing
> To: PCT-L <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTim1JehU5fnZ-Odrj-QdSCCT40KKgYJBasPagqYe at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I posted this before but feel it needs brought to the thru hiker's
> attention
> again. You are getting close to the start of a long hike. A day here or
> there that you take as a ZERO....be careful. The ZEROs add up and may
> screw
> your timing by the time you hit the North Cascades fall and winter
> weather.
>
>
> *As you are heading up the trail, you should try and schedule your travels
> so
> you can pass through the North Cascades close to the first week in
> September. That will guarantee you making it to the border before the
> winter
> mess hits. You would have a better chance to beat most of the cold rain
> and
> fog in the mts that hit a couple weeks before the snow.
>
> That's the biggest mistake I see hikers make. The partying is fun but
> every
> day you hang out doing un-needed zeros ....you'll end up paying for it
> with
> rain, fog and snow when you hit here. If we have an early deep snow up
> here.....your hike may be terminated at Snoqualmie or Steven's Pass. The
> hikers have been cut off as early as September 25th.......both at
> Snoqualmie
> and Steven's Pass. You can't posthole very long when the snow is up to
> your
> waist. And by the way.....where'd the trail go??
>
> It's sad to watch you guys work your tails off for 2450 miles only to be
> cut
> off by the weather when you get here. It's only 180 miles from Steven's to
> the Monument. Don't screw it up.
>
> Take care,
>
> Andrea
> PCT MOM*
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 13:19:28 -0700
> From: "Donna Saufley" <dsaufley at sprynet.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
> To: "'Bob Bankhead'" <wandering_bob at comcast.net>,
> <pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <001601cbf173$453d2800$cfb77800$@com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> The rationale stated on their site:
>
> "Consumer products, which include everything from nail polish to floor
> wax,
> emit more than 110 tons per day of smog-forming volatile organic compounds
> (VOCs) in the Southland. Consumer products are the largest source of VOCs
> in
> the region, eclipsing cars, trucks or industry.
>
> "This rule, a first in the nation, is going to significantly benefit all
> of
> us who live and breathe in the greater Los Angeles Basin," said AQMD
> Governing Board Chairman William A. Burke, Ed.D. "In less than two years,
> the rule will have reduced VOC pollution by up to 9.75 tons per day. That
> is
> the equal to shutting down all seven major oil refineries in Los Angeles
> County!" "
>
> I don't know enough about the science or concrete evidence behind their
> statement, but it does seem clear that we humans are polluting our
> beautiful
> planet, and that we can all make choices in our lives to make less of an
> impact.
>
> It's just what the choices are that is unclear right now . . . without
> Heet
> and denatured, hikers may need alternative fuel for a big chunk of trail
> in
> SoCal.
>
> LR
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Bankhead [mailto:wandering_bob at comcast.net]
> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:55 PM
> To: 'Donna Saufley'; pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
> Subject: RE: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>
> Yet another example of poor judgment by California officials. Your tax
> dollars at work.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
> On Behalf Of Donna Saufley
> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:48 PM
> To: pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
> Subject: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>
> This morning we stopped by our local hardware store. The owner Trish, who
> has done countless kindnesses for hikers including donating denatured
> alcohol, gave us her last three cans and told us she will not be able to
> order any more. She said South Coast Air Quality Management District Rule
> 1143 is the reason; it bans numerous paint solvents within their district
> boundaries www.aqmd.gov/news1/2009/Rule1143PR.html
>
>
>
> According to their map, www.aqmd.gov/map/mapaqmd1.pdf the PCT goes through
> SCAQMD boundardies from San Bernardino to where the trail meets the Mojave
> floor at Hwy 138. "Rule 1143 - Reduction of VOC Emissions from Consumer
> Paint Thinners and Multi-Purpose Solvents establishes an interim VOC limit
> of 300 grams/liter (g/l,) effective January 1, 2010, and a VOC limit of 25
> g/l effective January 1, 2011, for all consumer paint thinners and
> multi-purpose solvents."
>
>
>
> The denatured alcohol we've been using (the cans Trish just donated) is
> VOC:
> 815 g/L, obviously way in excess of the new limit within the district.
> Can
> anyone verify the VOC of Heet? Or know if the new lower VOC products will
> work in stoves?
>
>
>
> It sounds like SCAQMD is acting as environmental leaders with this rule,
> and
> I have not heard that denatured and other solvents will be banned in other
> areas. Imagining enforcement on the PCT is difficult. However, hikers
> may
> not be able to buy denatured at resupply locations within the district,
> and
> other regions may be considering similar bans.
>
>
>
> L-Rod
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 16:31:01 -0400
> From: Paul Robison <paulrobisonhome at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
> To: Donna Saufley <dsaufley at sprynet.com>
> Cc: "<pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net>" <pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net>,
> Bob Bankhead <wandering_bob at comcast.net>
> Message-ID: <9D14F60F-BD76-4CB9-A03B-70E397F81349 at yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Survey type Question,
>
> If, in time HEET became unavailable... Would you be more likely to use a
> canister, or would you try stoveless?
>
> Sent from my iPod
>
> On 2011-04-02, at 4:19 PM, "Donna Saufley" <dsaufley at sprynet.com> wrote:
>
>> The rationale stated on their site:
>>
>> "Consumer products, which include everything from nail polish to floor
>> wax,
>> emit more than 110 tons per day of smog-forming volatile organic
>> compounds
>> (VOCs) in the Southland. Consumer products are the largest source of VOCs
>> in
>> the region, eclipsing cars, trucks or industry.
>>
>> "This rule, a first in the nation, is going to significantly benefit all
>> of
>> us who live and breathe in the greater Los Angeles Basin," said AQMD
>> Governing Board Chairman William A. Burke, Ed.D. "In less than two years,
>> the rule will have reduced VOC pollution by up to 9.75 tons per day. That
>> is
>> the equal to shutting down all seven major oil refineries in Los Angeles
>> County!" "
>>
>> I don't know enough about the science or concrete evidence behind their
>> statement, but it does seem clear that we humans are polluting our
>> beautiful
>> planet, and that we can all make choices in our lives to make less of an
>> impact.
>>
>> It's just what the choices are that is unclear right now . . . without
>> Heet
>> and denatured, hikers may need alternative fuel for a big chunk of trail
>> in
>> SoCal.
>>
>> LR
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bob Bankhead [mailto:wandering_bob at comcast.net]
>> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:55 PM
>> To: 'Donna Saufley'; pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
>> Subject: RE: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>>
>> Yet another example of poor judgment by California officials. Your tax
>> dollars at work.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net
>> [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
>> On Behalf Of Donna Saufley
>> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:48 PM
>> To: pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
>> Subject: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>>
>> This morning we stopped by our local hardware store. The owner Trish,
>> who
>> has done countless kindnesses for hikers including donating denatured
>> alcohol, gave us her last three cans and told us she will not be able to
>> order any more. She said South Coast Air Quality Management District
>> Rule
>> 1143 is the reason; it bans numerous paint solvents within their
>> district
>> boundaries www.aqmd.gov/news1/2009/Rule1143PR.html
>>
>>
>>
>> According to their map, www.aqmd.gov/map/mapaqmd1.pdf the PCT goes
>> through
>> SCAQMD boundardies from San Bernardino to where the trail meets the
>> Mojave
>> floor at Hwy 138. "Rule 1143 - Reduction of VOC Emissions from Consumer
>> Paint Thinners and Multi-Purpose Solvents establishes an interim VOC
>> limit
>> of 300 grams/liter (g/l,) effective January 1, 2010, and a VOC limit of
>> 25
>> g/l effective January 1, 2011, for all consumer paint thinners and
>> multi-purpose solvents."
>>
>>
>>
>> The denatured alcohol we've been using (the cans Trish just donated) is
>> VOC:
>> 815 g/L, obviously way in excess of the new limit within the district.
>> Can
>> anyone verify the VOC of Heet? Or know if the new lower VOC products
>> will
>> work in stoves?
>>
>>
>>
>> It sounds like SCAQMD is acting as environmental leaders with this rule,
>> and
>> I have not heard that denatured and other solvents will be banned in
>> other
>> areas. Imagining enforcement on the PCT is difficult. However, hikers
>> may
>> not be able to buy denatured at resupply locations within the district,
>> and
>> other regions may be considering similar bans.
>>
>>
>>
>> L-Rod
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 15:30:01 -0500
> From: Brandon McGinnity <bmcginnity at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
> To: Paul Robison <paulrobisonhome at yahoo.com>, pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTikAkJy9pXSuhaEbb9vmPT_Eud5D9=i9fv7rZUpc at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I'd go with wood. Already plan to hike with my lightweight homemade hobo
> stove, to save on how much fuel I gotta carry. I agree with the
> environmental side of the new rules, though the inconvenience is sure to
> be
> felt along the Trail. But I wouldn't prefer switch to a fossil fuel
> *and*throw-away cannisters.
>
> On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 3:31 PM, Paul Robison
> <paulrobisonhome at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>> Survey type Question,
>>
>> If, in time HEET became unavailable... Would you be more likely to use a
>> canister, or would you try stoveless?
>>
>> Sent from my iPod
>>
>> On 2011-04-02, at 4:19 PM, "Donna Saufley" <dsaufley at sprynet.com> wrote:
>>
>> > The rationale stated on their site:
>> >
>> > "Consumer products, which include everything from nail polish to floor
>> wax,
>> > emit more than 110 tons per day of smog-forming volatile organic
>> compounds
>> > (VOCs) in the Southland. Consumer products are the largest source of
>> > VOCs
>> in
>> > the region, eclipsing cars, trucks or industry.
>> >
>> > "This rule, a first in the nation, is going to significantly benefit
>> > all
>> of
>> > us who live and breathe in the greater Los Angeles Basin," said AQMD
>> > Governing Board Chairman William A. Burke, Ed.D. "In less than two
>> > years,
>> > the rule will have reduced VOC pollution by up to 9.75 tons per day.
>> > That
>> is
>> > the equal to shutting down all seven major oil refineries in Los
>> > Angeles
>> > County!" "
>> >
>> > I don't know enough about the science or concrete evidence behind their
>> > statement, but it does seem clear that we humans are polluting our
>> beautiful
>> > planet, and that we can all make choices in our lives to make less of
>> > an
>> > impact.
>> >
>> > It's just what the choices are that is unclear right now . . . without
>> Heet
>> > and denatured, hikers may need alternative fuel for a big chunk of
>> > trail
>> in
>> > SoCal.
>> >
>> > LR
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Bob Bankhead [mailto:wandering_bob at comcast.net]
>> > Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:55 PM
>> > To: 'Donna Saufley'; pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
>> > Subject: RE: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>> >
>> > Yet another example of poor judgment by California officials. Your tax
>> > dollars at work.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:
>> pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
>> > On Behalf Of Donna Saufley
>> > Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:48 PM
>> > To: pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
>> > Subject: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>> >
>> > This morning we stopped by our local hardware store. The owner Trish,
>> who
>> > has done countless kindnesses for hikers including donating denatured
>> > alcohol, gave us her last three cans and told us she will not be able
>> > to
>> > order any more. She said South Coast Air Quality Management District
>> Rule
>> > 1143 is the reason; it bans numerous paint solvents within their
>> district
>> > boundaries www.aqmd.gov/news1/2009/Rule1143PR.html
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > According to their map, www.aqmd.gov/map/mapaqmd1.pdf the PCT goes
>> through
>> > SCAQMD boundardies from San Bernardino to where the trail meets the
>> Mojave
>> > floor at Hwy 138. "Rule 1143 - Reduction of VOC Emissions from
>> > Consumer
>> > Paint Thinners and Multi-Purpose Solvents establishes an interim VOC
>> limit
>> > of 300 grams/liter (g/l,) effective January 1, 2010, and a VOC limit of
>> 25
>> > g/l effective January 1, 2011, for all consumer paint thinners and
>> > multi-purpose solvents."
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > The denatured alcohol we've been using (the cans Trish just donated) is
>> VOC:
>> > 815 g/L, obviously way in excess of the new limit within the district.
>> Can
>> > anyone verify the VOC of Heet? Or know if the new lower VOC products
>> will
>> > work in stoves?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > It sounds like SCAQMD is acting as environmental leaders with this
>> > rule,
>> and
>> > I have not heard that denatured and other solvents will be banned in
>> other
>> > areas. Imagining enforcement on the PCT is difficult. However, hikers
>> may
>> > not be able to buy denatured at resupply locations within the district,
>> and
>> > other regions may be considering similar bans.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > L-Rod
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Pct-L mailing list
>> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> >
>> > List Archives:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ~ Moccasin
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 13:32:01 -0700
> From: eckert <jape1 at cox.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] Jumping Cholla!
> To: PCT <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <4D9787C1.9070205 at cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Don't worry, they'll find you. That's why they're called "jumping".
>
> On 4/2/2011 11:46 AM, Brandon McGinnity wrote:
>> Oh. my. god. that dude on the golf course must have been in unbelievable
>> pain. 3 HOURS to pull them out. Lord. I thought kicking a prickly pear
>> when
>> wearing flip flops was bad, but oh man. Where are these things on the
>> PCT?
>> I'm going to have to be on high alert for that...
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 12:43 PM, Rod Belshee<rbelshee at hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Caution is in order. In 2004, one unfortunate hiker got a spine in his
>>> knee. It became infected and he was off the trail for a couple of weeks
>>> for
>>> his doctor to clean it out. When he returned to resume hike, his knee
>>> swelled radically. Hike over. Yuk.
>>>
>>> Steady Sr
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pct-L mailing list
>>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>>> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>>
>>> List Archives:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 20:32:03 +0000
> From: mikepinkus at hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
> To: "Donna Saufley" <dsaufley at sprynet.com>,
> pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net, "'Bob Bankhead'"
> <wandering_bob at comcast.net>, pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <1015719126-1301776322-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1364699386- at bda243.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> Hi Donna,
> I'm a Canadian doing the trail this year. From roughly what mile to what
> mile will this be in effect? I planned on using an alchohol stove for the
> whole PCT. Looks like I might have to go with a cannister now though.
>
> Cheers,
> Mike
> Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Donna Saufley" <dsaufley at sprynet.com>
> Sender: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 13:19:28
> To: 'Bob Bankhead'<wandering_bob at comcast.net>;
> <pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>
> The rationale stated on their site:
>
> "Consumer products, which include everything from nail polish to floor
> wax,
> emit more than 110 tons per day of smog-forming volatile organic compounds
> (VOCs) in the Southland. Consumer products are the largest source of VOCs
> in
> the region, eclipsing cars, trucks or industry.
>
> "This rule, a first in the nation, is going to significantly benefit all
> of
> us who live and breathe in the greater Los Angeles Basin," said AQMD
> Governing Board Chairman William A. Burke, Ed.D. "In less than two years,
> the rule will have reduced VOC pollution by up to 9.75 tons per day. That
> is
> the equal to shutting down all seven major oil refineries in Los Angeles
> County!" "
>
> I don't know enough about the science or concrete evidence behind their
> statement, but it does seem clear that we humans are polluting our
> beautiful
> planet, and that we can all make choices in our lives to make less of an
> impact.
>
> It's just what the choices are that is unclear right now . . . without
> Heet
> and denatured, hikers may need alternative fuel for a big chunk of trail
> in
> SoCal.
>
> LR
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Bankhead [mailto:wandering_bob at comcast.net]
> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:55 PM
> To: 'Donna Saufley'; pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
> Subject: RE: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>
> Yet another example of poor judgment by California officials. Your tax
> dollars at work.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
> On Behalf Of Donna Saufley
> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:48 PM
> To: pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
> Subject: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>
> This morning we stopped by our local hardware store. The owner Trish, who
> has done countless kindnesses for hikers including donating denatured
> alcohol, gave us her last three cans and told us she will not be able to
> order any more. She said South Coast Air Quality Management District Rule
> 1143 is the reason; it bans numerous paint solvents within their district
> boundaries www.aqmd.gov/news1/2009/Rule1143PR.html
>
>
>
> According to their map, www.aqmd.gov/map/mapaqmd1.pdf the PCT goes through
> SCAQMD boundardies from San Bernardino to where the trail meets the Mojave
> floor at Hwy 138. "Rule 1143 - Reduction of VOC Emissions from Consumer
> Paint Thinners and Multi-Purpose Solvents establishes an interim VOC limit
> of 300 grams/liter (g/l,) effective January 1, 2010, and a VOC limit of 25
> g/l effective January 1, 2011, for all consumer paint thinners and
> multi-purpose solvents."
>
>
>
> The denatured alcohol we've been using (the cans Trish just donated) is
> VOC:
> 815 g/L, obviously way in excess of the new limit within the district.
> Can
> anyone verify the VOC of Heet? Or know if the new lower VOC products will
> work in stoves?
>
>
>
> It sounds like SCAQMD is acting as environmental leaders with this rule,
> and
> I have not heard that denatured and other solvents will be banned in other
> areas. Imagining enforcement on the PCT is difficult. However, hikers
> may
> not be able to buy denatured at resupply locations within the district,
> and
> other regions may be considering similar bans.
>
>
>
> L-Rod
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 15:33:24 -0500
> From: Brandon McGinnity <bmcginnity at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Washington weather and your Timing
> To: Andrea Dinsmore <andrea at dinsmoreshikerhaven.com>,
> pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTikx5nOfV2eu7pOyK4J3xOo_Qu5RR_L172FrP9Z0 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Good advice. It's very well put. I had a friend on the AT last year, but
> he
> had to quit half way because he ran out of money, from all the excessive
> partying. Same sort of issue, really. The fun is always great, but
> remember
> why you're out there, and weight the one against the other. I fall firmly
> in
> the side that wants to finish, though I plan to have a good time along the
> way. I find the hiking fun anyways, the good times in camp with a few
> folks,
> and all that. Balance, this is the key.
>
> On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Andrea Dinsmore <
> andrea at dinsmoreshikerhaven.com> wrote:
>
>> I posted this before but feel it needs brought to the thru hiker's
>> attention
>> again. You are getting close to the start of a long hike. A day here or
>> there that you take as a ZERO....be careful. The ZEROs add up and may
>> screw
>> your timing by the time you hit the North Cascades fall and winter
>> weather.
>>
>>
>> *As you are heading up the trail, you should try and schedule your
>> travels
>> so
>> you can pass through the North Cascades close to the first week in
>> September. That will guarantee you making it to the border before the
>> winter
>> mess hits. You would have a better chance to beat most of the cold rain
>> and
>> fog in the mts that hit a couple weeks before the snow.
>>
>> That's the biggest mistake I see hikers make. The partying is fun but
>> every
>> day you hang out doing un-needed zeros ....you'll end up paying for it
>> with
>> rain, fog and snow when you hit here. If we have an early deep snow up
>> here.....your hike may be terminated at Snoqualmie or Steven's Pass. The
>> hikers have been cut off as early as September 25th.......both at
>> Snoqualmie
>> and Steven's Pass. You can't posthole very long when the snow is up to
>> your
>> waist. And by the way.....where'd the trail go??
>>
>> It's sad to watch you guys work your tails off for 2450 miles only to be
>> cut
>> off by the weather when you get here. It's only 180 miles from Steven's
>> to
>> the Monument. Don't screw it up.
>>
>> Take care,
>>
>> Andrea
>> PCT MOM*
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ~ Moccasin
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 13:38:02 -0700
> From: Ate Tuna <atetuna at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
> To: Paul Robison <paulrobisonhome at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "<pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net>" <pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net>,
> Bob Bankhead <wandering_bob at comcast.net>
> Message-ID: <BANLkTi=fOOqw=CPewbXV-Q3Fy8j-YiEu3w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> That's easy. I'm already stoveless.
>
> On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 1:31 PM, Paul Robison
> <paulrobisonhome at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>> Survey type Question,
>>
>> If, in time HEET became unavailable... Would you be more likely to use a
>> canister, or would you try stoveless?
>>
>> Sent from my iPod
>>
>> On 2011-04-02, at 4:19 PM, "Donna Saufley" <dsaufley at sprynet.com> wrote:
>>
>> > The rationale stated on their site:
>> >
>> > "Consumer products, which include everything from nail polish to floor
>> wax,
>> > emit more than 110 tons per day of smog-forming volatile organic
>> compounds
>> > (VOCs) in the Southland. Consumer products are the largest source of
>> > VOCs
>> in
>> > the region, eclipsing cars, trucks or industry.
>> >
>> > "This rule, a first in the nation, is going to significantly benefit
>> > all
>> of
>> > us who live and breathe in the greater Los Angeles Basin," said AQMD
>> > Governing Board Chairman William A. Burke, Ed.D. "In less than two
>> > years,
>> > the rule will have reduced VOC pollution by up to 9.75 tons per day.
>> > That
>> is
>> > the equal to shutting down all seven major oil refineries in Los
>> > Angeles
>> > County!" "
>> >
>> > I don't know enough about the science or concrete evidence behind their
>> > statement, but it does seem clear that we humans are polluting our
>> beautiful
>> > planet, and that we can all make choices in our lives to make less of
>> > an
>> > impact.
>> >
>> > It's just what the choices are that is unclear right now . . . without
>> Heet
>> > and denatured, hikers may need alternative fuel for a big chunk of
>> > trail
>> in
>> > SoCal.
>> >
>> > LR
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Bob Bankhead [mailto:wandering_bob at comcast.net]
>> > Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:55 PM
>> > To: 'Donna Saufley'; pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
>> > Subject: RE: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>> >
>> > Yet another example of poor judgment by California officials. Your tax
>> > dollars at work.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:
>> pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
>> > On Behalf Of Donna Saufley
>> > Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:48 PM
>> > To: pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
>> > Subject: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>> >
>> > This morning we stopped by our local hardware store. The owner Trish,
>> who
>> > has done countless kindnesses for hikers including donating denatured
>> > alcohol, gave us her last three cans and told us she will not be able
>> > to
>> > order any more. She said South Coast Air Quality Management District
>> Rule
>> > 1143 is the reason; it bans numerous paint solvents within their
>> district
>> > boundaries www.aqmd.gov/news1/2009/Rule1143PR.html
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > According to their map, www.aqmd.gov/map/mapaqmd1.pdf the PCT goes
>> through
>> > SCAQMD boundardies from San Bernardino to where the trail meets the
>> Mojave
>> > floor at Hwy 138. "Rule 1143 - Reduction of VOC Emissions from
>> > Consumer
>> > Paint Thinners and Multi-Purpose Solvents establishes an interim VOC
>> limit
>> > of 300 grams/liter (g/l,) effective January 1, 2010, and a VOC limit of
>> 25
>> > g/l effective January 1, 2011, for all consumer paint thinners and
>> > multi-purpose solvents."
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > The denatured alcohol we've been using (the cans Trish just donated) is
>> VOC:
>> > 815 g/L, obviously way in excess of the new limit within the district.
>> Can
>> > anyone verify the VOC of Heet? Or know if the new lower VOC products
>> will
>> > work in stoves?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > It sounds like SCAQMD is acting as environmental leaders with this
>> > rule,
>> and
>> > I have not heard that denatured and other solvents will be banned in
>> other
>> > areas. Imagining enforcement on the PCT is difficult. However, hikers
>> may
>> > not be able to buy denatured at resupply locations within the district,
>> and
>> > other regions may be considering similar bans.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > L-Rod
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Pct-L mailing list
>> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> >
>> > List Archives:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 13:40:55 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Paul Robison <paulrobisonhome at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
> To: Ate Tuna <atetuna at gmail.com>
> Cc: pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <342870.79748.qm at web110208.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> i'm stoveless campo to Cabazon, and from mile 702 to ~1200.
>
> so basically just right around banning do i have to be concerned.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Ate Tuna <atetuna at gmail.com>
> To: Paul Robison <paulrobisonhome at yahoo.com>
> Cc: Donna Saufley <dsaufley at sprynet.com>;
> "<pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net>"
> <pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net>; Bob Bankhead <wandering_bob at comcast.net>
> Sent: Sat, April 2, 2011 4:38:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>
> That's easy. I'm already stoveless.
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 1:31 PM, Paul Robison <paulrobisonhome at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> Survey type Question,
>>
>>If, in time HEET became unavailable... Would you be more likely to use a
>>canister, or would you try stoveless?
>>
>>Sent from my iPod
>>
>>
>>On 2011-04-02, at 4:19 PM, "Donna Saufley" <dsaufley at sprynet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The rationale stated on their site:
>>>
>>> "Consumer products, which include everything from nail polish to floor
>>> wax,
>>> emit more than 110 tons per day of smog-forming volatile organic
>>> compounds
>>> (VOCs) in the Southland. Consumer products are the largest source of
>>> VOCs in
>>> the region, eclipsing cars, trucks or industry.
>>>
>>> "This rule, a first in the nation, is going to significantly benefit all
>>> of
>>> us who live and breathe in the greater Los Angeles Basin," said AQMD
>>> Governing Board Chairman William A. Burke, Ed.D. "In less than two
>>> years,
>>> the rule will have reduced VOC pollution by up to 9.75 tons per day.
>>> That is
>>> the equal to shutting down all seven major oil refineries in Los Angeles
>>> County!" "
>>>
>>> I don't know enough about the science or concrete evidence behind their
>>> statement, but it does seem clear that we humans are polluting our
>>> beautiful
>>> planet, and that we can all make choices in our lives to make less of an
>>> impact.
>>>
>>> It's just what the choices are that is unclear right now . . . without
>>> Heet
>>> and denatured, hikers may need alternative fuel for a big chunk of trail
>>> in
>>> SoCal.
>>>
>>> LR
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Bob Bankhead [mailto:wandering_bob at comcast.net]
>>> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:55 PM
>>> To: 'Donna Saufley'; pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
>>> Subject: RE: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>>>
>>> Yet another example of poor judgment by California officials. Your tax
>>> dollars at work.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net
>>> [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
>>> On Behalf Of Donna Saufley
>>> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:48 PM
>>> To: pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
>>> Subject: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>>>
>>> This morning we stopped by our local hardware store. The owner Trish,
>>> who
>>> has done countless kindnesses for hikers including donating denatured
>>> alcohol, gave us her last three cans and told us she will not be able to
>>> order any more. She said South Coast Air Quality Management District
>>> Rule
>>> 1143 is the reason; it bans numerous paint solvents within their
>>> district
>>> boundaries www.aqmd.gov/news1/2009/Rule1143PR.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> According to their map, www.aqmd.gov/map/mapaqmd1.pdf the PCT goes
>>> through
>>> SCAQMD boundardies from San Bernardino to where the trail meets the
>>> Mojave
>>> floor at Hwy 138. "Rule 1143 - Reduction of VOC Emissions from Consumer
>>> Paint Thinners and Multi-Purpose Solvents establishes an interim VOC
>>> limit
>>> of 300 grams/liter (g/l,) effective January 1, 2010, and a VOC limit of
>>> 25
>>> g/l effective January 1, 2011, for all consumer paint thinners and
>>> multi-purpose solvents."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The denatured alcohol we've been using (the cans Trish just donated) is
>>> VOC:
>>> 815 g/L, obviously way in excess of the new limit within the district.
>>> Can
>>> anyone verify the VOC of Heet? Or know if the new lower VOC products
>>> will
>>> work in stoves?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It sounds like SCAQMD is acting as environmental leaders with this rule,
>>> and
>>> I have not heard that denatured and other solvents will be banned in
>>> other
>>> areas. Imagining enforcement on the PCT is difficult. However, hikers
>>> may
>>> not be able to buy denatured at resupply locations within the district,
>>> and
>>> other regions may be considering similar bans.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> L-Rod
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pct-L mailing list
>>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>>> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>>
>>> List Archives:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>_______________________________________________
>>Pct-L mailing list
>>Pct-L at backcountry.net
>>To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>>http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>>List Archives:
>>http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 20:42:46 +0000
> From: mikepinkus at hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
> To: "Paul Robison" <paulrobisonhome at yahoo.com>,
> pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net, "Donna Saufley" <dsaufley at sprynet.com>
> Cc: "<pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net>" <pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net>,
> Bob Bankhead <wandering_bob at comcast.net>
> Message-ID:
> <296947726-1301776965-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1580053786- at bda243.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> Canister for sure. Probably a Snow Peak Giga.
>
> Cheers,
> Mike
> Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Robison <paulrobisonhome at yahoo.com>
> Sender: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 16:31:01
> To: Donna Saufley<dsaufley at sprynet.com>
> Cc: <pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net><pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net>; Bob
> Bankhead<wandering_bob at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>
> Survey type Question,
>
> If, in time HEET became unavailable... Would you be more likely to use a
> canister, or would you try stoveless?
>
> Sent from my iPod
>
> On 2011-04-02, at 4:19 PM, "Donna Saufley" <dsaufley at sprynet.com> wrote:
>
>> The rationale stated on their site:
>>
>> "Consumer products, which include everything from nail polish to floor
>> wax,
>> emit more than 110 tons per day of smog-forming volatile organic
>> compounds
>> (VOCs) in the Southland. Consumer products are the largest source of VOCs
>> in
>> the region, eclipsing cars, trucks or industry.
>>
>> "This rule, a first in the nation, is going to significantly benefit all
>> of
>> us who live and breathe in the greater Los Angeles Basin," said AQMD
>> Governing Board Chairman William A. Burke, Ed.D. "In less than two years,
>> the rule will have reduced VOC pollution by up to 9.75 tons per day. That
>> is
>> the equal to shutting down all seven major oil refineries in Los Angeles
>> County!" "
>>
>> I don't know enough about the science or concrete evidence behind their
>> statement, but it does seem clear that we humans are polluting our
>> beautiful
>> planet, and that we can all make choices in our lives to make less of an
>> impact.
>>
>> It's just what the choices are that is unclear right now . . . without
>> Heet
>> and denatured, hikers may need alternative fuel for a big chunk of trail
>> in
>> SoCal.
>>
>> LR
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bob Bankhead [mailto:wandering_bob at comcast.net]
>> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:55 PM
>> To: 'Donna Saufley'; pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
>> Subject: RE: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>>
>> Yet another example of poor judgment by California officials. Your tax
>> dollars at work.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net
>> [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
>> On Behalf Of Donna Saufley
>> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:48 PM
>> To: pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
>> Subject: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>>
>> This morning we stopped by our local hardware store. The owner Trish,
>> who
>> has done countless kindnesses for hikers including donating denatured
>> alcohol, gave us her last three cans and told us she will not be able to
>> order any more. She said South Coast Air Quality Management District
>> Rule
>> 1143 is the reason; it bans numerous paint solvents within their
>> district
>> boundaries www.aqmd.gov/news1/2009/Rule1143PR.html
>>
>>
>>
>> According to their map, www.aqmd.gov/map/mapaqmd1.pdf the PCT goes
>> through
>> SCAQMD boundardies from San Bernardino to where the trail meets the
>> Mojave
>> floor at Hwy 138. "Rule 1143 - Reduction of VOC Emissions from Consumer
>> Paint Thinners and Multi-Purpose Solvents establishes an interim VOC
>> limit
>> of 300 grams/liter (g/l,) effective January 1, 2010, and a VOC limit of
>> 25
>> g/l effective January 1, 2011, for all consumer paint thinners and
>> multi-purpose solvents."
>>
>>
>>
>> The denatured alcohol we've been using (the cans Trish just donated) is
>> VOC:
>> 815 g/L, obviously way in excess of the new limit within the district.
>> Can
>> anyone verify the VOC of Heet? Or know if the new lower VOC products
>> will
>> work in stoves?
>>
>>
>>
>> It sounds like SCAQMD is acting as environmental leaders with this rule,
>> and
>> I have not heard that denatured and other solvents will be banned in
>> other
>> areas. Imagining enforcement on the PCT is difficult. However, hikers
>> may
>> not be able to buy denatured at resupply locations within the district,
>> and
>> other regions may be considering similar bans.
>>
>>
>>
>> L-Rod
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 15:50:08 -0500
> From: Brandon McGinnity <bmcginnity at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Fwd: Jumping Cholla!
> To: Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com>, pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTimK1QbCh4wOb1TGzVXE_ke1tS=3t-2nCfK_dngY at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Thanks, I'll definitely be looking. What a miserable little plant. I mean,
> what, the spines aren't enough? What the hell has been eating that for the
> last million years that it had to evolve such horrors?
>
> On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 2:02 PM, Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> You should start seeing different types of cholla from your first day on.
>> Just watch for when the little branches have fallen or blown into the
>> trail.
>>
>> Shroomer
>> On Apr 2, 2011 11:46 AM, "Brandon McGinnity" <bmcginnity at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Oh. my. god. that dude on the golf course must have been in
>> > unbelievable
>> > pain. 3 HOURS to pull them out. Lord. I thought kicking a prickly pear
>> when
>> > wearing flip flops was bad, but oh man. Where are these things on the
>> PCT?
>> > I'm going to have to be on high alert for that...
>> >
>> > On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 12:43 PM, Rod Belshee <rbelshee at hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Caution is in order. In 2004, one unfortunate hiker got a spine in his
>> >> knee. It became infected and he was off the trail for a couple of
>> >> weeks
>> >> for
>> >> his doctor to clean it out. When he returned to resume hike, his knee
>> >> swelled radically. Hike over. Yuk.
>> >>
>> >> Steady Sr
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Pct-L mailing list
>> >> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> >> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> >> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> >>
>> >> List Archives:
>> >> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > ~ Moccasin
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Pct-L mailing list
>> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> >
>> > List Archives:
>> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ~ Moccasin
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 21:02:03 +0000
> From: mikepinkus at hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
> To: "Paul Robison" <paulrobisonhome at yahoo.com>,
> pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net, "Ate Tuna" <atetuna at gmail.com>
> Cc: pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <461324643-1301778122-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-105821106- at bda243.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> This now begs the question: how availiable are canisters on the trail? I'm
> looking at doing two , 3 cup burns a day...
>
> Cheers,
> Mike
> Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Robison <paulrobisonhome at yahoo.com>
> Sender: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 13:40:55
> To: Ate Tuna<atetuna at gmail.com>
> Cc: <pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>
> i'm stoveless campo to Cabazon, and from mile 702 to ~1200.
>
> so basically just right around banning do i have to be concerned.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Ate Tuna <atetuna at gmail.com>
> To: Paul Robison <paulrobisonhome at yahoo.com>
> Cc: Donna Saufley <dsaufley at sprynet.com>;
> "<pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net>"
> <pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net>; Bob Bankhead <wandering_bob at comcast.net>
> Sent: Sat, April 2, 2011 4:38:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>
> That's easy. I'm already stoveless.
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 1:31 PM, Paul Robison <paulrobisonhome at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> Survey type Question,
>>
>>If, in time HEET became unavailable... Would you be more likely to use a
>>canister, or would you try stoveless?
>>
>>Sent from my iPod
>>
>>
>>On 2011-04-02, at 4:19 PM, "Donna Saufley" <dsaufley at sprynet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The rationale stated on their site:
>>>
>>> "Consumer products, which include everything from nail polish to floor
>>> wax,
>>> emit more than 110 tons per day of smog-forming volatile organic
>>> compounds
>>> (VOCs) in the Southland. Consumer products are the largest source of
>>> VOCs in
>>> the region, eclipsing cars, trucks or industry.
>>>
>>> "This rule, a first in the nation, is going to significantly benefit all
>>> of
>>> us who live and breathe in the greater Los Angeles Basin," said AQMD
>>> Governing Board Chairman William A. Burke, Ed.D. "In less than two
>>> years,
>>> the rule will have reduced VOC pollution by up to 9.75 tons per day.
>>> That is
>>> the equal to shutting down all seven major oil refineries in Los Angeles
>>> County!" "
>>>
>>> I don't know enough about the science or concrete evidence behind their
>>> statement, but it does seem clear that we humans are polluting our
>>> beautiful
>>> planet, and that we can all make choices in our lives to make less of an
>>> impact.
>>>
>>> It's just what the choices are that is unclear right now . . . without
>>> Heet
>>> and denatured, hikers may need alternative fuel for a big chunk of trail
>>> in
>>> SoCal.
>>>
>>> LR
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Bob Bankhead [mailto:wandering_bob at comcast.net]
>>> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:55 PM
>>> To: 'Donna Saufley'; pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
>>> Subject: RE: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>>>
>>> Yet another example of poor judgment by California officials. Your tax
>>> dollars at work.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net
>>> [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
>>> On Behalf Of Donna Saufley
>>> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:48 PM
>>> To: pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
>>> Subject: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>>>
>>> This morning we stopped by our local hardware store. The owner Trish,
>>> who
>>> has done countless kindnesses for hikers including donating denatured
>>> alcohol, gave us her last three cans and told us she will not be able to
>>> order any more. She said South Coast Air Quality Management District
>>> Rule
>>> 1143 is the reason; it bans numerous paint solvents within their
>>> district
>>> boundaries www.aqmd.gov/news1/2009/Rule1143PR.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> According to their map, www.aqmd.gov/map/mapaqmd1.pdf the PCT goes
>>> through
>>> SCAQMD boundardies from San Bernardino to where the trail meets the
>>> Mojave
>>> floor at Hwy 138. "Rule 1143 - Reduction of VOC Emissions from Consumer
>>> Paint Thinners and Multi-Purpose Solvents establishes an interim VOC
>>> limit
>>> of 300 grams/liter (g/l,) effective January 1, 2010, and a VOC limit of
>>> 25
>>> g/l effective January 1, 2011, for all consumer paint thinners and
>>> multi-purpose solvents."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The denatured alcohol we've been using (the cans Trish just donated) is
>>> VOC:
>>> 815 g/L, obviously way in excess of the new limit within the district.
>>> Can
>>> anyone verify the VOC of Heet? Or know if the new lower VOC products
>>> will
>>> work in stoves?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It sounds like SCAQMD is acting as environmental leaders with this rule,
>>> and
>>> I have not heard that denatured and other solvents will be banned in
>>> other
>>> areas. Imagining enforcement on the PCT is difficult. However, hikers
>>> may
>>> not be able to buy denatured at resupply locations within the district,
>>> and
>>> other regions may be considering similar bans.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> L-Rod
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pct-L mailing list
>>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>>> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>>
>>> List Archives:
>>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>_______________________________________________
>>Pct-L mailing list
>>Pct-L at backcountry.net
>>To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>>http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>>List Archives:
>>http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 26
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 15:32:31 -0700
> From: <dnielsen at djmurphycompany.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
> To: "'Paul Robison'" <paulrobisonhome at yahoo.com>, "'Donna Saufley'"
> <dsaufley at sprynet.com>
> Cc: pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net, 'Bob Bankhead'
> <wandering_bob at comcast.net>
> Message-ID: <95CC3EF2B82B407AA61ACF7464D439B2 at DB2>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> Just FYI on canister fuel. I am testing my snow peak stove with an 8oz
> MSR
> canister and am up to 28 two cup rolling boils. Low altitude and pretty
> warm
> weather and water so probably best case. We will see how many I get.
>
> Dave
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
> On Behalf Of Paul Robison
> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 1:31 PM
> To: Donna Saufley
> Cc: <pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net>; Bob Bankhead
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>
> Survey type Question,
>
> If, in time HEET became unavailable... Would you be more likely to use a
> canister, or would you try stoveless?
>
> Sent from my iPod
>
> On 2011-04-02, at 4:19 PM, "Donna Saufley" <dsaufley at sprynet.com> wrote:
>
>> The rationale stated on their site:
>>
>> "Consumer products, which include everything from nail polish to floor
> wax,
>> emit more than 110 tons per day of smog-forming volatile organic
>> compounds
>> (VOCs) in the Southland. Consumer products are the largest source of VOCs
> in
>> the region, eclipsing cars, trucks or industry.
>>
>> "This rule, a first in the nation, is going to significantly benefit all
> of
>> us who live and breathe in the greater Los Angeles Basin," said AQMD
>> Governing Board Chairman William A. Burke, Ed.D. "In less than two years,
>> the rule will have reduced VOC pollution by up to 9.75 tons per day. That
> is
>> the equal to shutting down all seven major oil refineries in Los Angeles
>> County!" "
>>
>> I don't know enough about the science or concrete evidence behind their
>> statement, but it does seem clear that we humans are polluting our
> beautiful
>> planet, and that we can all make choices in our lives to make less of an
>> impact.
>>
>> It's just what the choices are that is unclear right now . . . without
> Heet
>> and denatured, hikers may need alternative fuel for a big chunk of trail
> in
>> SoCal.
>>
>> LR
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bob Bankhead [mailto:wandering_bob at comcast.net]
>> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:55 PM
>> To: 'Donna Saufley'; pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
>> Subject: RE: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>>
>> Yet another example of poor judgment by California officials. Your tax
>> dollars at work.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net
>> [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
>> On Behalf Of Donna Saufley
>> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:48 PM
>> To: pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
>> Subject: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>>
>> This morning we stopped by our local hardware store. The owner Trish,
>> who
>> has done countless kindnesses for hikers including donating denatured
>> alcohol, gave us her last three cans and told us she will not be able to
>> order any more. She said South Coast Air Quality Management District
>> Rule
>> 1143 is the reason; it bans numerous paint solvents within their
>> district
>> boundaries www.aqmd.gov/news1/2009/Rule1143PR.html
>>
>>
>>
>> According to their map, www.aqmd.gov/map/mapaqmd1.pdf the PCT goes
>> through
>> SCAQMD boundardies from San Bernardino to where the trail meets the
>> Mojave
>> floor at Hwy 138. "Rule 1143 - Reduction of VOC Emissions from Consumer
>> Paint Thinners and Multi-Purpose Solvents establishes an interim VOC
>> limit
>> of 300 grams/liter (g/l,) effective January 1, 2010, and a VOC limit of
>> 25
>> g/l effective January 1, 2011, for all consumer paint thinners and
>> multi-purpose solvents."
>>
>>
>>
>> The denatured alcohol we've been using (the cans Trish just donated) is
> VOC:
>> 815 g/L, obviously way in excess of the new limit within the district.
> Can
>> anyone verify the VOC of Heet? Or know if the new lower VOC products
>> will
>> work in stoves?
>>
>>
>>
>> It sounds like SCAQMD is acting as environmental leaders with this rule,
> and
>> I have not heard that denatured and other solvents will be banned in
>> other
>> areas. Imagining enforcement on the PCT is difficult. However, hikers
> may
>> not be able to buy denatured at resupply locations within the district,
> and
>> other regions may be considering similar bans.
>>
>>
>>
>> L-Rod
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 27
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 22:53:02 +0000
> From: mikepinkus at hotmail.com
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
> To: dnielsen at djmurphycompany.com, pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net,
> "'Paul Robison'" <paulrobisonhome at yahoo.com>, "'Donna Saufley'"
> <dsaufley at sprynet.com>
> Cc: pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net, 'Bob Bankhead'
> <wandering_bob at comcast.net>
> Message-ID:
> <1134530805-1301784781-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1496858052- at bda243.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> Dave,
> Thanks for that info! I was just sitting here trying to work that out.
>
> Cheers,
> Mike
> Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: <dnielsen at djmurphycompany.com>
> Sender: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 15:32:31
> To: 'Paul Robison'<paulrobisonhome at yahoo.com>; 'Donna
> Saufley'<dsaufley at sprynet.com>
> Cc: <pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net>; 'Bob
> Bankhead'<wandering_bob at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>
>
> Just FYI on canister fuel. I am testing my snow peak stove with an 8oz
> MSR
> canister and am up to 28 two cup rolling boils. Low altitude and pretty
> warm
> weather and water so probably best case. We will see how many I get.
>
> Dave
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
> On Behalf Of Paul Robison
> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 1:31 PM
> To: Donna Saufley
> Cc: <pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net>; Bob Bankhead
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>
> Survey type Question,
>
> If, in time HEET became unavailable... Would you be more likely to use a
> canister, or would you try stoveless?
>
> Sent from my iPod
>
> On 2011-04-02, at 4:19 PM, "Donna Saufley" <dsaufley at sprynet.com> wrote:
>
>> The rationale stated on their site:
>>
>> "Consumer products, which include everything from nail polish to floor
> wax,
>> emit more than 110 tons per day of smog-forming volatile organic
>> compounds
>> (VOCs) in the Southland. Consumer products are the largest source of VOCs
> in
>> the region, eclipsing cars, trucks or industry.
>>
>> "This rule, a first in the nation, is going to significantly benefit all
> of
>> us who live and breathe in the greater Los Angeles Basin," said AQMD
>> Governing Board Chairman William A. Burke, Ed.D. "In less than two years,
>> the rule will have reduced VOC pollution by up to 9.75 tons per day. That
> is
>> the equal to shutting down all seven major oil refineries in Los Angeles
>> County!" "
>>
>> I don't know enough about the science or concrete evidence behind their
>> statement, but it does seem clear that we humans are polluting our
> beautiful
>> planet, and that we can all make choices in our lives to make less of an
>> impact.
>>
>> It's just what the choices are that is unclear right now . . . without
> Heet
>> and denatured, hikers may need alternative fuel for a big chunk of trail
> in
>> SoCal.
>>
>> LR
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bob Bankhead [mailto:wandering_bob at comcast.net]
>> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:55 PM
>> To: 'Donna Saufley'; pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
>> Subject: RE: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>>
>> Yet another example of poor judgment by California officials. Your tax
>> dollars at work.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net
>> [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
>> On Behalf Of Donna Saufley
>> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:48 PM
>> To: pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
>> Subject: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>>
>> This morning we stopped by our local hardware store. The owner Trish,
>> who
>> has done countless kindnesses for hikers including donating denatured
>> alcohol, gave us her last three cans and told us she will not be able to
>> order any more. She said South Coast Air Quality Management District
>> Rule
>> 1143 is the reason; it bans numerous paint solvents within their
>> district
>> boundaries www.aqmd.gov/news1/2009/Rule1143PR.html
>>
>>
>>
>> According to their map, www.aqmd.gov/map/mapaqmd1.pdf the PCT goes
>> through
>> SCAQMD boundardies from San Bernardino to where the trail meets the
>> Mojave
>> floor at Hwy 138. "Rule 1143 - Reduction of VOC Emissions from Consumer
>> Paint Thinners and Multi-Purpose Solvents establishes an interim VOC
>> limit
>> of 300 grams/liter (g/l,) effective January 1, 2010, and a VOC limit of
>> 25
>> g/l effective January 1, 2011, for all consumer paint thinners and
>> multi-purpose solvents."
>>
>>
>>
>> The denatured alcohol we've been using (the cans Trish just donated) is
> VOC:
>> 815 g/L, obviously way in excess of the new limit within the district.
> Can
>> anyone verify the VOC of Heet? Or know if the new lower VOC products
>> will
>> work in stoves?
>>
>>
>>
>> It sounds like SCAQMD is acting as environmental leaders with this rule,
> and
>> I have not heard that denatured and other solvents will be banned in
>> other
>> areas. Imagining enforcement on the PCT is difficult. However, hikers
> may
>> not be able to buy denatured at resupply locations within the district,
> and
>> other regions may be considering similar bans.
>>
>>
>>
>> L-Rod
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 28
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 15:57:11 -0700
> From: Bill Burge <bill at burge.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
> Cc: "<pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net>" <pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <5512D38A-1251-4FA1-B021-63B03192A542 at burge.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> http://www.packserv.com/Content-Public/Products-By-Brand/Page.asp?iID=8
>
> These guys are providing a denatured alcohol that will pass the voc
> levels.
>
> I haven't been able to do good research on my phone, but automotive
> additives like HEET may not be covered by this based on their intended
> use.
>
> BillB
> Typoed on my iPhone...
>
> On Apr 2, 2011, at 1:42 PM, mikepinkus at hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> Canister for sure. Probably a Snow Peak Giga.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Mike
>> Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Paul Robison <paulrobisonhome at yahoo.com>
>> Sender: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net
>> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 16:31:01
>> To: Donna Saufley<dsaufley at sprynet.com>
>> Cc: <pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net><pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net>; Bob
>> Bankhead<wandering_bob at comcast.net>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>>
>> Survey type Question,
>>
>> If, in time HEET became unavailable... Would you be more likely to use a
>> canister, or would you try stoveless?
>>
>> Sent from my iPod
>>
>> On 2011-04-02, at 4:19 PM, "Donna Saufley" <dsaufley at sprynet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The rationale stated on their site:
>>>
>>> "Consumer products, which include everything from nail polish to floor
>>> wax,
>>> emit more than 110 tons per day of smog-forming volatile organic
>>> compounds
>>> (VOCs) in the Southland. Consumer products are the largest source of
>>> VOCs in
>>> the region, eclipsing cars, trucks or industry.
>>>
>>> "This rule, a first in the nation, is going to significantly benefit all
>>> of
>>> us who live and breathe in the greater Los Angeles Basin," said AQMD
>>> Governing Board Chairman William A. Burke, Ed.D. "In less than two
>>> years,
>>> the rule will have reduced VOC pollution by up to 9.75 tons per day.
>>> That is
>>> the equal to shutting down all seven major oil refineries in Los Angeles
>>> County!" "
>>>
>>> I don't know enough about the science or concrete evidence behind their
>>> statement, but it does seem clear that we humans are polluting our
>>> beautiful
>>> planet, and that we can all make choices in our lives to make less of an
>>> impact.
>>>
>>> It's just what the choices are that is unclear right now . . . without
>>> Heet
>>> and denatured, hikers may need alternative fuel for a big chunk of trail
>>> in
>>> SoCal.
>>>
>>> LR
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Bob Bankhead [mailto:wandering_bob at comcast.net]
>>> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:55 PM
>>> To: 'Donna Saufley'; pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
>>> Subject: RE: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>>>
>>> Yet another example of poor judgment by California officials. Your tax
>>> dollars at work.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net
>>> [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
>>> On Behalf Of Donna Saufley
>>> Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2011 12:48 PM
>>> To: pct-l at mailman.backcountry.net
>>> Subject: [pct-l] SCAQMD Rule 1143 & Denatured Alcohol Question
>>>
>>> This morning we stopped by our local hardware store. The owner Trish,
>>> who
>>> has done countless kindnesses for hikers including donating denatured
>>> alcohol, gave us her last three cans and told us she will not be able to
>>> order any more. She said South Coast Air Quality Management District
>>> Rule
>>> 1143 is the reason; it bans numerous paint solvents within their
>>> district
>>> boundaries www.aqmd.gov/news1/2009/Rule1143PR.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> According to their map, www.aqmd.gov/map/mapaqmd1.pdf the PCT goes
>>> through
>>> SCAQMD boundardies from San Bernardino to where the trail meets the
>>> Mojave
>>> floor at Hwy 138. "Rule 1143 - Reduction of VOC Emissions from Consumer
>>> Paint Thinners and Multi-Purpose Solvents establishes an interim VOC
>>> limit
>>> of 300 grams/liter (g/l,) effective January 1, 2010, and a VOC limit of
>>> 25
>>> g/l effective January 1, 2011, for all consumer paint thinners and
>>> multi-purpose solvents."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The denatured alcohol we've been using (the cans Trish just donated) is
>>> VOC:
>>> 815 g/L, obviously way in excess of the new limit within the district.
>>> Can
>>> anyone verify the VOC of Heet? Or know if the new lower VOC products
>>> will
>>> work in stoves?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It sounds like SCAQMD is acting as environmental leaders with this rule,
>>> and
>>> I have not heard that denatured and other solvents will be banned in
>>> other
>>> areas. Imagining enforcement on the PCT is difficult. However, hikers
>>> may
>>> not be able to buy denatured at resupply locations within the district,
>>> and
>>> other regions may be considering similar bans.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> L-Rod
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 29
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 16:12:05 -0700
> From: Axel Roos <roosaxel at csu.fullerton.edu>
> Subject: [pct-l] Food/money
> To: Pct-L at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <BANLkTikmYumupWR9xnMjewwGe25Lcr4y7Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hello all! My friend and I are looking to complete the PCT on a budget
> this
> year (around $600-$700 each), starting the beginning of May. We are both
> around the age of 20 (1977 Monte Dodge style, haha.)
>
> I was wondering if some of you veteran long-distance hikers could give me
> some advice. Would it be advisable to invest in bulk food, perhaps
> something
> like the High Attitude Sampler:
> http://shop.maryjanesfarm.org/store/c/78-Backpacking-Food-Samplers.aspx ,
> and to ship flat rate (USPS $10.95) boxes to resupply points? If so what
> bulk suppliers would you reccommend?
> Or to buy food along the way at trail towns (or a balance between the
> two)?
>
>
> In your experience, which would yield lower costs while keeping reasonable
> nutrition?
> Please keep in mind, I am not one to rip others off and take large amounts
> from hiker boxes or trail magic, so I hope you don't feel the need to put
> us
> down. We simply would like to have an epic quest while keeping our
> expenses
> reasonable.
> Thank you! HYOH
> -Axel
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 30
> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2011 16:18:58 -0700
> From: Ate Tuna <atetuna at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Food/money
> To: Axel Roos <roosaxel at csu.fullerton.edu>
> Cc: Pct-L at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <BANLkTik1-ytVYe=y=Mi=-tRyVPpMhXQ2ug at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Flat rate is not the least expensive way to ship priority anymore. This is
> another reason you should have Yogi's books. Regional rate type A & B are
> now less expensive. Go to the USPS website and compare. In my case it's
> cheaper to any point on the trail by an average of over 30%.
>
> That sampler is a horrendously expensive idea. That's about 1 day of food
> for the both of you. At about $50 a day, you would be out of money in
> less
> than a month.
>
> On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 4:12 PM, Axel Roos
> <roosaxel at csu.fullerton.edu>wrote:
>
>> Hello all! My friend and I are looking to complete the PCT on a budget
>> this
>> year (around $600-$700 each), starting the beginning of May. We are both
>> around the age of 20 (1977 Monte Dodge style, haha.)
>>
>> I was wondering if some of you veteran long-distance hikers could give me
>> some advice. Would it be advisable to invest in bulk food, perhaps
>> something
>> like the High Attitude Sampler:
>> http://shop.maryjanesfarm.org/store/c/78-Backpacking-Food-Samplers.aspx ,
>> and to ship flat rate (USPS $10.95) boxes to resupply points? If so what
>> bulk suppliers would you reccommend?
>> Or to buy food along the way at trail towns (or a balance between the
>> two)?
>>
>>
>> In your experience, which would yield lower costs while keeping
>> reasonable
>> nutrition?
>> Please keep in mind, I am not one to rip others off and take large
>> amounts
>> from hiker boxes or trail magic, so I hope you don't feel the need to put
>> us
>> down. We simply would like to have an epic quest while keeping our
>> expenses
>> reasonable.
>> Thank you! HYOH
>> -Axel
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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>
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