[pct-l] bear bagging

Sun Jan 2 07:02:05 CST 2011

Not sure how you read Ryan's email to get that it was based on ideas from the past.  From everything I've read and seen (I go to Yosemite every year; bear central) and what he's telling us is very current.  Visitors to the back country are warned all the time to not try to fight a bear for your food.  And the reason is simple: if the bear wants it bad enough he will win!  Food containers that are bear proof are vital components of modern back country camping.  They protect you, your food, and most importantly, the bear!

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: trailwife at aol.com 
  To: yosemiteryan at yahoo.com 
  Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net 
  Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2011 7:26 AM
  Subject: Re: [pct-l] bear bagging

   Ryan's explanation and observations about the bears is as I believe to be accurate. It is also based on ideas from the days of 8 track tapes and bear hunting with hounds. Since then the bear population has about doubled. I think the whole "bear/people management" plans need to be revisited on Public Lands.

  While I do not advocate renewed bear hunting, I do not mourn the loss of a few bears now.  I know an expanding bear population will soon be overpopulation that will bring starvation death to many bear.

  There is no easy answer and since I have little confidence in our government to do anything in an honest and timely manner, I do not expect a good answer.

  The Old RidgeRunner

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Ryan Christensen <yosemiteryan at yahoo.com>
  To: Kevin <hikelite at gmail.com>; Melanie Clarke <melaniekclarke at gmail.com>
  Cc: pct-l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
  Sent: Sun, Jan 2, 2011 4:10 am
  Subject: Re: [pct-l] bear bagging

  Kevin,
  I have a feeling I may not be the only one to reply to your post-- but I suppose 
  I will be the first. I was one of those "pesky" rangers asking about bear cans. 
  rom what you wrote, I can tell that perhaps you have not had the experience 
  ith bears that many Rangers, including myself have had. At heart, Rangers, and 
  ll these food storage regulations are there to save bears. Bears are absolutely 
  beautiful creatures with personality and a zest for life. When I worked in the 
  arks, I was not just hiking through the mountains-- I lived there. I got to 
  now the bears- their personalities, the quirks, their cubs, parents and 
  randparents-- and gained a very different perspective. If you watch them and 
  ay attention they very much remind us of ourselves. I have a brief clip of a 
  ideo I took of a bear doing bear things here: 
  ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwOTMfnFuc4  Its a little over halfway through 
  he video. 

  Ursacks were revoked because they have failed in real world situations in the 
  ackcountry. I have had a visitor come out of the backcountry with a torn 
  rsack-- then weeks later at the same location (on the PCT) get the report that 
  omeone had to be helicoptered out because they were clawed by a bear-- then 
  ear the heart breaking story of the bear having to be hunted down and killed. I 
  have looked into the eyes of a mother bear in a trap, her cub crying next to 
  er, knowing she had to be killed because of the stupid decisions of visitors 
  efore- who also came and went and did not care enough about the well being of 
  he bears to properly store their food. The point is: there is a direct 
  orrelation between a bear getting human food for the first time- the bear 
  uickly becoming addicted to human food- the bear loosing their natural fear of 
  umans- then the bear becoming bolder and more aggressive in its efforts to 
  ontinue its addiction to human food-- this pattern continues until someone gets 
  hurt-- or have to be killed. Night after night, I have chased the same bear away 
  from food that people have left out-- to eventually learn that it too had to be 
  illed-- its three cubs shipped out to a Zoo. It is with a sense of compassion 
  nd responsibility that we should be properly storing our food. In my opinion, 
  ts not worth risking the life of a bear to save a few ounces, nor, IMHO is my 
  ood important enough to me that it outweighs the life of a bear. Yes, we do 
  eed containers with 100% impenetrability. 

  bout defending your food from a bear: well, that's just simply a very, very bad 
  idea. That does seem to be a common denominator with many of the bear maulings I 
  am familiar with in the Sierra-- that and using your food as a pillow, which is 
  lso a very, very bad idea. Know that not all bears are intemidated by rocks, 
  articularly the ones who have repeatedly gained food from careless 
  ackpackers-- again, if you had more experience with bears I don't think you 
  ould claim that they retreat when you throw stones, because many don't. Also, 
  e mindful of throwing those stones- years ago, in Yosemite, a boy scout killed 
   bear when he threw a rock at the bear to protect his food. If your food was 
  roperly stored to begin with then there would be no need to "protect" your 
  ood.

  or the Bears,

  roDeal
  www.bristleconemedia.com

  ----- Original Message ----
  rom: Kevin <hikelite at gmail.com>
  o: Melanie Clarke <melaniekclarke at gmail.com>
  c: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
  ent: Sun, January 2, 2011 12:10:34 AM
  ubject: Re: [pct-l] bear bagging
  Hi Melanie
  Here is the latest update from Ursack. I wish they would approve them. The 
  eight difference is huge. I think the agencies managing the backcountry are not 
  taking into account the hikers when making their decisions about what is 
  cceptable food protection. Yes, a bear could probably get into an Ursack 
  ventually. Do we need the 100% impenetrability of a rigid container? I don't 
  hink so, but it's not up to me. I hung my food for many years without trouble. 
  ll probably have a canister between KM and Echo Lakes, but it's not by choice. 

  ttp://www.ursack.com/ursack-update.htm
  I haven't yet decided to borrow, rent, or buy. I'm still hoping the Ursack will 
  e approved for the small sections it's not yet allowed. What they aren't taking 
  into consideration is how important my food is to me! They base their tests on 
  llowing a bear unlimited attempts to get the food. When I hear the bear trying 
  o get my food, you can be sure I will defend it! When I used to hang my food, I 
  would put a pile of "bear rocks" next to me at night. I have yet to meet a bear 
  hat thinks my food is worth getting pelted with rocks. They will just move on 
  o an easier reward. Bears are big, but they still retreat when you throw 
  tones. Now that I think about it, I bet that would work for pesky rangers 
  sking about me bear can. ;) I'm kidding about that last part, but it does make 
   point. HEHE
  I will reluctantly comply with the regulations, even if I don't like them. 

  isspellings and typos brought to you by iPhone.
  On Jan 1, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Melanie Clarke <melaniekclarke at gmail.com> wrote:
  > Dear PCT, or Chuck,

   Why is the Ursack illegal?  I loved the Ursack.

   Melanie

   On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 6:24 PM, CHUCK CHELIN <steeleye at wildblue.net> wrote:

  > Good evening, Mike,
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > It is very rare to see any PCT hiker bag/hang food – anywhere.  Doing so is
  > not allowed as a substitute for using an approved bear ‘can in designated
  > areas.  The last time I bagged/hung food was on an Ontario canoe trip many
  > years ago.  Usually I ditch the ‘can at Echo Summit south of Lake Tahoe,
  > but
  > once I did carry a non-approved Ursack for a while north of there because
  > there were some curious bears in that general area.  Even then I didn't
  > hoist it up; I just tethered it at ground level to a small tree.
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > On the remainder of the PCT north there are lots of bears but they keep
  > their heads down and a hiker will be lucky to see one.
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > Steel-Eye
  > 
  > Hiking the Pct since before it was the PCT – 1965
  > 
  > http://www.trailjournals.com/steel-eye
  > 
  > http://www.trailjournals.com/SteelEye09
  > 
  > 
  > On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Michael Pinkus <mikepinkus at hotmail.com
  >> wrote:
  > 
  >> 
  >> Hi All,
  >> So, bear cannisters are required on some parts of the trail, I'm assuming
  >> that you bear bag it on the rest of the trail? I only ask this as I've
  > never
  >> read anything about it anywhere. We bear bag everywhere here in Canada
  >> unless you are camping when they're hibernating.
  >> 
  >> anyone?
  >> 
  >> cheers,
  >> Mike
  >> 
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