[pct-l] Hammocks

[enyapjr at comcast.net]

The following is in response to John Abela's post, sorry in advance if 
it is too lengthy for some...  :-\

> (1) Not finding two trees when you are dead tired.
Do some 'homework' ahead of time and also THINK ahead of time...

> (2) There not being any trees for miles in a few areas.
True, but IMHO it is indeed a FEW areas...

> (3) Excessive weight in cold regions.
Not as much as many 'believe' to be truly "excessive"...

> To expand on each of those:
>
> 1) You have been hiking for 28 miles, you are dead tired, and it is
> getting dark. There are no usable trees around you, so, you either
> sleep on the ground (defeating the purpose of having a hammock -
> giggle) or you keep hiking another mile or more in search of two
> usable trees. Is that really want you want to do under these
> circumstances? Yes, it is something which ever hiker faces eventually,
> whether they have a hammock or a tent, but it is greatly amplified as
> a hammock hiker. Read any book or trail journal of folks on the PCT
> and you are going to find story after story of hikers facing hard
> times trying to find a place to setup, after hours and hours of hiking
> hard. And than you want to complicate the matter even worse by using a
> hammock on a trail that was designed for tents. Chances are, you'll be
> sleeping on the ground on your hammock. (been there, done that, a lot,
> it sucks)
'Many' thrus don't attain 28 miles per day until further N on the trail -
where there are many more trees 'overall'...
Many of those books/journals "facing hard times trying to find a place to
setup" are looking for a FLAT, LEVEL place - on the ground for a 'tent'...
"trail that was designed for tents" - sorry, I do not 'get' that, unless
you mean there isn't a shelter or lean-to every 8 - 12 miles like the AT...
"sleeping on the ground on your hammock" - personally, never have, never 
will - wouldn't want to risk damaging the fabric that supports in the air!
 
> 2) There are more than a few sections of the PCT where there are not
> two trees spaced between 9 and 16 feet apart. What about the Mojave?
> You going to try to tie off to two Joshua Trees? What about Tehachapi?
> Going to hope that two cows stand still all night? What about the
> Marble Mountains? Yes, a few trees there, but very very few perfect
> for hammocks. What about your first night on the trail, 10-15 miles
> North of Mexico? Going to hope two people who just crossed the boarder
> are willing to hold your hammock up all night? The list could go on.
> And, if you think you are wanting to use a hammock for the 'comfort',
> what about all of those nights when you have to sleep on the ground.
> Are you going to bring an extra sleeping pad just for those nights,
> which will add 10+ ounces of total dead weight - that sucks too.
"two trees spaced between 9 and 16 feet apart" - my 'sweet spot' is 15-16',
but I've hung between 12' to 28'...
"two Joshua Trees?" - it has been done!
"What about the Marble Mountains?" - don't know where you were 'forced' to
camp, but there are more than enough trees to hang from in the Marbles along
the PCT!  "few perfect (trees) for hammocks" - they 'have' to be "perfect"?
What is a "perfect" tree for hanging? - any pair that will support my weight 
with no 'widow makers' above me...
"...10-15 miles North of Mexico?" - what about all the oaks as you approach
Hauser Creek?
"all of those nights when you have to sleep on the ground" - neither Roni 
from Israel nor the Ewoks had 'many' nights on the ground, and most times it 
was their 'choice' at the moment...
A cut down pad (torso length) is not "total dead weight" - it 'doubles' as a
sit pad, pack 'frame support', and feet/lower leg insulation in the hammock
for those COLD nights...
What John has not said in his post is that he has gone UL, far enough to be 
considered SUL (& good for him - more power to him!) - but that is NOT for
everyone (the HYOH caveat)...  He 'worries' about the grams & ounces adding up!

> 3) In the cold regions (which seem to be more, rather than less) you
> have to have not one quilt, but two. An underquilt and and overquilt.
> Do not think for one moment that you can get away without an
> underquilt - only using a pad - in SoCal and the Sierras. You'll
> suffer CBS so badly that you will not be able to sleep. So, you will
> be forced to carry two quilts. Each of those weight nearly the same as
> a standard sleeping bag. So that means you are carrying twice as much
> as you would if you had a tent. Than you have to figure that you will
> need an additional ground cloth for when you are forced to sleep on
> the ground. This will add even more weight to your setup. Even if you
> buy the best of the best of the hammock gear out there - warmth verses
> weight - you will be looking at between 3-5 pounds of additional
> weight, in using a hammock setup rather than a tent setup.
I do totally agree on using an UQ - both for warmth & the comfort factor...
My 20* 2/3 UQ is 15.6 ounces; 20* top quilt is 20 oz. - 35.6 oz. total (but 
that is only 4 ounces more than my 20* WM bag!)...
My kite-weight Tyvek ground cloth is less than 2 ounces...
"between 3-5 pounds of additional weight, in using a hammock setup rather than 
a tent setup" - I respectfully totally disagree!  My total shelter AND sleep 
system is under 5.4 pounds - and could be less, especially if I used a
different hammock...  5.4 pounds probably sounds "excessive" to many on this 
list, but remember that is the TOTAL for all contingencies, BOTH 'shelter' AND 
'sleep' combined...
Hammock & suspension & stuff sack = 20.2 oz.; 10' tree huggers & clips = 5.8 oz.; 
tarp (MacCat Deluxe Hex, SpinnUL) w/all guylines = 11.4 oz.; stakes = 3 oz.;
20* 2/3 UQ = 15.6 oz. & 20* TQ = 20 oz.; 24" x 80" Tyvek = 1.8 oz.; 'torso'
length Z-Rest = 8 oz.; stuff sack for stakes & tree huggers = 0.4 oz. ...
Total = 86.2 oz. = 5.39 pounds...  Yes, it could be lighter - I could 'invest'
in some cuben fiber gear, but I for one do NOT think "excessive money" to shave a
few more ounces is worth it, nor justifiable, for ME...
And what does a 'typical' thru 'tenter' carry??  2-3# tent, 2# bag, 1# pad & 
groundcloth - so probably about 5# 'average' for total shelter & sleep systems (?)...

> I was still unable to get close to the weight of a standard tent setup.
And what is a "standard tent setup"?  Is there REALLY a 'standard' ANYTHING when
it comes to long distance hikes?  It is what works for each individual!

> I did not want a 10+ pound BPW setup
My current 'planned' BPW is hovering around 13 pounds - might try to lighten up
some more, but if not - it will be good enough for ME (& lighter than many)...  ;-)

> I do not think the PCT is the ideal trail for hammock usage...
Nor is it always the ideal for tent usage - or always ideal for tarp usage - or...
The PCT is simply not always "ideal"...

> only you can answer if these are 'worth it' for you
For me it is definitely 'worth it'...  The deep, sound sleep without waking up
during the night...  Getting up in the morning without any sore or stiff hips,
shoulders, neck, etc. from 'ground dwelling'...  My body more fully recuperates 
after a long day of hiking or trail work when using a hammock...
It is absolutely WORTH IT for me!!  ;o)

Again, sorry for the lengthy reply - but there isn't much hammock 'talk' on pct-l.

Happy trails & happy hanging!!!
Jim (PITA)