[pct-l] Heavier Sleeping Bag versus Lighter Sleeping Bag & Extra Clothing

Fri Jan 6 09:00:30 CST 2012

I have been skeptical about switching to a quilt sleeping bag but after
reading this on Ray Jardine's website I am considering on giving a quilt
a try.  http://www.rayjardine.com/ray-way/Quilt-Kit/index.htm

I have copy/pasted a part of the linked web page below. 

Has anyone had the same problem of a down bag failing because of
moisture like Ray writes about below?  

Thanks for the post Chiefcowboy.  

Jim

Goose Down vs Synthetic insulation   

Goose Down

Why I recommend synthetic insulation over goose down

I was in high school when I bought my first down-filled sleeping bag.
The year was 1960 and the company that made the bag was Holubar. In
fact, Mrs. Holubar sewed this particular sleeping bag. And it sure was a
big improvement over my cotton filled bag. The down was the highest
quality prime northern goose down. Even so, after several years of
rigorous service it lost its loft and had to be thrown out.

In 1971 I designed and sewed together a two-person down-filled sleeping
bag. Working with goose down is an unbelievably messy experience. I used
this bag for a few years until it was stolen.

In 1987 Jenny and I hiked the PCT using a top-quality goose down
sleeping bag, unzipped and draped over the two of us. During this trip
the sleeping bag failed us twice. Both times were when the bag became
wet and lost its loft.

One of these failures occurred during an uncommonly heavy deluge in the
mountains of central Oregon. The main problem was not the rain, but our
tent which was trapping moisture and soaking everything inside -
including our down sleeping bag. For the first 24 hours we endured, but
as time slowly passed, and the temperature slowly dropped, our ever more
wet sleeping bag inexorably lost its loft. This was when we began to
worry. On the verge of hypothermia we packed up - in the pouring,
near-freezing rain - and resumed hiking.

Hiking in a storm with a soaking wet goose-down sleeping bag is
extremely dangerous. This is because one has no margins of safety.
Should the storm intensify and require making camp, one could not. The
wet and flattened sleeping bag would sap body warmth rather than
preserve it.

Many people have died in wet goose down sleeping bags, and I know of a
few of them. And yet companies making goose down products continue to
hype their wares, and to exaggerate their claims. Buyer, please beware!

Fortunately, Jenny and I were not too many miles from a road, and
managed to catch a ride into town.

In the final few weeks of that 4+ month hike, the goose down had lost so
much of its loft that it would not stay on top of us. It had so much
room to move about inside the nylon layers that every time we shifted,
so did the down - from off the top of us. We spent a lot of time shaking
the down back toward the center. And even then, the sleeping bag was no
longer warm.

Returning home we retired that sleeping bag, all $350 worth of it, and
kept it in a box for old times sake until finally throwing out.

Back at it again, in 1991 we hiked the PCT a second time, again starting
with a brand new, $350 goose down sleeping bag that finished the trip in
exactly the same inglorious fashion. But at least during this trip the
goose down failed us only once.

We were hiking in a storm in northern California, miles from nowhere.
Here again, the tent trapped moisture and soaked the sleeping bag, which
in turn lost its loft. Nevertheless, we broke camp and hiked all through
the next day. Towards evening we stopped to make camp, and in the rain
pitched the tent but could not crawl inside. The weather was very cold,
and we had no insulation to crawl into. Fortunately we were able to
start a campfire. Also fortunately we had sewn a large awning to our
tent. So under this we sat for a long while, trying to dry the wet
sleeping bag.

Not only is goose down quite useless when wet, because it goes flat as a
pancake, only in clumps, but down is extremely difficult and slow to
dry. So there we sat. The awning over us, which resembled a tarp, was a
great help. It sheltered the sleeping bag while we held the bag toward
the fire and its radiating warmth.

We managed to dry the sleeping bag just enough to safely go to sleep.
The night was anything but comfortable, but to our good fortune the
weather began to clear the following day.

After returning home and throwing that sleeping bag away, the next year,
1992, we again bought a new $350 goose down bag for a hike of the CDT.
We also replaced the tent, fitted it with an even larger awning over its
doorway, and cut away its entire front end - for much-needed
ventilation. This trip certainly had its moments, weather-wise, but the
sleeping bag at least survived, and although we have not used it since,
at least we still have it, even though it lost about half of its loft.

In 1993 we were preparing to hike the AT, but were in no moods to spend
yet another $350 on another down sleeping bag. So we made our first
"quilt" of synthetic insulation. This quilt proved remarkably easy to
make, compared with my ordeal of making the down sleeping bag many years
ago. And the quilt was very inexpensive. Yet it preformed a hundred
times better than down. We were still using the tent & awning, and many
times experienced heavy and prolonged downpours. We knew very well from
experience that the pervading moisture would have flattened a down
sleeping bag. But even though our synthetic quilt became quite
moisture-laden on several occasions, it stayed warm. Big difference!

In 1994 we hiked the PCT a third time, using a home-made quilt of
synthetic insulation. Once again the quilt was a big success.

Since that fifth long-distance hike we have made many long paddling
journeys in the Arctic, in addition to our IUA hike & bike, rowing
across the Atlantic, cycling across the U.S., kite skiing on the
Greenland Ice Cap, skiing to the South Pole, climbing Vinson Massif in
Antarctica, trekking in the Himalaya, mountaineering in Argentina, and
so forth - all with home-made synthetic insulation quilts.

We have learned, through much trial and error, the true disadvantages of
down insulation - and we are not taking any more chances with it.

Moreover, we like to think that thanks to our quilts made of synthetic
insulation there are a few geese out there with their precious down
still attached to their bodies rather than plucked as a commodity for
commercial gain.

-----Original Message-----
From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net
[mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net] On Behalf Of
chiefcowboy at verizon.net

Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 5:49 PM

To: Paul Bodnar; pct-L backcountry.net

Subject: Re: [pct-l] Heavier Sleeping Bag versus Lighter Sleeping Bag &
Extra Clothing

I use a Jardine quilt (1.5 pounds) and when it's really cold I add the
silk 

liner (4 ounces).  NEVER cold.

-----Original Message----- 

From: Paul Bodnar

Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 3:58 PM

To: pct-L backcountry.net

Subject: Re: [pct-l] Heavier Sleeping Bag versus Lighter Sleeping Bag & 

Extra Clothing

I prefer a 15 or 20 degree, high fill 800+, down bag.  Temperatures
rarely 

get down to 15 or 20 degrees along the PCT during a typical thru-hike
but 

having this extra warmth provides an additional level of comfort and
safety. 

Most thru-hikers will be using their sleeping bag for about nine to ten 

hours each day.  If you can't sleep because you are too cold you will
not 

get the rest you need to hike the 20+ mile days.  I feel that the extra 

ounces are worth it and in the event the temperature drops you will be
happy 

you have a slightly heavier bag.

Paul

Hikethru.com

PocketPCT

> Do you prefer having a heavier sleeping bag (say, a 15 or 20 degree

> bag) and only the lightest of clothing for when you are breaking

> camp.... or, do you prefer having a lighter sleeping bag (say, a 30

> degree bag) and than also having extra clothing (say for example, down

> legs and a heavier jacket) thereby giving you the ability to

> dual-purpose your clothing.

> 

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