[pct-l] Fw: Re: Fw: Re: horses

[Charles Williams]

--- On Sat, 12/17/11, Charles Williams <charlesnolie at yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Charles Williams <charlesnolie at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Fw: Re: horses
To: "rob gratz" <hikergratz at gmail.com>
Date: Saturday, December 17, 2011, 3:27 AM







"This is a lie"  You say!   I can't believe you went to the BCHA website to investigate my claim of their supporting LNT principles and didn't happen to see the button, nearly at the top of the screen, that said "Leave No Trace".  Before calling someone a liar as you  just called me, I would expect you to make at least a good faith effort to investigate my claim.  You went to their website and collected the ammunition you thought you needed to shoot me down, which had nothing to do with my statement and then called me a liar for making a statement that is entirely truthful.  Read the page that pops up when you click on the LNT button on their home page.  I saw it plain as day so I don't know why you couldn't.
 
Yes, they advocate for continued stock use of our public lands.  I would expect a similar mission statement from a hiker oriented group.

www.backcountryhorse.com 
 
As far as your question goes, I can't remember it since you hacked up the emails, but I'd imagine it has to do with horseshit on the trail.  When I was young, opinionated, and arogant, I thought only people like me should be allowed to use the wilderness.  The rangers of Sequoia and Kings Canyon would tell me I had the "right attitude" by handing out fliars for hiker advocacy groups.  I remember on a trip from Kennedy Meadows to Canada I met a backcountry camp of horsemenin Le Conte canyon.  They were nice they offered me breakfast but I turned 'em down and said "your horses and mules destroy the trail!"  
 
This was without any real consideration of how little effort it actually took to step over a pile of horse poop.  It was just a knee-jerk reaction to something that wasn't really a problem to me at all.  When I got old and fat and broke my back I started looking to horses to keep me in the backcountry.  I sincerely hope that never happens to you.  But it might.  Think about it.
 
And if you think horsemen are the only ones to screw up the backcountry, they're not.  You've been on the list a while and I'm sure you've read about lazy hikers dumping their trash at toilets, water caches, and campgrounds with allready full trash cans.  Even if they leave some lame-assed note:  "can you please carry out my trash, cause I'm to weak to carry it any more".  I've also seen a hiker burry his dinner in a hole he scuffed in the sand with his boot instead of packing out the meal he had found unsavery.
--- On Sat, 12/17/11, rob gratz <hikergratz at gmail.com> wrote:


From: rob gratz <hikergratz at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Fw: Re: horses
To: "Charles Williams" <charlesnolie at yahoo.com>
Cc: "PCT list" <Pct-L at backcountry.net>
Date: Saturday, December 17, 2011, 1:09 AM


> The Backcountry Horsemen of America is the only non-profit outdoor related
> business that I've heard of that picks up the tab for training it's members
> in Leave No Trace ethics.

this is a lie. go to their website  and read their mission statment i
quote" Back Country Horsemen are interested in perpetuating
recreational stock use on virtually all public lands.go to thier
website nowhere do you see one  thing about cleaning up after
yourself. see for yourself
http://www.backcountryhorse.com/index.html

i noticed you never answed my question. don`t feel bad no one else has eithier.