[pct-l] bear bagging

Sun Jan 2 09:37:22 CST 2011

What I'm trying to say that I believe that our the Government management of bears is based on old ideas that the bears are to be protected to the point of their own eventual demise by over population.

-----Original Message-----
From: giniajim <jplynch at crosslink.net>
To: yosemiteryan <yosemiteryan at yahoo.com>; trailwife <trailwife at aol.com>
Cc: pct-l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Sent: Sun, Jan 2, 2011 8:02 am
Subject: Re: [pct-l] bear bagging

Not sure how you read Ryan's email to get that it was based on ideas from the past.  From everything I've read and seen (I go to Yosemite every year; bear central) and what he's telling us is very current.  Visitors to the back country are warned all the time to not try to fight a bear for your food.  And the reason is simple: if the bear wants it bad enough he will win!  Food containers that are bear proof are vital components of modern back country camping.  They protect you, your food, and most importantly, the bear!

----- Original Message ----- 
From: trailwife at aol.com 
To: yosemiteryan at yahoo.com 
Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net 
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2011 7:26 AM
Subject: Re: [pct-l] bear bagging

 Ryan's explanation and observations about the bears is as I believe to be accurate. It is also based on ideas from the days of 8 track tapes and bear hunting with hounds. Since then the bear population has about doubled. I think the whole "bear/people management" plans need to be revisited on Public Lands.

While I do not advocate renewed bear hunting, I do not mourn the loss of a few bears now.  I know an expanding bear population will soon be overpopulation that will bring starvation death to many bear.

There is no easy answer and since I have little confidence in our government to do anything in an honest and timely manner, I do not expect a good answer.

The Old RidgeRunner

-----Original Message-----
From: Ryan Christensen <yosemiteryan at yahoo.com>
To: Kevin <hikelite at gmail.com>; Melanie Clarke <melaniekclarke at gmail.com>
Cc: pct-l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Sent: Sun, Jan 2, 2011 4:10 am
Subject: Re: [pct-l] bear bagging

Kevin,
I have a feeling I may not be the only one to reply to your post-- but I suppose 
I will be the first. I was one of those "pesky" rangers asking about bear cans. 
rom what you wrote, I can tell that perhaps you have not had the experience 
ith bears that many Rangers, including myself have had. At heart, Rangers, and 
ll these food storage regulations are there to save bears. Bears are absolutely 
beautiful creatures with personality and a zest for life. When I worked in the 
arks, I was not just hiking through the mountains-- I lived there. I got to 
now the bears- their personalities, the quirks, their cubs, parents and 
randparents-- and gained a very different perspective. If you watch them and 
ay attention they very much remind us of ourselves. I have a brief clip of a 
ideo I took of a bear doing bear things here: 
ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwOTMfnFuc4 ; Its a little over halfway through 
he video. 

Ursacks were revoked because they have failed in real world situations in the 
ackcountry. I have had a visitor come out of the backcountry with a torn 
rsack-- then weeks later at the same location (on the PCT) get the report that 
omeone had to be helicoptered out because they were clawed by a bear-- then 
ear the heart breaking story of the bear having to be hunted down and killed. I 
have looked into the eyes of a mother bear in a trap, her cub crying next to 
er, knowing she had to be killed because of the stupid decisions of visitors 
efore- who also came and went and did not care enough about the well being of 
he bears to properly store their food. The point is: there is a direct 
orrelation between a bear getting human food for the first time- the bear 
uickly becoming addicted to human food- the bear loosing their natural fear of 
umans- then the bear becoming bolder and more aggressive in its efforts to 
ontinue its addiction to human food-- this pattern continues until someone gets 
hurt-- or have to be killed. Night after night, I have chased the same bear away 
from food that people have left out-- to eventually learn that it too had to be 
illed-- its three cubs shipped out to a Zoo. It is with a sense of compassion 
nd responsibility that we should be properly storing our food. In my opinion, 
ts not worth risking the life of a bear to save a few ounces, nor, IMHO is my 
ood important enough to me that it outweighs the life of a bear. Yes, we do 
eed containers with 100% impenetrability. 

bout defending your food from a bear: well, that's just simply a very, very bad 
idea. That does seem to be a common denominator with many of the bear maulings I 
am familiar with in the Sierra-- that and using your food as a pillow, which is 
lso a very, very bad idea. Know that not all bears are intemidated by rocks, 
articularly the ones who have repeatedly gained food from careless 
ackpackers-- again, if you had more experience with bears I don't think you 
ould claim that they retreat when you throw stones, because many don't. Also, 
e mindful of throwing those stones- years ago, in Yosemite, a boy scout killed 
 bear when he threw a rock at the bear to protect his food. If your food was 
roperly stored to begin with then there would be no need to "protect" your 
ood.

or the Bears,

roDeal
www.bristleconemedia.com

----- Original Message ----
rom: Kevin <hikelite at gmail.com>
o: Melanie Clarke <melaniekclarke at gmail.com>
c: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
ent: Sun, January 2, 2011 12:10:34 AM
ubject: Re: [pct-l] bear bagging
Hi Melanie
Here is the latest update from Ursack. I wish they would approve them. The 
eight difference is huge. I think the agencies managing the backcountry are not 
taking into account the hikers when making their decisions about what is 
cceptable food protection. Yes, a bear could probably get into an Ursack 
ventually. Do we need the 100% impenetrability of a rigid container? I don't 
hink so, but it's not up to me. I hung my food for many years without trouble. 
ll probably have a canister between KM and Echo Lakes, but it's not by choice. 

ttp://www.ursack.com/ursack-update.htm
I haven't yet decided to borrow, rent, or buy. I'm still hoping the Ursack will 
e approved for the small sections it's not yet allowed. What they aren't taking 
into consideration is how important my food is to me! They base their tests on 
llowing a bear unlimited attempts to get the food. When I hear the bear trying 
o get my food, you can be sure I will defend it! When I used to hang my food, I 
would put a pile of "bear rocks" next to me at night. I have yet to meet a bear 
hat thinks my food is worth getting pelted with rocks. They will just move on 
o an easier reward. Bears are big, but they still retreat when you throw 
tones. Now that I think about it, I bet that would work for pesky rangers 
sking about me bear can. ;) I'm kidding about that last part, but it does make 
 point. HEHE
I will reluctantly comply with the regulations, even if I don't like them. 

isspellings and typos brought to you by iPhone.
On Jan 1, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Melanie Clarke <melaniekclarke at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear PCT, or Chuck,

 Why is the Ursack illegal?  I loved the Ursack.

 Melanie

 On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 6:24 PM, CHUCK CHELIN <steeleye at wildblue.net> wrote:

> Good evening, Mike,
> 
> 
> 
> It is very rare to see any PCT hiker bag/hang food – anywhere.  Doing so is
> not allowed as a substitute for using an approved bear ‘can in designated
> areas.  The last time I bagged/hung food was on an Ontario canoe trip many
> years ago.  Usually I ditch the ‘can at Echo Summit south of Lake Tahoe,
> but
> once I did carry a non-approved Ursack for a while north of there because
> there were some curious bears in that general area.  Even then I didn't
> hoist it up; I just tethered it at ground level to a small tree.
> 
> 
> 
> On the remainder of the PCT north there are lots of bears but they keep
> their heads down and a hiker will be lucky to see one.
> 
> 
> 
> Steel-Eye
> 
> Hiking the Pct since before it was the PCT – 1965
> 
> http://www.trailjournals.com/steel-eye
> 
> http://www.trailjournals.com/SteelEye09
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Michael Pinkus <mikepinkus at hotmail.com
>> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Hi All,
>> So, bear cannisters are required on some parts of the trail, I'm assuming
>> that you bear bag it on the rest of the trail? I only ask this as I've
> never
>> read anything about it anywhere. We bear bag everywhere here in Canada
>> unless you are camping when they're hibernating.
>> 
>> anyone?
>> 
>> cheers,
>> Mike
>> 
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