[pct-l] FW: Gear/Weight/Risk
dnielsen at djmurphycompany.com
dnielsen at djmurphycompany.com
Mon Feb 21 10:20:28 CST 2011
I don't think my comments showed up in red so I tried to do them in bold.
Thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
On Behalf Of dnielsen at djmurphycompany.com
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 9:06 AM
To: 'John Abela'
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Gear/Weight/Risk
John - thank you and everyone else for all of your helpful comments. Much
appreciated. I think right now I will be having a base weight between 11 lb
and 20 lb which will be adjusted via bounce box based upon conditions on the
ground for each section. I am going to continue experimenting with this on
my test hikes. I may also find out that I am a section hiker, we will just
have to see. As long has I am still moving in a forward direction at some
speed I am ok with that. Thanks again everyone, I may have more questions.
A few comments below.
_____
From: John Abela [mailto:pacificcresttrail2011 at gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 11:49 PM
To: dnielsen at djmurphycompany.com
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Gear/Weight/Risk
On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 10:31 AM, <dnielsen at djmurphycompany.com> wrote:
To those experienced through hikers, particularly anyone who has done large
sections or completed the PCT:
Hello David,
I think most of the comments already posted here are spot-on.
I would like to share my own experiences, but please understand that while I
have been outdoors for a good part of my life, I have not yet been able to
thru-hiked the PCT, but it is planned !!
I too was raised with the "always be prepared - for anything" rule.
I also along the way learned the "1 is none, two is one, and three is two"
rule, which has saved a fair amount of guys over the years.
I few years ago when I got back into hiking I started off at about 32 pounds
for my baseweight. After my first hike I realized that was just not going to
happen again. Getting old sucks. I was 36 years old.. not 19 anymore after
all.
My next hike out I was down to 26. I did not change any gear, I just
realized I had overpacked "for the sake of survival" Did I really need four
different types of materiel and gear to start a fire? No. Nowhere I was
going was more than one days hike to a town. No where I was going would all
of a sudden go from 60-f down to the teens (where it really gets hard to
start a fire). Now, I carry one min lighter and two storm proof matches. I
have been carrying the same ones for over a year - and I go hiking every
week.
Over the last year I have gone from the 18 pound range for my baseweight
down to the 4 pound range. Yes, I am one of those with a backpack that
weighs under a pound (mine is 9 ounces). Why? Because the rest of my gear
does not warrant a heavier backpack. Why should I use a backpack that weighs
75% more than the rest of my gear combined. (In my mind it would be to allow
me to carry 16lb of water plus food . What is the max load you are
comfortable with in this pack? I have 1lb ULA Conduit and it maxes out for
me at about 25lb. I guess if I had a 4 pound base range, 16lb water and 6lb
food I would be at 26lb, plus fuel. My current "light weight base load" is
11lb so plus 22lb would be 33lb. I think I will re-test that pack at 33lb
with water consumption along the way and see how that works. My current
heavy weight pack is an Osprey Aether with about 1lb of stuff cut off or
removed from it is now under 4lb. I really like support system here but the
pack material is way to heavy and to many features I don't need. I may need
a pack somewhere in the middle of these two. Ps. If my wife sees me buy
another backpack I will definitely be able to test my tent more often in the
backyard. Can you guys write me note or something?) Does a 36 ounce [2.25
lb] ULA pack provide me any more comfort than a 9 ounces pack? No. Not at
this amount of gear. That said, I do not like to abuse myself soI plan on
swapping out my 9-ounce pack for a 25 ounce pack for when I get into the
Sierras and have the 12+ days of food and bear canister to deal with (and
maybe a couple other spots.) Now, that is just the plan. Maybe by the time I
get to KM I will have realized I can pull off using a 9 ounce pack with 20
additional pounds of food and a 38 ounce bear can. But this falls into the
"confidence of gear" issue.
Do I enjoy hiking with a 4 pound baseweight? Oh yeah. Love it !! I can hike
a weee bit faster (another quarter mile per hour), with lesser chance of
injury when/if I fall/slip/twist, and a greater feel of freedom (all a
personal matter of perspective). Have I had to give up some "luxuries". Yes,
but very very few as I really look back on things. Have I had to put myself
at greater risk of not having "survival gear"? Yes. No other obvious answer
than "yes". Of course yes. But as so many have said, unless you are some
super speed hiker and are 'out front of everybody else', there is a very
good chance that you will never be more than 24 hours of somebody else. What
kind of survival gear would a person need that would justify having to carry
a 25 pound pack over a 10 pound pack? For me it would be a tent that does
not leak and a bag that will keep me warm. I have single wall tent and just
did two days/nights in rain and 40 mph wind. It handled the wind ok with
extra staking but really started to mist inside and if you touched the side
walls you got pretty wet. This was not just condensation, the water was
moving through the material, I think. My bag got pretty wet. I also have
1lb Bag 35 degree and for me 35 degrees is it for that bag with Cap 3's on
and a beenie, I am thin blooded desert dweller and I don't do cold to well.
This gear is part of my 11lb base weight. My heavy base weight includes
double wall tent and 15 degree bag but that adds some pounds. Do you
really need 5 layers of cloth? Really? Are you near-death because you opted
for two layers over five layers... rather than just start a fire - even if
it is not allowed, your life is more important than breaking some fire law.
If it is a matter of my life verses a ticket, hand me a ticket. Is it a
matter of the utterly remote chance of "life or death on the pct" because
you choose to go with two layers over 5 layers, and save yourself 4-6 pounds
of clothing? Well, how many people have died on the PCT because of extreme
cold? I realize these are hard-case situations to argue, but it all comes
down to realistic planning for the trip. One does not plan to build to build
a house without a blueprint - one should not plan a hike without one either.
Knowing what you will be facing can so drastically change what you need in
your pack.
What I thought I would point out are the following main items I personally
was faced with:
(1) Here recently cottage gear makers have started to make products with
much lighter weight - and stronger - material than we had in the days of
boyscouts (for us at least). This has made it so that by simply buying the
same item with lighter materials we can save weight. Yes, it *sometimes*
costs more. Yes, the savings are usually minimal - but not always. For
example, a person could go with the MSR Carbon Reflex at 42 ounces [2 lbs 10
oz] -or- you could go with the TarpTent Rainbow at 34 ounces [2.12]
-or- you could go with the HexaNet Bug Shelter setup at 11.1 ounces [0.69
pounds]. So for the same basic tent design/protection you have three
options. With a weight differences of 31 ounces [1.9 pounds]. Ok, so two
pounds might not seem like a lot if you have a 20 pound pack, but that is
1/10th of your weight. Ok, 1/10th of your weight might not seem like a big
deal to some, but just ask yourself "Why?" lug around 2 pounds of totally
unnecessary weight. If you can save yourself 1/10th of your packweight, it
just seems stupid to not do so. No lost of comfort, sometimes even cheaper
(MSR verses TarpTent), and yet a significant percentage savings. I do have
some of these products. For me the single wall is ok for occasional rain but
would not want to sit out a 2 day storm. My double wall set up will handle
that.
(2) Confidences in gear is everything. Over the last couple of years that I
went from the ~18 down to the ~10 range, I spent a massive amount of time
spent sleeping outside, testing gear, reviewing gear, and so forth. I
realize not everybody can do this (but, most of us have a backyard, or a
balcony, right?) I personally do not understand why somebody would take on
the PCT with little-to-no experience hiking. I know it's done every year, I
just do not see the wisdom of it. Personally, I want to know what my bag can
get me down too - even if it means spending a cold night in snow somewhere
before a big hike to know if my bag can handle it. I want to know just how
much rain my tent can handle, or my rain jacket. I want to know just what is
going to happen to my shoes after 300+ miles. I have to know how to fix my
gear too (we learned this skill in boyscouts.) You cannot fix it until it
breaks... so use, test, and abuse your gear pre-trip as much as you can. I
just had to send back my beloved hiking poles because I broke one of them. I
did something stupid and now I am paying for it. But, I learned what not do
to. If I was on the trail headed up to big bear and I broke it, how much
would that suck. Confidence in your gear and your ability to fix your gear -
and confidence in yourself - must be the #1 most important priority as far
as I am concerned. Taking out untested gear is like using an untested gun in
a gun fight. Agree a 100% percent.
(3) Knowing what gear is out there is the hardest part. For me, I knew I
could get down to below 10 pounds, I just did not know how. By that I mean I
did not know what kind of gear was out there that these sub-10 pound guys
were/are using. I knew my jacket would keep me warm, but it weighed 2+
pounds. It was only after I joined the pct-l mailing list, and websites like
BPL, that I began to really learn 'what was out there'. The parka I have now
can keep me warm down to around 20-degrees, and it weighs 9 pounds - a full
2 pounds lighter than my last jacket. This again comes down to the "why
carry unnecessary weight" factor. My tent weighed 4.some odd pounds. Almost
more than the rest of my gear right now put together. I had no idea what UL
and SUL tents existed. How could a double wall sub-1-pound tent exist I
thought to myself. Well, they do. I have a 14.5 oz Primaloft jacket that
has served me well, in my light and heavy weight set ups. Rarely if ever
hike in it but I like having a synthectic backup as my bag is down. I have
been just soaked on some trips and it was nice to have the synthetic jacket.
I have really been debating this one though. I might need to look into the
lighter double wall tent, currently can split weight on Hubba Hubba which is
about 40oz. but I do not have solo double wall tent. I also need to come to
grips with water treatment. We always used to just used 2 drops of bleach
per quart, I don't think filters existed. Never got sick. Now I have this
1lb filter which is really nice with nasty water, usually split this weight.
>From what I can tell most thru's just use chemical treatment and I can do
that, did it before.
(4) Costs are not always what you think they might be. I (as most of us
do/have) quickly realized when I started getting back into hiking/camping
that this gear is just not cheap - especially if you want top-of-the-line
gear. In most cases one does not need top of the line gear. I think there
are a few exceptions to that of course - such as a good backpack (I think
most of us would agree that dropping a couple hundred bucks for a good top
of the line backpack is a worthy investment over a wallmart special -- that
is, if wallmart even sales them, I have no idea, haven't been in a wallmart
in 10+ years) But lets talk hiking poles. Some of us are willing to drop
nearly 200 bucks for a pair of GossamerGear LT4's or Goat Poles and some are
even willing to drop the $300+ bucks for a 60" LuxuryLite BigStik. At the
end of the day, in regards to quality, they are no different than a pair of
$50 (or less) hiking poles you can pick up at REI - but they are 50%+
lighter. But anyway, back to the issue of costs. My 2009 18 pound setup
costs a little $1162 more than my existing 4 pound setup - even though the
gear I am buying now is a lot more expensive per item than before. Simply
put, the more gear you have the more money you spend. My 2011 5 pound gear
list costs $2390 and my 2011 4 pound gear list costs $1803 and my 2011 snow
gear setup (9 pounds) costs $3098 (Sigh, why is good quality layering cloths
sooo expensive.) Anyway, I know that a lot of folks out there hike in cloths
they pick up at the dollar store - I think it is awesome they do that!! I
have $750 bucks tied up in just clothing in my 5 pound setup [24 ounces for
clothing] and $435 bucks in clothing for my 4 pound setup [11 ounces in
clothing]. That's some expensive ounces. But, guess what, my gear from 2009
which weighed 79 ounces, cost $790 bucks. Again, I know some of you do not
spend that for your entire setup. Not arguing that point (and do not want
too, I'd let you win) but the point I am trying to make is that "going
lighter does not always mean it is more expensive". I am willing to spend
the money if the stuff works as I can't get a new back.
Honestly David, if you have an 25 pound pack and you feel safe and confident
with it, I do not think anybody here would condemn you for that. I sure am
not - please do not think I am. (if you had a 40 pound pack, I might start
to question you though :-p ).
I do think a lot of people here would try to get you to consider some
options though.
What I did was go from heavy, to lighter, to even lighter, to way light, to
a point where my experience was not keeping up with my (lost of) weight. I
have been able to gear my gear down to 4.33 pounds [69.37 oz] and feel safe
and comfortable. But at that weight, for me, if it is much below 40 degrees
during the day and below 28 at night, I am going to start to suffer. As I am
a person who cannot see how hiking should be about suffering, adding another
9 oz worth of clothing in order to no longer suffer just makes sense and I
have no problem doing it -- that is what bounce boxes are for after all. As
everybody who has gone down the quest to see how light they can go has
discovered, at some point David, everything you said is dead-on right. At
some point we loose confidence in our gear, in our ability to survive, in
our ability to stay comfortable. My "comfortable" today with a 5.3 pound
pack is the same "comfort" that I had two years ago at 18 pounds - except
now when I am on the trail with a pack on my back, I have 15 pounds less
stuff I am lugging down the trail. So please do not think I am arguing
against your points here, because I 100% am not. I simply wanted to point
out some thoughts from somebody on the other side of the scale - and I am
far from the lightest guy out there. Believe me when I wonder to myself
(even with my 4.3 pound base weight pack on) "these guys with packs under 4
pounds... something is wrong with those guys!!". Of course that is
(probably??) not true, they have been able to find comfort at a level I have
not.
Great post David and a lot of us have been where you are at - myself
included. Thanks again.
Have a great week!
John B. Abela
www.RedwodGuy.Com
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