[pct-l] Starting Mileage

[Dan Engleman]

I hiked the trail, this past season and I did 20s "right out of the gate," not because I had to but because I wanted to.  I think the "myth" you are speaking of comes about in part because (in a normal year) the first 20 miles does not have a lot of options for refilling your water supply.  Many of the seasonal streams dry up fairly quickly, so being able to do 20 miles on day one is a big plus.  I think a lot of people try to get from the border to Lake Morena Campground, which is were the ADZPCTKO (kickoff weekend) is held.  
 
If you are not used to hiking in desert heat then I would plan on carrying lots of water and perhaps figure out a dinner option that doesn't use up what little water you have left; you should be able to hike to a water source on day two with no problem.
 
Dan Engleman


________________________________
From: Nathan <nathanfrank2 at gmail.com>
To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Starting Mileage

Is it true that you have to bust out of the gate pulling 20s or is that a myth? What'd all you former thrus start with?

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 10, 2011, at 1:00 PM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:

> Send Pct-L mailing list submissions to
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> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>  1. Re: Pct-L Digest, Vol 47, Issue 9 (Andy Johnson)
>  2. Re: Tarptent contrail (Alicia Reenders)
>  3. Re: Pct-L Digest, Vol 47, Issue 5 (Halmargolis at aol.com)
>  4. Carrying weapons (Kellie Morrill)
>  5. Food (patrick white )
>  6. Re: Carrying weapons (Sir Mixalot)
>  7. Re: Food (Sir Mixalot)
>  8. Re: Carrying weapons (Scott Bryce)
>  9. Re: Carrying weapons (Jackie McDonnell)
>  10. Re: Carrying weapons (Brick Robbins)
>  11. Re: Carrying weapons (Andrea Dinsmore)
>  12. Re: Day pack recommendation? (Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes)
>  13. Re: Carrying weapons (Charles Doersch)
>  14. Re: Carrying weapons (ecpg at peoplepc.com)
>  15. Re: Carrying weapons (ecpg at peoplepc.com)
>  16. Re: Food (Brick Robbins)
>  17. Re: Carrying weapons (Scott Williams)
>  18. Hike My Hike, Damn It!  Revised 2011 Edition (Paul Magnanti)
>  19.  Carrying weapons (J. Michael Hanssen)
>  20. Re: Carrying weapons (Jim & Jane Moody)
>  21. Re: Carrying weapons (Scott Williams)
>  22. Re: Carrying weapons (Jim & Jane Moody)
>  23. Re: Carrying weapons (Bob Bankhead)
>  24. Re: Carrying weapons (Scott Williams)
>  25. Re: Carrying weapons (Edward Anderson)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 12:44:19 -0600
> From: "Andy Johnson" <andyj92 at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 47, Issue 9
> To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <A202F3B8284D4AA38153B9D8EA99BC87 at PC281852920013>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>    reply-type=original
> 
> I solved my waer problem by getting a large- one gallon- jug that is used by 
> medical community to hold water and laxitive to clean out patent before 
> colonoscopy... It is large, has a screw top and has a -big- handle.  That's 
> the key for me as I have big hands and milk-water jugs have only a two 
> finger handle. That begins to cut after a while. Full handle uses whol hand 
> and arm.
> 
> I covered it with colored duct tape and carried for many hundred miles. I 
> found the weight helped use my shoulders and arms vs putting all the weight 
> on my back. I'm not a fan of camelbacks etc.
> 
> I am often amazed at those who discount the availability and potability of 
> water as they travel far from the parking lot. Long distance people respect 
> water.  Day trippers and section hikers can get in trouble easily.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 07:04:34 -0500
> From: Alicia Reenders <a.reenders at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Tarptent contrail
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
>    <CANAXtuCe1TgKyoNubG3urW8hYO4rh5WffzSHe-1BrGQOE+U8Wg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> My boyfriend used the contrail on an AT thru-hike and loved it as well. The
> only issue was what any single wall tent will have: when it gets soaked in
> the rain, there's no way to separate the main body to keep it dry. Unless
> you dry it out, it will be soaked inside when you set it up, and unless you
> want to dry it out, so will all your gear. This is tough when it rains for
> a few days in a row. Probably you will be pretty wet either way, but a tent
> with separate fly is a little better for that.
> 
> We will be using the Fly Creek 2 on our PCT hike next year. A double
> walled, semi-free standing 2 person tent weighs 2 lbs. tight, but we fit.
> Anyone use this on the PCT yet? They were everywhere on the AT.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 16:41:02 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Halmargolis at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 47, Issue 5
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <13eac.337a0e2f.3be6f95e at aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
> 
> Hi Neil,
> 
> Interested in the split pea mix.
> Cooked it from Campo to Manning Park.
> But it's got to be flaked, not in powder form.
> If so, I offer to buy it for $40.
> 
> Let me know and I'll send you a check.
> 
> Hal "Green Hornet" Margolis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a message dated 11/5/2011 10:00:18 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
> pct-l-request at backcountry.net writes:
> 
> Send  Pct-L mailing list submissions to
> pct-l at backcountry.net
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide  Web, visit
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> or, via email, send a  message with subject or body 'help' to
> pct-l-request at backcountry.net
> 
> You can reach the person managing the  list at
> pct-l-owner at backcountry.net
> 
> When replying,  please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of  Pct-L digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
> 1. Re:  PocketMail and Solio Charger (chiefcowboy at verizon.net)
> 2.  Wolves on the Oregon PCT? (ruffwork)
> 3. Re: Wolves on the  Oregon PCT? (Charles Doersch)
> 4. Re: Wolves on the Oregon PCT?  (Brick Robbins)
> 5. Re: Wolves on the Oregon PCT? (Charles  Doersch)
> 6. Gear Sale (neil p.)
> 7.  Wolves on the Oregon PCT? (Reinhold Metzger)
> 8. Re: Wolves on  the Oregon PCT? (Charles  Doersch)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message:  1
> Date: Fri, 04 Nov 2011 10:09:16 -0700
> From:  <chiefcowboy at verizon.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] PocketMail and Solio  Charger
> To: "tom aterno" <nitnoid1 at yahoo.com>,    <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:  <8C840AD70201474593557E35C1ACA5D8 at RonPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain;  format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
> reply-type=original
> 
> I, too, had heard they were going out.  So, my  pocket composer is extinct 
> and won't work in any event?  Too bad, I  enjoyed using it.  It was a great 
> device.
> 
> -----Original  Message----- 
> From: tom aterno
> Sent: Friday, November 04, 2011 9:15  AM
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] PocketMail and Solio  Charger
> 
> Pocketmail is still in business.  Looks like the acoustic  modem device is 
> gone, replaced by a wifi  device.
> 
> http://www.pocketmail.com/
> 
> 
> The Incredible  Bulk
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Jackie McDonnell  <yogihikes at gmail.com>
> To: Erik Turnberg  <erik.turnberg at gmail.com>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Sent: Friday,  November 4, 2011 11:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] PocketMail and Solio  Charger
> 
> I'm pretty sure Pocketmail went out of  business.
> 
> Yogi
> www.pcthandbook.com
> 
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at  10:43 AM, Erik Turnberg 
> <erik.turnberg at gmail.com>wrote:
> 
>> Is anyone interested in a PocketMail Composer?  This is a device my  wife
>> and I used on AT thru hikes to send and receive email.  It  is able to 
> send
>> email over a land line by generating audio  tones.
>> 
>> We also have a Solio Charger from our PCT hike with  tips to charge ipods,
>> iphones, and a kindle, as well as all the  original tips.
>> 
>> We would like to see these go to someone who  would use them.
>> _______________________________________________
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> _______________________________________________
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> All content is  copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is is prohibited  without express permission.  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date:  Fri, 4 Nov 2011 10:29:02 -0700
> From: ruffwork  <ruffwork at ruffwork.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Wolves on the Oregon  PCT?
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:  <3A6D6D18-ECF7-4A08-8C2A-229558BC1F47 at ruffwork.com>
> Content-Type:  text/plain;    charset=us-ascii
> 
> A wolf from NE Oregon has  been spotted in Western Oregon, so had to cross 
> the PCT to get  there...
> Experts say if this tagged one made it other untagged ones most  likely 
> have  too...
> 
> http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2011/11/wolf_vent
> ures_over_cascades_in.html
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message:  3
> Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 11:50:54 -0600
> From: Charles Doersch  <charles.doersch at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Wolves on the Oregon  PCT?
> To: ruffwork <ruffwork at ruffwork.com>
> Cc:  pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <CADH_B_gd7ja3B8SD5JmeYiMb7bNeQP5QbssqG4rdy6z=m5Ht_w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type:  text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> How delightful. I've loved backpacking  with wolves around -- in Alaska and
> in Canada. Here's hoping they establish  themselves in the Cascades again.
> Yay.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> ~Charles  Doersch
> 
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 11:29 AM, ruffwork  <ruffwork at ruffwork.com> wrote:
> 
>> A wolf from NE Oregon has  been spotted in Western Oregon, so had to cross
>> the PCT to get  there...
>> Experts say if this tagged one made it other untagged ones  most likely
>> have too...
>> 
>> 
>> 
> http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2011/11/wolf_ventures_over_cascades_in.html
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing  list
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>> To unsubcribe, or change options  visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List  Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All  content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is is  prohibited without express  permission.
>> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message:  4
> Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 17:47:39 -0700
> From: Brick Robbins  <brick at brickrobbins.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Wolves on the Oregon  PCT?
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <CALV1Nz=6rPtHOXF-UviV5svpeWhEqENAceHDHznLbgzFKMkDjQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type:  text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 10:29 AM,  ruffwork <ruffwork at ruffwork.com> wrote:
>> A wolf from NE Oregon  has been spotted in Western Oregon, so had to 
> cross the PCT to get  there...
>> Experts say if this tagged one made it other untagged ones  most likely 
> have too...
>> 
>> 
> http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2011/11/wolf_ventures_over_cascades_in.html
> 
> 
> I  can't wait till Grizzlies show up on the  PCT
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri,  4 Nov 2011 18:59:30 -0600
> From: Charles Doersch  <charles.doersch at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Wolves on the Oregon  PCT?
> To: Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com>
> Cc:  pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <CADH_B_gmxs8weJkpHOqDsUwv3NeExb841jSQP9fSEN=CMcbvmg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type:  text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> A dream to have grizz on the PCT -- or  back here in Colorado again. *sigh*
> :-)
> 
> Of course,  some folks would howl about it -- but I never felt entitled to
> the  wilderness or the wilds as a kind of picturesque safe &  sound
> playground. I like my wilds with teeth in it. And I get along fine  that 
> way.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> ~C
> 
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 6:47 PM,  Brick Robbins 
> <brick at brickrobbins.com>wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, Nov 4,  2011 at 10:29 AM, ruffwork <ruffwork at ruffwork.com> wrote:
>>> A  wolf from NE Oregon has been spotted in Western Oregon, so had to
>> cross the PCT to get there...
>>> Experts say if this tagged one made  it other untagged ones most likely
>> have too...
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2011/11/wolf_ventures_over_cascades_in.html
>> 
>> 
>> I can't wait till Grizzlies show up on the PCT
>> _______________________________________________
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>> List  Archives:
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>> All  content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is is  prohibited without express  permission.
>> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message:  6
> Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 00:54:10 -0700
> From: "neil p."  <neildpetersen at gmail.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Gear Sale
> To: pct-l  <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <CAAcqipJfNdt-VDJnyAOrvY7YUPJ=Nt9A3dq-Cue1qDO1cftGCw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type:  text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Hey folks, I am moving and have several  pieces of gear for sale. I will
> include shipping in all prices and will  accept the best offer. Thanks -
> Queso
> 
> -10lb box of dehydrated  vegetarian black bean soup mix (I use just like
> re-fried beans)  =  $40
> -10lb box of dehydrated vegetarian split pea soup mix  =  $40
> -Gossamer Gear light speed 4 trekking poles (pair), used  but still in good
> shape. one pole the bottom half is brand new =  $120
> -ULA one size fits all pack cover (orange) =  $20
> -Steripen  classic, used but still in good shape with case =  $45
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Sat,  05 Nov 2011 02:03:05 -0700
> From: Reinhold Metzger  <reinholdmetzger at cox.net>
> Subject: [pct-l]  Wolves on the Oregon  PCT?
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:  <4EB4FBC9.3050709 at cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;  charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Say Charles,
> I LIKE MY WOMEN THAT  WAY.
> 
> I don't about the grizz.....those flesh eating, hiker stalking  beasts 
> have big teeth and long claws and have been known to eat a hiker or  two.
> 
> JMT Reinhold
> Your trail companion who likes his women with  teeth
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> A  dream to have grizz on the PCT -- or back here in Colorado again. 
> *sigh*  :-)
> Of course, some folks would howl about it -- but I never felt entitled  
> to the wilderness or the wilds as a kind of picturesque safe & sound  
> playground.
> I like my wilds with teeth in it.
> And I get along fine  that way.
> Cheers, ~C
> --------------------------------------------
> On  Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 6:47 PM, Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com  
> <http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>>wrote:  /
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 10:29 AM, ruffwork <ruffwork at ruffwork.com  
> <http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>> wrote:  //
> A wolf from NE Oregon has been spotted in Western Oregon, so had to  
> //cross the PCT to get there... //Experts say if this tagged one made it  
> other untagged ones most likely //have too...  
> ////http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2011/11/wolf_
> ventures_over_cascades_in.html
> 
> //I  can't wait till Grizzlies show up on the  PCT///
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date:  Sat, 5 Nov 2011 08:14:57 -0600
> From: Charles Doersch  <charles.doersch at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Wolves on the Oregon  PCT?
> To: Reinhold Metzger <reinholdmetzger at cox.net>
> Cc:  pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <CADH_B_iZTjAORZUBk3XG08SP2y2r8Ma_TeQA+dSz_cW5WHAA4g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type:  text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Oh, I don't know, Herr Metzger. I think  statistically grizz and wolves
> can't hold a candle to men and women  relating badly badly when it comes to
> their life-disemboweling potential.  In fact, I thought you were referring
> to men and/or women when you said:  "those flesh-eating, hiker-stalking
> beasts have big teeth and long claws  and have been known to eat a hiker or
> two."
> 
> But hey, one or two  hikers in a season or a decade is a statistical
> irrelevance when it comes  to grizz. Driving to the trailhead we are running
> a 1 in 458 chance of a  fatal collision -- as we do each time we hitchhike
> into town for resupply.  Once we're in grizz territory we have a 1 in 50,000
> chance of even getting  (at most) a dirty look from grizz. This is, of
> course, in stark contrast to  the chances a grizzled hiker such as yourself
> might have, say, along the  PCT at a bar in a re-supply town snuffling
> around for the evening's prey.  Lots of dirty looks that night, one might
> imagine. And the danger of a  fatality might be higher than you think.
> Caveat  grizzler.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Charles & the Boys,
> Your trail  companions-to-be in 2012, who get along fine with carnivores,
> omnivores,  herbivores, piscivores, fructivores, insectivores, and
> freeze-dried-ivores  of nearly all  stripes.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> 
> All  content is copyrighted by the respective authors. 
> Reproduction is is  prohibited without express permission.
> 
> End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 47,  Issue  5
> ************************************
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2011 20:27:36 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Kellie Morrill <kelliemorrill at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Carrying weapons
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
>    <1320463656.50244.YahooMailClassic at web161911.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> Hi all,
> ?
> I'm a single female hiking the PCT in 2012 and?have had a few folks recommend I carry a weapon (mainly, a gun). I'm opposed to this, but want to get the opinion of other hikers.
> ?
> Would you or do you carry a weapon? 
> ?
> Other single women hikers, what do you carry if you carry anything?
> ?
> Happy hiking!
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2011 21:56:42 +0000
> From: "patrick white " <patsy805 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Food
> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net " <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <SNT123-DS214556F4C15D2B147B2ACE9DD90 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15"
> 
> Are most people mailing their food to twenty or so spots? I would like to avoid this for the shipping aspect any suggestions?
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 14:37:53 -0800
> From: Sir Mixalot <atetuna at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Carrying weapons
> To: Kellie Morrill <kelliemorrill at yahoo.com>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
>    <CAKhNvBXZrYS1BMPMsa0XUMgsNMccBH5iZnyCq19GKzEcJuRw1w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Let's do this first...
> 
> Have you done a longish hike, say 3-5 days at 20 miles a day with a thru
> hiking load plus that gun and felt great at the end of the hike?  No
> blisters, no soreness, no injuries.  If that's the case, it might be worth
> expanding the discussion.  If that's not the case, you'll quickly be asking
> yourself if that gun is worth the agony of carrying it.
> 
> 
> On Fri, Nov 4, 2011 at 8:27 PM, Kellie Morrill <kelliemorrill at yahoo.com>wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I'm a single female hiking the PCT in 2012 and have had a few folks
>> recommend I carry a weapon (mainly, a gun). I'm opposed to this, but want
>> to get the opinion of other hikers.
>> 
>> Would you or do you carry a weapon?
>> 
>> Other single women hikers, what do you carry if you carry anything?
>> 
>> Happy hiking!
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
>> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 14:40:33 -0800
> From: Sir Mixalot <atetuna at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Food
> To: patrick white <patsy805 at hotmail.com>
> Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
>    <CAKhNvBVLzAg9sijuHfVYcLgZ40HOmH8R4TzZgNJpMzu6DJ0iyQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
>> From those I've talked to, the reason to stick with mail drops is because
> of a special diet that can't easily be found in grocery stores along the
> trail.  If you can easily eat anything in very large quantities while
> hiking thru hiking miles, then there's little reason to do mail drops
> throughout your hike.
> 
> On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:56 PM, patrick white <patsy805 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Are most people mailing their food to twenty or so spots? I would like to
>> avoid this for the shipping aspect any suggestions?
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
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>> 
>> List Archives:
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>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
>> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2011 15:44:12 -0700
> From: Scott Bryce <sbryce at scottbryce.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Carrying weapons
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <4EBB023C.8080600 at scottbryce.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> On 11/4/2011 9:27 PM, Kellie Morrill wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I'm a single female hiking the PCT in 2012 and have had a few folks
>> recommend I carry a weapon (mainly, a gun). I'm opposed to this, but
>> want to get the opinion of other hikers.
>> 
>> Would you or do you carry a weapon?
> 
> We have this discussion on here about once a year.
> 
> While I am not opposed to people carrying a weapon for self protection,
> carrying one on the PCT does not make sense. It is a lot of weight for
> something you are not likely to need. If you do carry one, you will need
> to have it handy at all times to be of any use. This isn't practical
> when carrying a backpack. Also, there will be places along the PCT where
> carrying a gun will be illegal. And DON'T try to carry a gun into Canada!
> 
> If you stay alert and use common sense precautions, you will be fine.
> Don't camp close to roads. Try not to hitchhike alone. If a situation
> feels wrong, don't go there.
> 
> You will be safer on the trail than you would be in the city.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 14:53:05 -0800 (PST)
> From: Jackie McDonnell <yogihikes at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Carrying weapons
> To: kelliemorrill at yahoo.com, pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
>    <6373283.10518.1320879185141.JavaMail.txtblapp at ip-10-250-7-192.ec2.internal>
>    
> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8
> 
> Uh-oh.  What's next?  Dogs or bear canisters?
> 
> Yogi
> www.pcthandbook.com
> 
> *** Sent on the go from my PEEK ***
> -------------------------------------
> Kellie Morrill<kelliemorrill at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm a single female hiking the PCT in 2012 and have had a few folks recommend I carry a weapon (mainly, a gun). I'm opposed to this, but want to get the opinion of other hikers.
> 
> Would you or do you carry a weapon? 
> 
> Other single women hikers, what do you carry if you carry anything?
> 
> Happy hiking!
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> 
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. 
> Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 15:01:38 -0800
> From: Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Carrying weapons
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
>    <CALV1Nzn-xd_AyOThiMyYWTQ082JABfBhUrnZsfYo4d1h97aBoQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 2:44 PM, Scott Bryce <sbryce at scottbryce.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 11/4/2011 9:27 PM, Kellie Morrill wrote:
>>> Would you or do you carry a weapon?
>> 
>> We have this discussion on here about once a year.
>> 
>> 
> This will give you a search for some of the previous threads on this topic
> 
> http://goo.gl/32ZaZ
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 11
> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 15:41:42 -0800
> From: Andrea Dinsmore <andrea at dinsmoreshikerhaven.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Carrying weapons
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
>    <CAD=4stF76oeHdgxivkzmA-d7kGMXxWthAiXXsuphceV0C_LqEg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> I got the problem solved. Put a pack on the dog and have him carry the gun.
> 
> PCT MOM
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 12
> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 17:02:10 -0800
> From: Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes <diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Day pack recommendation?
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
>    <F95E47F2-06E7-413D-AA36-47E9163849E1 at santabarbarahikes.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
> 
> If all you need to carry is 3L of water you can get a Camelback  
> hydration pack for that. I'm guessing you want to carry around 9  
> liters or something? Maybe toss in some water treatment and practice  
> getting used to using it.
> 
> Diane
> 
> On Nov 9, 2011, at 10:00 AM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:
> 
>> Would anyone happen to know of a good day pack that can be used for,
>> say, an adventure in the local mountains? Ideally something that has
>> some capacity, as I drink like a fish and easily go through 3 L of
>> water in less than 10 mi.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 13
> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 18:04:24 -0700
> From: Charles Doersch <charles.doersch at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Carrying weapons
> To: Andrea Dinsmore <andrea at dinsmoreshikerhaven.com>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
>    <CADH_B_g3xdKhaM1OEokCmUTv=FnSh1PVSA+59=umK3MBgqvo3Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Of course, women veterans of the PCT are going to have the most
> authoritative voice on this and will share based on actual experience,
> rather than supposition or opinions. I'd like to simply offer perspective
> from my travels among mighty women travelers.
> 
> It does seem to me that in the US we have fostered a quite exaggerated view
> of women's vulnerability to harm and to risk while traveling.
> 
> Granted, it seems to me self-evident (and the research backs it up) that in
> numerous ways, US women are at the forefront worldwide of re-imagining and
> re-defining what women do and are (e.g. the US has many women truck
> drivers, not something the French do; and women construction workers, not
> something even German women do; the Swiss have more women PhDs, but US
> women are catching up, etc.). But all across Africa, Asia, and in the South
> Pacific, we were always encountering women who travel the world alone --
> and those women were not Americans. They were Europeans (Scandinavians,
> Dutch, Swiss, French & Germans, often) or Aussies or Kiwis. And they
> weren't packing heat.
> 
> Inside our borders, we tell our daughters they can conquer the world. But
> we tell them not to travel alone outside our borders (or not to travel
> without men).
> 
> Now in my mid-50s, I have known many many women who have traveled alone in
> far more sketchy regions than, well, Oregon (e.g. up the Nile -- down the
> Congo -- across the Amazon) and by using their wits and their good judgment
> have fared fabulously. I have met the occasional men and women who have
> fared less fab here and abroad through bad judgment. And a gun would have
> only made it worse. (bad judgment + gun = bad).
> 
> All my women adventurers tell me they have had to unlearn the counsels of
> fear whispered into their ears by American media and sometimes by their own
> families ... they have had to unlearn what would have weakened them. And
> if, as Yogi has quoted that " Weight is the fear we carry" -- then guns are
> definitely fear that is carried. Fear is a toxin eroding our joy, our
> peace, and love. Of this I am convinced.
> 
> One of our buddies is in her late 60s and could tell you the most fantastic
> stories of all her many many travels in the most remote corners of the
> world. She just doesn't do the stupid (hang out at a bar getting drunk
> alone in a bad part of town, etc.) And we just saw her off to Chile ...
> she's on her way down for another kayak camping trek in Patagonia ...
> alone. Oh, she'll probably decide on some handsome Chilean guide whom
> she'll hire along the way (white-haired cougar that she is) ...  or not.
> We'll see.
> 
> :-D
> 
> Go in peace.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Charles & the Gang.
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 4:41 PM, Andrea Dinsmore <
> andrea at dinsmoreshikerhaven.com> wrote:
> 
>> I got the problem solved. Put a pack on the dog and have him carry the gun.
>> 
>> PCT MOM
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
>> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 14
> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 18:13:54 -0800
> From: <ecpg at peoplepc.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Carrying weapons
> To: "Charles Doersch" <charles.doersch at gmail.com>,    "Andrea Dinsmore"
>    <andrea at dinsmoreshikerhaven.com>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <C445CAB4C588498CA912789EF3581C45 at userPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>    reply-type=original
> 
> I carry a gun when I pack with animals, mostly because the only humane way 
> to dispactch an injured animal is to shot it.
> 
> 
> So I have carried a gun a lot of  the time I have packed. Not one time did I 
> ever get in a situation where it would have been a good idea to pull it out 
> for anything but that.
> 
> I kept it in the bottom of my pack and never let anyone know it was there. I 
> never hit any bad situations where it would have made a difference to the 
> outcome.
> 
> I would not recommend it unless you have animals.
> 
> Carolyn Eddy
> "Sweet Goat Mama" 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 15
> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 18:17:53 -0800
> From: <ecpg at peoplepc.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Carrying weapons
> To: "Kellie Morrill" <kelliemorrill at yahoo.com>,
>    <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <037B950A01C9459A961906D61E722933 at userPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>    reply-type=original
> 
> I'm big on a pepper spray product called Halt. It's for bicyclists and puts 
> out a stream rather than a mist so you can aim it directly into someone's 
> face. I like this much better than a gun. Smaller, doesn't weigh much and 
> works almost as well.
> 
> Carolyn Eddy
> "Sweet Goat Mama" 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 16
> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 18:41:35 -0800
> From: Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Food
> To: patrick white <patsy805 at hotmail.com>
> Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
>    <CALV1NznPaHNORGF2D4dVd-pVfNvEd9iFhWTD689M1VUW1ZOd=A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 1:56 PM, patrick white <patsy805 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Are most people mailing their food to twenty or so spots? I would like to
>> avoid this for the shipping aspect any suggestions?
>> 
> 
> Search the archives for "buy as you go"
> 
> This link will do that search for you
> http://goo.gl/IAzbu
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 17
> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 19:16:43 -0800
> From: Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Carrying weapons
> To: ecpg at peoplepc.com
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net, Kellie Morrill <kelliemorrill at yahoo.com>
> Message-ID:
>    <CAGxcj13B72C2DosB_fNKaCTAkgT9d7pXkDpdUoCY21E7JP7Vvw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> I'm a retired probation officer and was a member of, or ran our felony
> investigations unit for 15 years in my 30 years on the job.  Every felony
> committed in our county came across my desk if their was a suspect charged
> by the DA.  Thousands and thousands of crimes, many against women, almost
> everyone of them occurred in a city, or in the parking lots of our Regional
> Parks.  I can't recall one occurring "on trail" that wasn't a city trail.
> The notion that women are unsafe in the wilderness seems to come from the
> tremendous press that the very isolated weird cases get over the years.
> People tend to forget the thousands of rapes and hundreds of murders in
> Oakland, Berkeley, SF and the surrounding suburbs, but can tell you of the
> trail side killer in Marin many years ago.  That case got press, and stays
> in folks minds, the mundane, very real threat of crime in town, on the
> streets, in shops and homes, goes almost unnoticed it is so common.
> 
> You are much, much safer on any wilderness trail than you have ever been at
> home or in whatever town you live in across the country, because that is
> where crimes are routinely committed, not in the wilderness.  If you feel
> the need to carry a gun for protection, wear it on the street, in the
> restaurant you have dinner in, and at home, home invasions are way more
> common than trail side stranglers.  My point is that if you don't carry a
> gun at home, you certainly don't need one on the PCT.
> 
> That being said, I am always careful when leaving trail to see who is in
> the trail head parking lots, and I don't camp near roads.  Stealth camp,
> not from bears, but from marauding drunks near towns and campgrounds.  And
> try to hitch with friends.
> 
> If you begin alone, but are a social person, you will quickly meet friends.
> Rely on them, come into town with them.  Hiking in a group is fun and even
> safer than on your own, in case you get injured.  The statistics are just
> not weighted toward needing a gun on trail.
> 
> Shroomer
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 18
> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 21:22:38 -0800 (PST)
> From: Paul Magnanti <pmags at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Hike My Hike, Damn It!  Revised 2011 Edition
> To: PCT MailingList <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
>    <1320902558.74009.YahooMailNeo at web112116.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> http://www.pmags.com/hike-my-hike-damn-it-hmhdi
> 
> Don't HYOH....HMHDI!
> 
> 
> :)
> 
> ?
> ----------------------------
> Paul "Mags" Magnanti
> http://www.pmags.com
> http://www.twitter.com/pmagsco
> http://www.facebook.com/pmags
> -------------------------------
> The true harvest of my life is intangible.... a little stardust 
> caught, a portion of the rainbow I have clutched
> --Thoreau
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 19
> Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2011 19:47:05 -1000
> From: J. Michael Hanssen <mhanssen at hawaii.rr.com>
> Subject: [pct-l]  Carrying weapons
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <E88A2E10-E561-4C79-AF49-56DAA863D355 at hawaii.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=US-ASCII;    format=flowed;    delsp=yes
> 
> Even better.....put the gun in the bear canister, the canister in the  
> dog's pack and then leave the dog, pack, canister and gun at home.
> Aloha, speedbump
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 20
> Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 14:47:34 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Carrying weapons
> To: Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net, Kellie Morrill <kelliemorrill at yahoo.com>
> Message-ID:
>    <1701441865.1882731.1320936454180.JavaMail.root at sz0094a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
>    
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> 
> 
> I discovered that if I hiked with Shroomer, I didn't need a gun.? 
> 
> Mango 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> 
> 
> From: "Scott Williams" <baidarker at gmail.com> 
> To: ecpg at peoplepc.com 
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net, "Kellie Morrill" <kelliemorrill at yahoo.com> 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 9, 2011 10:16:43 PM 
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Carrying weapons 
> 
> I'm a retired probation officer and was a member of, or ran our felony 
> investigations unit for 15 years in my 30 years on the job. ?Every felony 
> committed in our county came across my desk if their was a suspect charged 
> by the DA. ?Thousands and thousands of crimes, many against women, almost 
> everyone of them occurred in a city, or in the parking lots of our Regional 
> Parks. ?I can't recall one occurring "on trail" that wasn't a city trail. 
> ?The notion that women are unsafe in the wilderness seems to come from the 
> tremendous press that the very isolated weird cases get over the years. 
> ?People tend to forget the thousands of rapes and hundreds of murders in 
> Oakland, Berkeley, SF and the surrounding suburbs, but can tell you of the 
> trail side killer in Marin many years ago. ?That case got press, and stays 
> in folks minds, the mundane, very real threat of crime in town, on the 
> streets, in shops and homes, goes almost unnoticed it is so common. 
> 
> You are much, much safer on any wilderness trail than you have ever been at 
> home or in whatever town you live in across the country, because that is 
> where crimes are routinely committed, not in the wilderness. ?If you feel 
> the need to carry a gun for protection, wear it on the street, in the 
> restaurant you have dinner in, and at home, home invasions are way more 
> common than trail side stranglers. ?My point is that if you don't carry a 
> gun at home, you certainly don't need one on the PCT. 
> 
> That being said, I am always careful when leaving trail to see who is in 
> the trail head parking lots, and I don't camp near roads. ?Stealth camp, 
> not from bears, but from marauding drunks near towns and campgrounds. ?And 
> try to hitch with friends. 
> 
> If you begin alone, but are a social person, you will quickly meet friends. 
> ?Rely on them, come into town with them. ?Hiking in a group is fun and even 
> safer than on your own, in case you get injured. ?The statistics are just 
> not weighted toward needing a gun on trail. 
> 
> Shroomer 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Pct-L mailing list 
> Pct-L at backcountry.net 
> To unsubcribe, or change options visit: 
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l 
> 
> List Archives: 
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/ 
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors. 
> Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission. 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 21
> Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 07:33:28 -0800
> From: Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Carrying weapons
> To: "Jim & Jane Moody" <moodyjj at comcast.net>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net, Kellie Morrill <kelliemorrill at yahoo.com>
> Message-ID:
>    <CAGxcj10kMjOWC3kSHPtx+YgENJdT_csO_G6armiY4rv1FtaB7A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Mountain man like you Mango, hell I figured you were packin' and could
> shoot the eye out of a squirrel at a hundred yards!  You thought I was the
> security?  Man were we in trouble.
> 
> Shroomer
> 
> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 6:47 AM, Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net>wrote:
> 
>> I discovered that if I hiked with Shroomer, I didn't need a gun.
>> 
>> Mango
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> *From: *"Scott Williams" <baidarker at gmail.com>
>> *To: *ecpg at peoplepc.com
>> *Cc: *pct-l at backcountry.net, "Kellie Morrill" <kelliemorrill at yahoo.com>
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, November 9, 2011 10:16:43 PM
>> 
>> *Subject: *Re: [pct-l] Carrying weapons
>> 
>> I'm a retired probation officer and was a member of, or ran our felony
>> investigations unit for 15 years in my 30 years on the job.  Every felony
>> committed in our county came across my desk if their was a suspect charged
>> by the DA.  Thousands and thousands of crimes, many against women, almost
>> everyone of them occurred in a city, or in the parking lots of our Regional
>> Parks.  I can't recall one occurring "on trail" that wasn't a city trail.
>> The notion that women are unsafe in the wilderness seems to come from the
>> tremendous press that the very isolated weird cases get over the years.
>> People tend to forget the thousands of rapes and hundreds of murders in
>> Oakland, Berkeley, SF and the surrounding suburbs, but can tell you of the
>> trail side killer in Marin many years ago.  That case got press, and stays
>> in folks minds, the mundane, very real threat of crime in town, on the
>> streets, in shops and homes, goes almost unnoticed it is so common.
>> 
>> You are much, much safer on any wilderness trail than you have ever been at
>> home or in whatever town you live in across the country, because that is
>> where crimes are routinely committed, not in the wilderness.  If you feel
>> the need to carry a gun for protection, wear it on the street, in the
>> restaurant you have dinner in, and at home, home invasions are way more
>> common than trail side stranglers.  My point is that if you don't carry a
>> gun at home, you certainly don't need one on the PCT.
>> 
>> That being said, I am always careful when leaving trail to see who is in
>> the trail head parking lots, and I don't camp near roads.  Stealth camp,
>> not from bears, but from marauding drunks near towns and campgrounds.  And
>> try to hitch with friends.
>> 
>> If you begin alone, but are a social person, you will quickly meet friends.
>> Rely on them, come into town with them.  Hiking in a group is fun and even
>> safer than on your own, in case you get injured.  The statistics are just
>> not weighted toward needing a gun on trail.
>> 
>> Shroomer
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>> 
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is is prohibited without express permission.
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 22
> Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:46:07 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Carrying weapons
> To: Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
>    <1285619071.1886877.1320939967470.JavaMail.root at sz0094a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
>    
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> 
> 
> Shroomer, 
> 
> In all seriousness, one angle on carrying a gun that I haven't seen discussed on the pct-list (but have seen on Whiteblaze.net) is that in any kind of tense situation, once a gun is pulled out, that situation isn't going to be resolved by talking it out and everybody calming down.? Once a gun is pulled out, you're likely to push the tension up so that the gun gets fired, with bad consequences for at least two people. 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, on the PCT, if you run into drug traffickers, they're guaranteed to have more firepower than you'll have, and much less reservation about blowing you away if you pull out a pis tol. 
> 
> 
> 
> All in all, no good reason to carry a gun.? And lots of good re asons not to.?? 
> 
> 
> Mango 
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. Do you want the squirrel shot in the left eye or the right eye? 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> 
> 
> From: "Scott Williams" <baidarker at gmail.com> 
> To: "Jim & Jane Moody" <moodyjj at comcast.net> 
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net, "Kellie Morrill" <kelliemorrill at yahoo.com>, ecpg at peoplepc.com 
> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 10:33:28 AM 
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Carrying weapons 
> 
> Mountain man like you Mango, hell I figured you were packin' and could shoot the eye out of a squirrel at a hundred yards! ?You thought I was the security? ?Man were we in trouble. 
> 
> 
> Shroomer 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 6:47 AM, Jim & Jane Moody < moodyjj at comcast.net > wrote: 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I discovered that if I hiked with Shroomer, I didn't need a gun.? 
> 
> Mango 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: "Scott Williams" < baidarker at gmail.com > 
> To: ecpg at peoplepc.com 
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net , "Kellie Morrill" < kelliemorrill at yahoo.com > 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 9, 2011 10:16:43 PM 
> 
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Carrying weapons 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a retired probation officer and was a member of, or ran our felony 
> investigations unit for 15 years in my 30 years on the job. ?Every felony 
> committed in our county came across my desk if their was a suspect charged 
> by the DA. ?Thousands and thousands of crimes, many against women, almost 
> everyone of them occurred in a city, or in the parking lots of our Regional 
> Parks. ?I can't recall one occurring "on trail" that wasn't a city trail. 
> ?The notion that women are unsafe in the wilderness seems to come from the 
> tremendous press that the very isolated weird cases get over the years. 
> ?People tend to forget the thousands of rapes and hundreds of murders in 
> Oakland, Berkeley, SF and the surrounding suburbs, but can tell you of the 
> trail side killer in Marin many years ago. ?That case got press, and stays 
> in folks minds, the mundane, very real threat of crime in town, on the 
> streets, in shops and homes, goes almost unnoticed it is so common. 
> 
> You are much, much safer on any wilderness trail than you have ever been at 
> home or in whatever town you live in across the country, because that is 
> where crimes are routinely committed, not in the wilderness. ?If you feel 
> the need to carry a gun for protection, wear it on the street, in the 
> restaurant you have dinner in, and at home, home invasions are way more 
> common than trail side stranglers. ?My point is that if you don't carry a 
> gun at home, you certainly don't need one on the PCT. 
> 
> That being said, I am always careful when leaving trail to see who is in 
> the trail head parking lots, and I don't camp near roads. ?Stealth camp, 
> not from bears, but from marauding drunks near towns and campgrounds. ?And 
> try to hitch with friends. 
> 
> If you begin alone, but are a social person, you will quickly meet friends. 
> ?Rely on them, come into town with them. ?Hiking in a group is fun and even 
> safer than on your own, in case you get injured. ?The statistics are just 
> not weighted toward needing a gun on trail. 
> 
> Shroomer 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 23
> Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 08:14:19 -0800
> From: "Bob Bankhead" <wandering_bob at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Carrying weapons
> To: "'Jim & Jane Moody'" <moodyjj at comcast.net>,    "'Scott Williams'"
>    <baidarker at gmail.com>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <002e01cc9fc3$cd2e6270$678b2750$@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="utf-8"
> 
> Know before you go. In every state in which you choose to carry a gun, know your responsibilities under the law regarding: 
> 
> - the use of deadly force 
> 
> - brandishing (or its equivalent) 
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you are a LEO, you do not have the right to display a weapon in what may be a perceived to be a threatening manner. That can include just exposing, reaching for,  or actually pointing it at or in the general direction of someone without the intent of actually shooting. States vary and it is your legal responsibility to know the laws. 
> 
> 
> As a former LEO, +1 to Mango's comment.
> 
> "In all seriousness, one angle on carrying a gun that I haven't seen discussed on the pct-list (but have seen on Whiteblaze.net) is that in any kind of tense situation, once a gun is pulled out, that situation isn't going to be resolved by talking it out and everybody calming down.  Once a gun is pulled out, you're likely to push the tension up so that the gun gets fired, with bad consequences for at least two people."
> 
> 
> Wandering Bob 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 24
> Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 08:14:41 -0800
> From: Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Carrying weapons
> To: "Jim & Jane Moody" <moodyjj at comcast.net>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
>    <CAGxcj10N5VGciKk-54k_-a8TCKjYTx3eK8cUTL7BdX43uhFhMg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Those are all important reasons not to pack a weapon Mango.  Most peace
> officers I know try to dissuade folks from carrying guns for protection
> because situations that might come to blows often go way beyond that when a
> weapon is involved.  Great points.
> 
> The right eye would be nice.
> 
> Shroomer
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 25
> Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2011 08:22:47 -0800 (PST)
> From: Edward Anderson <mendoridered at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Carrying weapons
> To: Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com>,    "pct-l at backcountry.net"
>    <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
>    <1320942167.66242.YahooMailNeo at web111612.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> I say, between the eyes is best.
> ?
> MendoRider
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com>
> To: Jim & Jane Moody <moodyjj at comcast.net>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 8:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Carrying weapons
> 
> Those are all important reasons not to pack a weapon Mango.? Most peace
> officers I know try to dissuade folks from carrying guns for protection
> because situations that might come to blows often go way beyond that when a
> weapon is involved.? Great points.
> 
> The right eye would be nice.
> 
> Shroomer
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> ------------------------------
> 
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> End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 47, Issue 10
> *************************************
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