[pct-l] Lightweighting microspikes?

Wed Mar 21 18:40:34 CDT 2012

Feasible, yes...safe, no.

A low snow year doesn't mean that there will be no snow all the way up to 
13,000 feet on Forester's north side in the months of May, June, and July 
during thru hiker season.

How much snow does it take to be unsafe? Any unpredictable snow surface 
condition on which you are uncertain of your balance or have insufficient 
"purchase" or traction with your desired footwear and adjuncts. Every season 
we record slip-and-falls on snow-covered traverses (they don't usually 
happen on the ascent, but on the traverse and descent) no matter the length 
of snow. All it takes is a short, steep berm over the trail on which you 
fall and slide into the rocks or trees on the downhill end and get hurt. All 
it takes is a nasty suncup with a soft bottom into which you posthole and 
tweak your knee, cut your leg on the rocks beneath, or get your ankle wedged 
into the rocks below.

Yes, it's feasible to not carry an ice axe or crampons. Many do quite 
successfully, but did they have the ability and/or training and/or past 
experience dealing with such conditions that enabled them to get through 
without being placed in a hazardous situation? Yes, you can learn along the 
way (sometimes after sorrow and suffering). Yes, you can avoid many snow 
fields and patches, thus the need for the axe and crampons. Can you say for 
certain that you will never encounter snow? Can you say for certain that you 
will know what to do to get across without a slip, a poorly or hastily 
placed footstep, without a fall? Will you always be so in control of your 
balance that you can risk not having the ability to self-arrest because you 
assumed going into the mountains that the axe and crampons would not be 
necessary?

Why take the risk? By the time you get to Kennedy Meadows you'll be in such 
great shape that the added safety tools will not matter much to you, anyway. 
Take them through to Sonora Pass, at least, then send them home. The key is 
knowing when you'll need them, having them in hand or on foot when you do, 
and maintaining your traction and balance while using them (of course, this 
is all after learning how to use them in the first place!).

We always carry both until, after having been in the mountains for 
sufficient time to know the current and local conditions and melt rates per 
aspects and elevations of the hills,  we know for certain we can be without 
them.

There is a time where gram conscious becomes pound foolish and only you know 
where that is for you. Get experience testing your abilities over snow. Then 
decide what you want to do without.

"Just remember, Be Careful out there!"

Ned Tibbits, Director
Mountain Education
South Lake Tahoe, Ca. 96150
    P: 888-996-8333
    F: 530-541-1456
    C: 530-721-1551
    http://www.mountaineducation.org
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tim" <tim1ness at gmail.com>
To: <ned at mountaineducation.org>
Cc: "Eric Munsing" <eric.munsing at gmail.com>; <pct-l at backcountry.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 7:21 AM
Subject: Re: [pct-l] Lightweighting microspikes?

Since it has been a low snow year, is it at all feasible to proceed on the 
PCT without ice ax and cramps?

On Mar 21, 2012, at 12:39 AM, <ned at mountaineducation.org> wrote:

> I know that I'm coming into this thread late (been out in the snow, now 
> that
> it is finally here in Tahoe) but we have tested the Kahtoola Microspikes a
> lot during the months of May, June, and July in the high sierra and have a
> thing or two to add:
>
> I won't use them again on any slope other than straight up or down. When 
> on
> a sloping traverse, they simply roll off your footwear (especially off the
> ball of your foot, just where you need the traction) and down you go. We
> tried microspikes on various types of shoes ranging from trailrunners to
> leather boots and had this predictable result.
>
> However, the Kahtoola KTS crampons design and strapping system proved 
> highly
> reliable, built our confidence with every foot placement on snow, crust, 
> or
> ice, and kept us safe, whether on steep traverses, suncups, ascents, or
> descents. Whenever we know that we will be on spring snow for any length 
> of
> time or distance where we might slip and fall, we always carry ours! The
> weight is worth the security!
>
> And, yes, you will be strong enough by the time you hit the sierras at
> Kennedy that the added gear will not be a big deal!
>
>
>
> "Just remember, Be Careful out there!"
>
> Ned Tibbits, Director
> Mountain Education
> South Lake Tahoe, Ca. 96150
>    P: 888-996-8333
>    F: 530-541-1456
>    C: 530-721-1551
>    http://www.mountaineducation.org
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Eric Munsing" <eric.munsing at gmail.com>
> To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 8:40 AM
> Subject: [pct-l] Lightweighting microspikes?
>
>
>> As I tally up the weight of my pack I cringe at the weight of the extra
>> sierran gear, and particularly my microspikes.  Much of their weight 
>> (17oz
>> with bag for size L) seems to be in the rubber attachment system- which
>> seems like bulky and overbuilt.  I'm curious whether anyone has tried
>> replacing the rubber part with a cord lacing system or otherwise
>> lightweighting the microspikes.  Also, any experience thru-hiking with
>> other, lighter traction systems, i.e. instep crampons or yaktrax?
>>
>> I ask as an avid backcountry skier and mountaineer with a high degree of
>> comfort with steep snow climbs, self-rescue, and exposure; I recognize
>> that
>> the microspikes are a safety system but would feel comfortable with a 
>> less
>> robust, lighter system.  That being said, most of my experience with snow
>> has been while wearing ski/mountaineering boots, so I'm new to the world
>> of
>> hiking-compatible traction systems- hence the question for the list.
>>
>> When all is said and done, by the time I hit the Sierras I'll hopefully 
>> be
>> in good enough shape that I won't notice the extra weight...
>>
>> -- 
>> Eric Munsing
>> +1 781 492 0614
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