[pct-l] Gear for sale.

Wed Apr 13 23:10:23 CDT 2011

Hey, thank you. That was exactly the sort of response I was, in my own poor
fashion, trying to elicit. Your negatives all correspond to my doubts, and
your positives to what I'm hearing from other people. Yes, I feel silly for
not being able to test out this kind of gear beforehand. But such is the way
when you decide to do things at the last minute. I'm not particularly
worried about having a less than ideal set-up for 5 months, but as long as I
have time to change it up I may as well be strategic.

I really do like the thing (though I am 6'1) and would love to have it in my
set. But I am wondering if I shouldn't save a bit of that weight. Like you
hinted, I'm not sure the PCT will be throwing enough at me to justify the
bombshelter.

It comes down to me thinking I may want the tarp and beak but not the insert
(it is really well made, but definitely heavy). I'm starting to think I may
get a different insert for bug country/rainy washington. Maybe a bivy, maybe
just a mozzy net.

Have you found much need for the rear wall in practical application during
rainstorms?

Anyway, thanks again for such a great reply.

Oh, and though you offered the most dissuasive recommendation I've seen for
the hexamid set-up yet (you seem to confirm some of my initial concerns on
size - are you 6'+?), how much are you trying to sell it at?

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 11:03 PM, John Abela <abela at johnabela.com> wrote:

> Hey Brendan,
>
> I sooo badly wanted to score the Camo version but I was totally out of
> money.
>
> I think your decision on using the HMG Echo should be based upon a
> number of things:
>
> Negatives:
>
> (a) you spent a crap load of money on it, if you do not like it can
> you sell it quickly and buy something else in time to test it and see
> if you like it? (aka: the typical argument for not planning to hike
> the PCT months in advance and thoroughly test your gear)
>
> (b) if you do not like head-only entrance tents than this presents
> problems.
>
> (c) if you are at or around 6 feet tall this thing sucks to move
> around in (sitting up and hitting your head, trying to spin around
> inside is very hard)
>
> (d) if you just want to use a tarp most of the time, there are a lot
> lighter options out there for a cf tarp
>
> (e) the weight of the insert is considerably more than other inserts
> out there (but none are even close to being as awesome as this one)
>
>
> Positives:
>
> (a) the HMG Echo is the most bomb proof tent I have ever used. Nothing
> you encounter on the PCT will come close to putting the Echo to a real
> test.
>
> (b) like other modular systems, in those areas where you might not
> need an insert, you can just take the tarp.
>
> (c) the highest bathtub in the industry. nice for if you have a
> massive NeoAir and want to make sure you don't have water come over
> the bathtub sidewalls, the Echo is the best out there.
>
> (d) performance-to-weight ratio of the Echo is perhaps the best that
> money can buy.
>
> (e) pack ability is significantly smaller compared to TarpTent and MSR
> and other tents out there. My ZPacks Hexa/Inset is the only thing I
> have found that packs smaller (and only by about 1/2 inch)
>
>
> Personally I setup both the Tarp and the Insert all the time as I
> rarely am able to cowboy camp here in the middle of the Redwood forest
> because well, it's a rain forest... it's always raining.
>
>
> For me, hiking the PCT I suppose it all comes down to two things:
>
> (1) how much weight do I want to carry?
> (2) how much comfort do I want to have?
>
> The answer to number one is more and more becoming defined by my
> answer to number two. I could just as easily do a decent percentage of
> the PCT with a sub 5 lb BPW setup as I could a sub 10. I have the gear
> to do both and regularly camp with both. My 3.78 lb setup would
> probably work for the vast majority of the PCT with the exception of
> the cold regions. Likewise my 7.2 lb setup would work just as well for
> probably everywhere on the PCT. But, in all honestly, I have been able
> to prove to myself that I have the skills necessary to take it down
> really light and do ok (and really, I think most folks getting that
> low do it for the education and skills you learn, as I did/have) but
> in the end, screw it, I want some comfort in my life - especially if I
> am going to be on the trail for weeks (or months).
>
> Just to clarify, I have not yet hiked the PCT - my scheduled start
> date is April 2012.
>
> I postponed the PCT this year in an attempt to do the Bigfoot Trail
> later this year.
>
> So to try to answer your questions...
>
> Do I think the HMG Echo II is too big? Nope. The tarp might present
> problems in some areas that are tight - it is after all a 51” tarp -
> and with gidelines you are stretched out to around 75"
>
> At the same time I would answer my own questions about it: Is it
> comfortable? The answer to that is yes and no. If you are use to a
> nice size entrance and being able to sit up and move around than the
> HMG Echo II is going to be ruff - considering this is much more than
> just a two or three day trip... 150+ nights you have to spend in your
> tent if you do not cowboy camp. But than again, one should not expect
> luxury in a system this size.
>
> Compared to my TarpTent Rainbow the Echo (both I and II) are vastly
> tighter and smaller. I love the ability to sit up anywhere inside of
> my Rainbow and have head room. I love the ability to turn around
> inside of it, I love the ability to sleep with my head at either end
> of it - all things that are very hard to do with an Echo. But that is
> a sacrifice one makes with these tents.
>
> Compared to my ZPacks Hexamid Solo Tarp and Bug Insert, the HMG Echo
> II feels like a mansion. But the ZPacks setup is the worlds lightest
> double wall tent setup in the world AFAIAA (at 14 oz) and it does just
> fine. I just hike the Lost Coast Trail with my ZPacks setup. But you
> know what, I had to sacrifice a whole lot of comfort. Getting into it
> required I get on all four and literally crawl into the thing (even
> harder than getting into the HMG Echo I). There is very little
> headroom (less than the Echo I) and while it feels like it has a bit
> more room inside than the Echo I, the SMD Gatewood Cape is actually
> wider feeling than it is. But again, this is the price we pay for
> wanting to go smaller and lighter.
>
> I am just not going to answer "should you take it with you" Brendan.
> Sorry. I think it is foolish to hike a 2500 mile trail without having
> proven the gear in your pack is what you want in there, what you like,
> what works for you. Do not mean to sound like a jerk here and please
> do not think that. It is just unimaganable that anybody would want to
> hike a trail like this without gear they have time-tested themselves.
> I would not trust anybody to recommend gear to me and me hit the trail
> without me actually trying it, without proving it - even if it was
> recommended by those guys who have hiked the PCT multiple times. So
> again, do not mean to not answer your question, I just do not think it
> is my place to say whether you should use it - especially considering
> you have not even set it up yet... please... get out there and test
> your gear before you hit the trail. Once you get that puppy setup you
> might realize "man, this sucker rocks" and it will be the last tent
> you will ever buy - there is no doubt that the HMG Echo might be the
> last tent a person ever needs to buy - it is that awesome.
>
> As for whether I would personally hike the PCT with the HMG Echo 1...
> I would say, "heck ya!" At 23 ounces it ranks as perhaps the best
> performance-to-weight ratio double wall tent a person could use on the
> PCT.
>
> As for whether I would personally hike the PCT with the Echo II I
> would probably say "Only if I did not have the Echo I" - the six
> ounces plus much wider tarp would be hard to justify if I had both. Of
> course, I do have both the Echo I and Echo II so as you can see by my
> wanting to sell the Echo I, I have chosen the extra few ounces and
> wider footprint - but, if it came down to me having to pick one or the
> other for the PCT, I would go with the Echo I. Having spent enough
> time in both of them over the last few months, I would sacrifice a few
> extra inches of luxury for the savings of the few extra ounces and
> smaller footprint.
>
> Anyway, hope that somewhere in all this ramble is something to encourage
> you.
>
> John
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 5:42 PM, Brendan Beltz <brendanbeltz at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Are you hiking with the Echo II this year? I just bought the Echo II Camo
> > System at a discount from HMG, but now that I have it in hand I'm having
> > second thoughts. It's bulkier than I expected. It's also maybe a little
> > overkill it seems. I was actually thinking about putting it on BPL just
> to
> > recoup the cost (I haven't even been able to set it up yet.) I'm sure
> > somebody will want an unused Echo II system for 440. But that leaves me
> back
> > at square one a week before I leave for the trail.
> >
> > Are you thru-hiking with the thing? Do you use the insert for rain or
> just
> > bugs or neither(the tarp seems big enough without the backwall)? Do you
> bivy
> > instead?  A lighter insert?
> >
> > I guess I feel like I bought more than I need for this hike. Maybe a
> twinge
> > of buyer's remorse.
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 5:41 PM, John Abela <
> pacificcresttrail2011 at gmail.com
> >> wrote:
> >
> >> Hey All,
> >>
> >> I just posted some new threads at BPL for some gear I am trying to
> sale...
> >>
> >> Hyperlight Mountain Gear (HMG) Echo 1
> >>
> >>
> http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=46029
> >>
> >> Hyperlight Mountain Gear (HMG) 2010 Windrdider Ultralight pack
> >>
> >>
> http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=46031
> >>
> >> INOV8 X-talon 212 Men's Shoes (10.5)
> >>
> >>
> http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=46032
> >>
> >> MiniBullDesign Squirrel Cage 600
> >>
> >>
> http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=44439
> >>
> >> I also have sitting around:
> >> U-Dig-It Stainless-Steel Hand Shovel
> >> Ibex Woolies Bottom (large)
> >> Ibex Woolies Crew (long sleeve, large)
> >> ULA Helix (53cm)
> >>
> >> Last up is a Nunatak Torre Down Parka - sized XLarge (for layering)
> >> and in Epic material and without the hood (for custom balaclava).
> >> http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/garments/torre.htm
> >> $400 bucks and I will ship it to you... save yourself $250+
> >>
> >>
> >> John B. Abela
> >> www.RedwoodOutdoors.Com
> >>
> >> In God's wildness lies the hope of the world - the great fresh
> >> unblighted, unredeemed wilderness. The galling harness of civilization
> >> drops off, and wounds heal ere we are aware. ~ John Muir
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