[pct-l] hiker trash

[Stephen Clark]

Most aptly put.  I can attest to the slobby son syndrome. I have one too,
regardless of how hard I try. So as you say, "If you want it done your way,
do it yourself !"

You, Donna, are not a trail angel. *You* are a genuine "Trail Saint!"

Just Another Hiker On My Way To Canada - aka Quackers



On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Donna Saufley <dsaufley at sprynet.com> wrote:

> If you are going to host hikers, you are going to have hiker trash. I find
> the outrage about hikers behaving like human beings to be misplaced.  Any
> expectation that they are perfect models of cleanliness or consideration is
> flatly wrong. They are probably slobs in their own homes and in their
> mother's homes too.  My son has been a total slob in my home, despite my
> admonitions, though the Army helped him immensely in this regard.  For all
> we know the hikers' mothers or family are slobs.  My son has friends whose
> parents are hoarders and live in squalor.  How could their offspring have
> learned differently?
>
> Individuals tend to be more conscientious about leaving things neat and in
> order.  Groups are something else altogether.  Everyone thinks someone else
> is drinking that abandoned drink, or eating from that plate of food sitting
> on the table.  Oddly, they ARE being considerate of others by leaving it
> there. If you're lucky, there's someone in the group (typically young women
> but not always) who will take responsibility for cleaning up.  But you
> can't
> count on that. Some twenty-something kid's idea of clean and my idea of
> clean are definitely not the same.
>
> My dad had a saying that has helped me mentally in dealing with hiker and
> their trash:  if you want something done the way you want it done, you have
> to do it yourself. No one else knows what you want unless you instruct
> them.
> I don't have the time to train everyone that comes through on how I want
> things cleaned, so I've found it easier to handle cleaning myself.  The
> past
> few years I've had volunteers who've stayed during the season to help with
> the cleaning and laundry chores. They've been an absolute godsend.
>
> There is another popular saying that is also applicable:  if you can't
> stand
> the heat, get out of the kitchen.
>
> L-Rod
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net]
> On Behalf Of Charles Doersch
> Sent: Monday, June 06, 2011 4:37 PM
> To: jomike at cot.net
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] hiker trash
>
> Has anyone seen the film _Dogville_? It might relate, I think, to this
> question of some folks taking advantage of generosity and grace. I teach at
> the university, and an important challenge each year with my freshmen is
> teaching my students that as young adults they now live in a world where
> there are consequences. One way I can do that for them as a professor is to
> hold them accountable and not shelter them from the consequences of their
> behavior. I notice how little understanding some of my students have of
> consequences. They want to be treated as adults -- until they want to be
> "taken care of." No, I say, you can't have it both ways. Grace is
> reciprocal.
>
> I also recognize that as they pass through university, the best of them
> come
> to respect those who hold them accountable for their achievement, their
> successes, and for their failures. Some people just don't respect a kind
> and
> caring heart.
>
> I rather think the trail community hasn't "created" or fostered young men
> who don't have common courtesy -- perhaps, among the many grateful,
> gracious
> hikers on the PCT, there will inevitably and always be some who are
> attracted to folks who dole out goodies, and take advantage, as long as
> there are no consequences. So yes, PCT Mom, some of these guys and gals
> would indeed be (and are) slobs in their parents' homes. If they can get
> away with it.
>
> But, since I'm still a PCT virgin (2012 here we come), I have no
> constructive or practical insight, I think, on how there can be
> consequences. The PCT trail culture is still something I have only read
> about.
>
> ~Charles & the gang.
>
> On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 4:25 PM, <jomike at cot.net> wrote:
>
> > You wouldn't be a slob in your
> > Mom's or Gramma's house. Don't do it out here.
> >
> > PCT MOM
> > ---------------------------------------------
> >
> > You're more of an optimist than I about this issue...I believe they would
> > be just as inappropriate, by our standards, at their family's homes. I
> think
> > "we", the trail community at large, have created mainly young men who do
> > feel they are some how above what we'd call common courtesy. There is
> > absolutely no denying that they will have accomplished something very few
> > people can/will do, none-the-less, it exempts them from nothing. They
> should
> > not feel exempt from trail work, thank you, LNT ethics, and to simply
> > cleaning up after themselves.
> >
> > E-gads, I'm sounding old! (but I believe accurate)
> >
> > are we there yet
> >
> >
> > ...going to the mountains is going home.
> >
> > John Muir
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