[pct-l] Pct-L Digest, Vol 59, Issue 7
Meridith Rosendahl
meridith.rosendahl at gmail.com
Tue Nov 6 13:04:56 CST 2012
Is anyone working on a Video of the class of 2012?
Michael Aguilar, trailname VirGo. You can reach him through the PCT Class
of 2012 facebook page.
On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 10:00 AM, <pct-l-request at backcountry.net> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Thru-Hike, Explorer Style (Edward Anderson)
> 2. Re: Mileage (Linda Sheehan)
> 3. Re: Mileage (Tortoise)
> 4. Re: Winter attempt in SoCal (tomatos06 at aol.com)
> 5. Re: (no subject) (Timothy Nye)
> 6. Re: Mt. Baden Powel (Dan Campbell)
> 7. Re: Thru-Hike, Explorer Style (belcherjd at juno.com)
> 8. Subject: Re: Thru-Hike, Explorer Style (linsey)
> 9. Re: Thru-Hike, Explorer Style (Brick Robbins)
> 10. Re: Mt. Baden Powel (Chris Anderson)
> 11. Re: Thru-Hike, Explorer Style (eric at ericwichman.com)
> 12. No Zeros in Motels (mark utzman)
> 13. Re: No Zeros in Motels (Ned Tibbits)
> 14. Re: strange bird call (Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes)
> 15. Re: Thru-Hike, Explorer Style (Eric Lee)
> 16. Re: Thru-Hike, Explorer Style (Lindsey Sommer)
> 17. Re: Subject: Re: Thru-Hike, Explorer Style (Grant Bennett)
> 18. food along the trail (David Hough on pct-l)
> 19. Thru Hike Explorer Style (Ann Gerckens)
> 20. Packs & Base Weight (patrick griffith)
> 21. Re: No Zeros in Motels (Daniel Zellman)
> 22. Re: Packs & Base Weight (CHUCK CHELIN)
> 23. Re: Packs & Base Weight (Scott Williams)
> 24. Re: Thru-Hike, Explorer Style (eric at ericwichman.com)
> 25. 2012 Video (chiefcowboy at verizon.net)
> 26. Re: PCT hiker stats (Eddy)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 10:12:20 -0800 (PST)
> From: Edward Anderson <mendoridered at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Thru-Hike, Explorer Style
> To: "eric at ericwichman.com" <eric at ericwichman.com>,
> "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <1352139140.58632.YahooMailNeo at web111609.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Eriic,
> ?
> On SEARCH type in:????? bronze mule pct??????????? You will find
> information on Bronze's Expedition.? His plan was, is some ways similar to
> yours - except that everything that he brought was what would have been
> available in the early 1800's. All of his clothes, all equipment,?his
> authentic?food, etc. He was on the PCT for over 1.5 months. He walked,
> leading the mule.?I don't think he did much hunting. You might want to
> contact him.
> ?
> Your biggest problem would be resupply - since fires would not be legal in
> most places - to cook, you would need to resupply?FUEL for whatever stove
> you would need. Or, the other option would be to eat most of your meat raw.
> Or mostly stay off the PCT and the CREST and find lower elevation routes.
> ?
> I solo rode the PCT on a horse. I resupplied by driving my rig ahead and
> caching at road crossings and trail heads. I mostly lived on the trail, did
> not go into towns to resupply or for the conveniences of civilization. I
> was on the PCT to escape that and be as?independent and self-reliant as
> possible. Of course, that was not always possible and I greatly appreciate
> the help that I got, when needed, from people.? if you are interested, on
> search, type in:???? edandersonpct
> ?
> Best of luck,
> ?
> MendoRider-Hiker
> ?
> ?
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "eric at ericwichman.com" <eric at ericwichman.com>
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Sent: Sunday, November 4, 2012 12:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Thru-Hike, Explorer Style
>
> Hi all, Thanks for all the variety of responses I am getting. As I?
> thought there are varying opinions as to whether it is possible and?
> opinions on the legalities as well.
>
> One thing that keeps coming up is the legal issue of hunting for food.?
> One can forage for certain fruits, veggies, berries, etc, but when it?
> comes to hunting, it seems some people are misunderstanding or?
> forgetting the law.
>
> The PCT runs through 22+ National Forests and Wilderness areas. It is?
> LEGAL to hunt in these areas with proper licensing from the state.?
> Certain animals (wild feral pigs) are legal to take year round. While?
> the wild pigs are good food, and one could probably survive on pork?
> for 4-6 months, it would make for a pretty boring menu.
>
> Hunting seasons vary from area to area and the logistics of planning?
> an unsupplied "survival" type thruhike like this would be daunting to?
> say the least. Not to mention, how does one hunt without a firearm??
> (since firearms are illegal in the National Parks)
>
> There are a few options. Not sure if a spear is legal. One could use a?
> bow (seasonal), a sling-shot, a sling, or even a large?
> hunting/survival knife. Not sure about trapping.
>
> I'm still researching the laws and the hunting seasons, and which?
> animals are legal to take, but it does seem possible legally IF one?
> can map out which game animals can be taken, where, and in which?
> sections of the trail. Again, logistically, this is very complicated.
>
> Sure! It's easier to mail yourself food, and a lot less hassle, but?
> who knows, maybe this Explorer style hunt is possible after all.
>
> ~Eric
>
>
>
> Quoting Reinhold Metzger <reinholdmetzger at cox.net>:
>
> >
> >
> > JPL wrote:
> > There is some talk about folks who have attempted that on the AT.? My
> > limited understanding is that they didn't last a week.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:eric at ericwichman.com? ?
> > <http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l>
> > Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2012 9:42 PM
> >
> > Has anyone ever done the whole trail "Pioneer" or "Explorer" style? In
> > other words, no resupply points, no postal service, no shipping food,
> > basically completely off the grid, living off the land the whole way.
> > What I'm talking about is a cross country survival trip.
> >
> > My question is. Has anyone ever attempted a thru-hike completely off
> > grid, if not why not, if so, WHO, and were they successful?
> >
> > ~Eric
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 10:32:19 -0800
> From: Linda Sheehan <lwshee at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mileage
> To: David Thibault <dthibaul07 at gmail.com>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAJAP6uBQkutj1nRvi9kyUTTG8U+8ARG_rFbWdbgbd2vyQTQ8ZA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I am an old time hiker and have always hiked the way she says. Once you get
> going on a long hike, it just goes day by day making or losing miles. One
> thing I try to avoid is only thinking about town food on the last few miles
> otherwise I 'd go mad; that last mile before the road or exit has to be the
> longest!!
> Linda S.
>
> On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 11:06 AM, David Thibault <dthibaul07 at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Agreed, It was always a great feeling to end up your last day before a
> > trail town just a few miles from town - ready to strike for breakfast in
> > the morning. You could hit breakfast, do town choirs, hit lunch, and
> > head back out in the late afternoon with a fresh meal ready for dinner,
> my
> > favorites -- subs, salads, pizza, etc.
> >
> > I also always get a chuckle at the folks that check the elevation
> profiles
> > every day - with the thoughts dread of another steep hill climb that day.
> > For me it seemed silly as your going to hike it either way so there is no
> > need to really concern yourself about it.
> >
> > Similar story from the AT. One day I met up with a weekend hiker and he
> > informed me that it was going to rain the next day or so for a couple of
> > days. After we parted I thought about it for a while and realized that
> > this new information really made no difference at all - if it didn't
> rain I
> > was going to be hiking, if it did rain I was going to be hiking.
> >
> >
> > Day-Late (taking it a day at a time on the trail and banking those miles
> > into a breakfast treat)
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Diane really captures a common thru-hiking space in this missive. I
> bet
> > > everyone of us who's been on the trail long enough to routinely reach
> > > the 20 mpd averages experiences what she describes. For those of us who
> > > haven't been there yet, what she writes is really, really accurate.
> You
> > > can expect to experience what she describes!!!
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2012 17:30:08 -0800
> From: Tortoise <Tortoise73 at charter.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mileage
> To: Scott <public at postholer.com>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net, pep at pacifier.com
> Message-ID: <509716A0.8010804 at charter.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> For my trip planning I create a spreadsheet using the Postholer data book
> then try to correlate his points-of-interest with the guidebook and with
> halfmile's waypoints. While the total mileage from the Mexican border can
> vary by 15 or so miles, the distance of each segment is reasonably close.
> Overall I've been using postholer's data as my primary source since I think
> he has a better estimate of the actual gain and loss between points. I
> factor in gain to estimate how far I can hike in a day.
>
> Your mileage will _definitely_ vary.
>
> Tortoise
>
> Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution
> inevitable
> President John F Kennedy, 1962
>
> All content is copyrighted. Reproduction or use elsewhere is is expressly
> prohibited without the express permission of the author. Use within the
> PCT-list is permitted.
>
> On 2012.11.02 13:41, Scott wrote:
> > Yogi yogi'd her mileages from the data book, they are the same source.
> >
> > You make the assumption that the above source is correct. I can assure
> > you it's no better than 3rd on the list of accurate mileage sources out
> > there. Even so, the disparities in the above source (and there are some
> > big ones) don't really matter.
> >
> > The errors in any of the good sources are not cumulative, they are of a
> > +/- at any given point.
> >
> > -postholer
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 17:02:10 -0500 (EST)
> From: tomatos06 at aol.com
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Winter attempt in SoCal
> To: lwshee at gmail.com, pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <8CF88EF2C632128-162C-BA43 at Webmail-m119.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> Linda-
>
> I live in San Diego and would interested in joining you for a portion of
> your hike depending on the dates you will be out there. I am planning to
> hike the entirety of Section A in April but the more practice the better!
>
> Idyllic (aka Tina)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Linda Sheehan <lwshee at gmail.com>
> To: pct-l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Sent: Sun, Nov 4, 2012 8:52 am
> Subject: [pct-l] Winter attempt in SoCal
>
>
> Hello,
> My friend and I (intrepid section hikers) are from Seattle and will be in
> the Palm Springs area over Xmas holidays. We want to do about a week on the
> PCT and will have a car and husband support camper rv. We were thinking of
> starting at Campo and just going north for 70 miles and being resupplied
> and doing about 30 more. We'll have a GPS, winter bags and tent and water
> pump/pills. I know the weather could be cold and snowy in parts. Is it
> possible to do it in the snow? Should we bring microspikes or is there a
> saner alternative (other than sitting by the pool!) some other part of the
> trail down there?
> Suggestions will be appreciated.
> Anyone else interested in joining us?
> Linda S. from Seattle
> _______________________________________________
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> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 12:22:25 -0800
> From: Timothy Nye <timpnye at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] (no subject)
> To: Rob Flynn <rob.flynn at live.com>
> Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <2F1B415E-352C-4AEB-82C3-A92D503BD05F at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> With respect to registration for Kick Off, don't worry. Thru hikers are
> always welcome and a place found in order to accommodate them. I would
> still attempt to notify them or reserve a place, perhaps through your
> hiking partner, friend or family member as logistics for Kick Off are
> likely to become inexorably more complicated as more thrus make the
> attempt. Incidentally, there is a ride board that will hopefully allow you
> to catch a ride from, and back to, whichever point on the trail you have
> reached at the time Kick Off starts.
>
> I would suggest that you might want to reconsider having too early a start
> date depending on when specifically you were thinking of beginning
> Generally, there is more than enough time to get to Kennedy Meadows for a
> timely transit through the Sierra, if you depart from Lake Moreno after the
> ADZPCTKO. Otherwise, two months for 700 miles could be a bit much unless
> you're planning to get in hiking shape on the trail itself. If you haven't
> done a long distance hike before you'll be amazed how much ground you'll
> cover after a few weeks on the trail.
>
> What would make me endorse an early start is if you were coming directly
> from England and it was a hot year in the desert, which, in any event, is
> more often than not forested mountains or wooded hills. However, if you're
> coming from having spent time recently in Ethiopia, I assume that you'll be
> fairly well acclimated to the conditions that you'll encounter.
>
> Just my two cents.
>
> Gourmet
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Nov 4, 2012, at 12:31 PM, Rob Flynn <rob.flynn at live.com> wrote:
>
> > I used Yogi's and Halfmile's maps for my thru-hike this year; I also
> noticed many others using this combination. Check out the info on the
> PCTA.org website for some other pertinent stuff.
> >
> > Inspector Gadget
> >
> > Sent from my Windows Phone
> > ________________________________
> > From: israh Goodall
> > Sent: 11/4/2012 1:56 PM
> > To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> > Subject: [pct-l] (no subject)
> >
> > Hello
> >
> > Hope you are well..
> >
> >
> > I am excited to say that the planning is in full swing now and we plan to
> > come this april (2013) to walk northbound along the PCT!
> > We are two girlies from the UK-right now its a cold and wintery eve here
> > and the thought of trekking in the desert seems such a far away thing-
> but
> > we are so happy !
> >
> > The only problem I am having is that everyone's comments and ideas and
> > books and blogs are all so confusing because they can sometimes be
> > conflicting
> >
> > I really need to clarify some issues- and hope over time this will come.
> > I hope you dont mind me asking a few things to you to help with planning.
> >
> > 1)Its hard to know this side what is the best cooking type to get-
> > according to what gas/petrol or other fuel is available- could you please
> > recommend a good stove/fuel type.
> >
> > 2)Also do you know about how we can get back into the usa after walking
> > over the border into Canada- in order to catch the flight home- is there
> a
> > special permit which allows for this? has anyone had experience of doing
> > this?
> >
> > 3)Has anyone got a good website for someone who has done it in 6 months-
> to
> > help with prepping camp/fuel stock points?
> >
> > 4)Is it really necessary to still send food parcels and would you have
> the
> > up-to date places that definitely need these- as there are so many
> > different ideas about this on the net and in books i have read- with some
> > people saying you don't need to send food parcels ahead and others saying
> > you definitely do.
> >
> > 5)We will be hoping to arrive in april and walk some of the section
> before
> > the meet up in the south- it looks like you have to register for this- I
> am
> > going to be away in Ethiopia working and will not be able to do this -
> > unless I can register now- but i cant seem to find the link- could you
> help
> > in this?
> >
> > Thank you all so so so much
> >
> > Love from the UK
> >
> > Israh
> >
> > I have the Cicerone book - which is great- and it says that you dont need
> > to have maps if you have the book. However- i am a firm lover of a map
> and
> > compass and I would be nervous not to have this (as i am not taking a
> gps)
> > could you recommend maps that would allow for use of a compass...
> >
> > I cant thank you enough
> > really really thank you
> >
> > israhxxxxx :)
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 16:47:16 -0700
> From: Dan Campbell <dan at camelbackhotel.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mt. Baden Powel
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <CAAjn0JWEK1W+oZF=
> 1pZhX+GCBZNz+hy_46LBjNfY0wEvbA8Nqw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I'm section hiking this weekend and wanted to confirm a couple things:
>
> 1. Is there any snow on Mt. Baden-Powell?
> 2. Is the forest service road off of Lone Pine Canyon Rd. going to
> Gobbler's Knob (mile 356.5) still open (they usually lock the gate next
> to
> Lone Pine Canyon Rd)?
>
> Happy Trails,
>
> *Dan Campbell
> *
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 23:57:22 GMT
> From: "belcherjd at juno.com" <belcherjd at juno.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Thru-Hike, Explorer Style
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <20121105.155722.9575.0 at webmail03.dca.untd.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Eric,
> I have never heard of anyone successfully hiking the PCT in survival or
> "off the land" mode.
> I did share a campsite one night with a young fella just out of the
> military and back from Nam (about 1972?) who was hiking south doing just
> that.
> We were at Mirror Lake about 11 miles south of Snoqualmie Pass (mi 2393).
> He had a Aluminum pan and spoon, large knife, no stove, a poncho, two wool
> army blankets, jungle boots, the clothes on his back, and a knapp sack.
> I never saw any food he would be carrying but in the morning he left camp
> for 15 min or so and came back mushing up a slime in his pan. I never gave
> him the satisfaction of asking what he was eating but I assumed it was a
> mix of bugs and leaves of some sort.
> He was head to some commune in central Oregon.
> My dog (a very loving Chesapeake )never did make up to him ... she just
> did not like him.
>
> Some here have mentioned hunting and taking deer, pig, and other large
> animals.
> However, I would think that your food would consist of mostly grubs, ants,
> slugs, and other creepy crawly things along with pine nuts, roots, wild
> onions, dandelion greens and the like. (very nutritious but too bitter for
> me!! ;) ) Maybe a grouse, squirrel, mouse, rat, or rattlesnake, but those
> would take a lot of time to dress out and cook and would be good for a zero
> day along with a fresh fish trapped in you multi use mosquito head net.
>
> Can it be done? ---- Maybe in multi years
> Would I do it? ---- NO!
> Would I like to hear about it? --- Yes
> My advise? --- HYOH - carry a plastic card to use at the double arches
> - and carry a spot II just in case you can't make it to the double arches
> thereby saving 50 SAR personnel thousand of dollars looking for you.
>
> 'til later,
> Jon
>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From:eric at ericwichman.com
> >>
> >> Has anyone ever done the whole trail "Pioneer" or "Explorer" style? In
> >> other words, no resupply points, no postal service, no shipping food,
> >> basically completely off the grid, living off the land the whole way.
> >> What I'm talking about is a cross country survival trip.
> >>
> >> My question is. Has anyone ever attempted a thru-hike completely off
> >> grid, if not why not, if so, WHO, and were they successful?
> >>
> >> ~Eric
> ____________________________________________________________
> Woman is 53 But Looks 25
> Mom reveals 1 simple wrinkle trick that has angered doctors...
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5098528a9732a528a46adst02duc
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 16:01:58 -0800 (PST)
> From: linsey <mowoggirl at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Subject: Re: Thru-Hike, Explorer Style
> To: pct list serve <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <1352160118.13365.YahooMailNeo at web164005.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Dear Eric,
>
> As a mostly blackballed member of the PCT community, I don't mind telling
> you that your replies from this list are much too civil. ? Your plan is
> stupid and you seem like an inflexible time suck. ?A proper distance hike
> diet should be heavy on complex carbs, not meat. ?The most elite distance
> hikers eat beans every day. ?You might have a chance if the trail were
> covered in ripe huckleberries, but it's not.
>
> Before you impose too many rule and regulations for your hike, you need to
> read Ray Jardine's "TrailLife" and/or "Beyond Backpacking" and/or "The
> Pacific Crest Trail Hiker's Handbook". ?My advice is to learn now from the
> countless mistakes of others that are well documented, rather than go out
> there with myriad ill-advised notions guaranteed to make every thru hikers
> eye's roll.
>
> Remember that any time spent on the PCT is amazing regardless if you've
> achieved your goal or not. ?Why not focus your energies developing good
> distance hiker style which will increase your chance of success.
>
>
> Sincerely, Lollygag
> PS ?Our public library has Jardine's books for check out. ?Don't miss the
> chapter on Hiking Enjoyment (which is a learned skill).
>
>
>
> __________________________ ______ From: "eric at ericwichman.com" <eric
> at ericwichman.com>
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net Sent: Sunday, November 4, 2012 12:35 PM Hi
> all, Thanks for all the variety of responses I am getting. As I?
> thought there are varying opinions as to whether it is possible and?
> opinions on the legalities as well. One thing that keeps coming up is the
> legal issue of hunting for food.?
> One can forage for certain fruits, veggies, berries, etc, but when it?
> comes to hunting, it seems some people are misunderstanding or?
> forgetting the law. The PCT runs through 22+ National Forests and
> Wilderness areas. It is?
> LEGAL to hunt in these areas with proper licensing from the state.?
> Certain animals (wild feral pigs) are legal to take year round. While?
> the wild pigs are good food, and one could probably survive on pork?
> for 4-6 months, it would make for a pretty boring menu. Hunting seasons
> vary from area to area and the logistics of planning?
> an unsupplied "survival" type thruhike like this would be daunting to?
> say the least. Not to mention, how does one hunt without a firearm??
> (since firearms are illegal in the National Parks) There are a few
> options. Not sure if a spear is legal. One could use a?
> bow (seasonal), a sling-shot, a sling, or even a large?
> hunting/survival knife. Not sure about trapping. I'm still researching the
> laws and the hunting seasons, and which?
> animals are legal to take, but it does seem possible legally IF one?
> can map out which game animals can be taken, where, and in which?
> sections of the trail. Again, logistically, this is very complicated.
> Sure! It's easier to mail yourself food, and a lot less hassle, but?
> who knows, maybe this Explorer style hunt is possible after all. ~Eric
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 17:22:57 -0700
> From: Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Thru-Hike, Explorer Style
> To: eric at ericwichman.com
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <CALV1NzkyBMeR45zDYc5pSjD57vTTMddarh=
> MSWY3hieo_nMLBQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> This style of hike would completely violate the "Leave No Trace"
> philosophy that is at the core of the backcountry ethic.
>
> The digging of plants, and the killing of animals necessary for this
> style of trip would greatly effect the area around the trail, and
> would require illegal out of season hunting, and illegal and unsafe
> use of firearms, especially in the SoCal sections that are near
> densely populated areas.
>
> Even if your hunting were successful and you didn't get caught and
> arrested, you wouldn't be able to acquire enough food from the area
> near the trail for the first 400-500 miles to even sustain an
> non-hiking calorie burn.
>
> Not only is this type of trip inappropriate, it is nearly impossible.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 16:50:10 -0800 (PST)
> From: Chris Anderson <srhspaded at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mt. Baden Powel
> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <1352163010.44886.YahooMailNeo at web121902.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> I'm not sure about the gate being open or not, but right now Baden Powell
> does not have any snow on it. ?But there is a winter storm coming in this
> weekend.
> Here is what is posted.
>
> NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE SPECIAL STATEMENT
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> COLD LOW PRESSURE SYSTEM FOR THURSDAY NIGHT THROUGH EARLY SATURDAY...
> A COLD LOW PRESSURE SYSTEM WILL DEVELOP OVER THE GULF OF ALASKA TUESDAY...
> THEN MOVE SOUTHWARD ALONG THE WEST COAST... MOVING INTO CALIFORNIA THURSDAY
> NIGHT AND FRIDAY... AND INLAND SATURDAY. SOME OF THE POSSIBLE IMPACTS...
> * MUCH COOLER TEMPERATURES... HIGH TEMPERATURES FOR FRIDAY IN THE 50S AND
> 60S AT LOWER ELEVATIONS AND 30S AND 40S IN THE MOUNTAINS. THESE HIGH
> TEMPERATURES WILL BE 25 TO 35 DEGREES COOLER THAN HIGH TEMPERATURES EARLY
> THIS WEEK.
> * SHOWERS... MAINLY MOUNTAINS WEST WITH RAINFALL TOTALS OF ONE TENTH TO
> ONE QUARTER INCH NEAR THE COAST TO ONE HALF TO LOCALLY THREE QUARTERS OF AN
> INCH IN THE MOUNTAINS WITH ONE TENTH INCH OR LESS IN THE DESERTS. COVERAGE
> IS EXPECTED MAINLY NEAR THE COASTAL MOUNTAIN SLOPES FOR THURSDAY NIGHT AND
> FRIDAY WITH GREATER COVERAGE AND AMOUNTS MOUNTAINS WEST LATE FRIDAY THROUGH
> FRIDAY NIGHT.
> * SNOW IN THE MOUNTAINS... SNOW LEVELS LOWERING TO 4000 TO 4500 FEET
> FRIDAY AFTERNOON AND 3000 TO 3500 FEET FOR FRIDAY NIGHT THROUGH EARLY
> SATURDAY WITH A FEW INCHES OF SNOWFALL POSSIBLE ABOVE 4000 FEET AND LOCAL
> AMOUNTS TO AROUND 6 INCHES ON THE HIGHEST PEAKS.
> * STRONG GUSTY WEST WINDS... IN THE MOUNTAINS AND DESERTS WITH GUSTS TO
> AROUND 50 MPH AT TIMES FROM LATE THURSDAY THROUGH FRIDAY NIGHT. THE STRONG
> WINDS MAY CAUSE AREAS OF BLOWING SAND AND DUST IN THE DESERTS
> ?
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________________
> Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even
> though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who
> neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that
> knows neither victory nor defeat!
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Dan Campbell <dan at camelbackhotel.com>
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Sent: Monday, November 5, 2012 3:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Mt. Baden Powel
>
> I'm section hiking this weekend and wanted to confirm a couple things:
>
> ? 1. Is there any snow on Mt. Baden-Powell?
> ? 2. Is the forest service road off of Lone Pine Canyon Rd. going to
> ? Gobbler's Knob (mile 356.5) still open (they usually lock the gate next
> to
> ? Lone Pine Canyon Rd)?
>
> Happy Trails,
>
> *Dan Campbell
> *
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 17:52:36 -0700
> From: eric at ericwichman.com
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Thru-Hike, Explorer Style
> To: Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <20121105175236.fuzpfixiwgsw4w8o at webmail.ericwichman.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes";
> format="flowed"
>
> Hi "Brick", I've already addressed the LNT issue earlier in this
> thread, so either you want to argue the point, or you didn't read it.
> I'm not going to argue it. You're welcome to read my stance on it.
>
> Thank you for your opinion though. I appreciate it. ;)
>
> ~Eric
>
>
>
> Quoting Brick Robbins <brick at brickrobbins.com>:
>
> > This style of hike would completely violate the "Leave No Trace"
> > philosophy that is at the core of the backcountry ethic.
> >
> > The digging of plants, and the killing of animals necessary for this
> > style of trip would greatly effect the area around the trail, and
> > would require illegal out of season hunting, and illegal and unsafe
> > use of firearms, especially in the SoCal sections that are near
> > densely populated areas.
> >
> > Even if your hunting were successful and you didn't get caught and
> > arrested, you wouldn't be able to acquire enough food from the area
> > near the trail for the first 400-500 miles to even sustain an
> > non-hiking calorie burn.
> >
> > Not only is this type of trip inappropriate, it is nearly impossible.
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 17:56:37 -0800
> From: mark utzman <blackbelthiker at gmail.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] No Zeros in Motels
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAJ9hrMWFYX02KD8NwQ0cWAnwnoMKQXcSaPRgYF9Gm+cXiigdog at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hello all, Has anyone thru-hiked the entire PCT without laying over in a
> motel? Strictly camping out? Just curious. Mark
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 18:03:33 -0800
> From: "Ned Tibbits" <ned at mountaineducation.org>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] No Zeros in Motels
> To: "mark utzman" <blackbelthiker at gmail.com>, <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <EB7C9725432C4972BF3297D7A0B4AB65 at NedPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> That's the way I did it! The idea was to spend as much time in the
> mountains
> as I could and only resupply via boxes mailed to me in various places,
> ranger stations, highway crossings, and to friends nearby who could drive a
> box out to meet me.
>
>
>
> Ned Tibbits, Director
> Mountain Education
> www.mountaineducation.org
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mark utzman
> Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 5:56 PM
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Subject: [pct-l] No Zeros in Motels
>
> Hello all, Has anyone thru-hiked the entire PCT without laying over in a
> motel? Strictly camping out? Just curious. Mark
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
> Pct-L at backcountry.net
> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>
> List Archives:
> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 18:12:33 -0800
> From: Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes <diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] strange bird call
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <30E1130F-D870-43C2-8FEF-13D51A238F92 at santabarbarahikes.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> Oh that is so cool! I heard those funny birds, too. I was camped near
> the hot spring near Bridgeport and I could swear each juniper tree
> had one of those honking noises coming out from under it. I guess I
> was surrounded by nighthawk's dive-bombing around me. I never saw
> them. I would hear the noise and look and see nothing.
>
> On Nov 5, 2012, at 10:00 AM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:
>
> > From: Alicia Reenders <a.reenders at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] strange bird call
> >
> > "...So does anyone know what this bird is? ...
> > ~~^~~
> > Most likely a Nighthawk, they are really wierd. The first time I
> > heard one,
> > I thought it was one of the flying monkees from the "Wizard of Oz"!
> > Click on
> > audio if unsure.
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Nighthawk "
> > Yes! That's totally it!!!! You have solved an interminable
> > mystery! We
> > couldn't get the audio to work in the link you sent but looked it
> > up on You
> > Tube and found a great explaination. Here's the youtube link if
> > anyone's
> > interested
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qpsyjmda5Q
> > -Alicia
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 19:05:24 -0800
> From: Eric Lee <saintgimp at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Thru-Hike, Explorer Style
> To: <eric at ericwichman.com>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <BAY145-ds19BFF10E768464C341B09CBD6B0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> This was rolling around in my head today and I had one more thought to
> share. It should be possible to do some back-of-the-envelope calculations
> to see if the math comes out looking remotely feasible.
>
> One of the things about modern-day survival practices is that people almost
> never do them consistently for multiple months at a time. I respect folks
> who know how to find significant quantities of food in the backcountry but
> let's be honest - you can run a pretty drastic calorie deficit for a week
> or
> two while you're doing your short-term survival thing. You'll eventually
> go
> home and chow down on pizza or whatever to gain it all back. Doing the
> same
> thing for five months straight means that you don't have the luxury of
> running a chronic calorie deficit - over the long term you *have* to break
> even. That's a very different sort of proposition.
>
> A 180-pound male hiking 20+ miles a day in the mountains with a loaded
> backpack is probably going to burn somewhere in the neighborhood of 4,500
> to
> 5,000 calories a day. It varies per person, of course, but this is just a
> rough calculation. So each day you need to collect and consume an average
> of 5,000 calories. Ok, so how much time can you afford to budget for food
> collection each day on average? Let's say two hours for the sake of
> argument. If you walk really fast you could be able to make more time for
> food collection but then you're also probably burning calories at a faster
> rate. Ok, now what kind of food sources would you expect to find in the
> wilderness that let you gather at the rate of 2,500 calories an hour? I
> don't know the answer to that but it's worth asking yourself that question
> and seeing if you have an answer. Shooting a deer would definitely do it,
> I
> guess. Smaller animals - I dunno, maybe. Plants? I very much doubt it.
> How many dandelions and wild onions do you have to gather and eat to net
> 5,000 calories? Again, I don't know, but I'm guessing you'd be at it all
> day, and then you're not thru-hiking, you're just subsisting.
>
> Of course there are going to be many stretches of trail where there simply
> won't be any food to be had regardless of your standards. You will
> probably
> frequently walk a whole day without finding anything worth eating close by
> along the trail, so you'll either need to gather twice as much in the good
> times and prepare it to carry with you, or detour off trail to find dinner.
> Can you gather 10,000 calories a day in the wilderness? I don't know, but
> it's worth thinking through it as a thought experiment.
>
> Eric
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 22:29:13 -0500
> From: Lindsey Sommer <lgsommer at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Thru-Hike, Explorer Style
> To: Eric Lee <saintgimp at hotmail.com>
> Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <
> CAJmjT_mQu592MUroy+_KEcHeua87iMbH+ygMfrDCe_Qyop++ww at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I would just like to add, that as someone with a background in
> Anthropology/Archaeology I've spent a fair amount of time studying the
> habits of our ancient man, and even HE/SHE did not really spend 3-5 months
> straight hiking 20 miles a day. Migrations were a slow process, and that
> type of travel, when it did occur, was either a brief process to travel to
> a seasonal home or didn't last that long.
>
> Also, just from what I've read about people's PCT trail experiences, as
> Eric mentions, you have to be consuming a lot of calories, and even THEN it
> seems that men seems to lose a ton of weight. So, that's something to think
> about.
>
> Cheers,
> Lindsey
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 10:05 PM, Eric Lee <saintgimp at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > This was rolling around in my head today and I had one more thought to
> > share. It should be possible to do some back-of-the-envelope
> calculations
> > to see if the math comes out looking remotely feasible.
> >
> > One of the things about modern-day survival practices is that people
> almost
> > never do them consistently for multiple months at a time. I respect
> folks
> > who know how to find significant quantities of food in the backcountry
> but
> > let's be honest - you can run a pretty drastic calorie deficit for a week
> > or
> > two while you're doing your short-term survival thing. You'll eventually
> > go
> > home and chow down on pizza or whatever to gain it all back. Doing the
> > same
> > thing for five months straight means that you don't have the luxury of
> > running a chronic calorie deficit - over the long term you *have* to
> break
> > even. That's a very different sort of proposition.
> >
> > A 180-pound male hiking 20+ miles a day in the mountains with a loaded
> > backpack is probably going to burn somewhere in the neighborhood of 4,500
> > to
> > 5,000 calories a day. It varies per person, of course, but this is just
> a
> > rough calculation. So each day you need to collect and consume an
> average
> > of 5,000 calories. Ok, so how much time can you afford to budget for
> food
> > collection each day on average? Let's say two hours for the sake of
> > argument. If you walk really fast you could be able to make more time
> for
> > food collection but then you're also probably burning calories at a
> faster
> > rate. Ok, now what kind of food sources would you expect to find in the
> > wilderness that let you gather at the rate of 2,500 calories an hour? I
> > don't know the answer to that but it's worth asking yourself that
> question
> > and seeing if you have an answer. Shooting a deer would definitely do
> it,
> > I
> > guess. Smaller animals - I dunno, maybe. Plants? I very much doubt it.
> > How many dandelions and wild onions do you have to gather and eat to net
> > 5,000 calories? Again, I don't know, but I'm guessing you'd be at it all
> > day, and then you're not thru-hiking, you're just subsisting.
> >
> > Of course there are going to be many stretches of trail where there
> simply
> > won't be any food to be had regardless of your standards. You will
> > probably
> > frequently walk a whole day without finding anything worth eating close
> by
> > along the trail, so you'll either need to gather twice as much in the
> good
> > times and prepare it to carry with you, or detour off trail to find
> dinner.
> > Can you gather 10,000 calories a day in the wilderness? I don't know,
> but
> > it's worth thinking through it as a thought experiment.
> >
> > Eric
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2012 19:39:19 -0800
> From: Grant Bennett <grantbennett at transbay.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Subject: Re: Thru-Hike, Explorer Style
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <50988667.3000108 at transbay.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Yay Linsey! Could Eric just shut up and hike 30 miles without bringing
> anything but his butterfly net?
>
> On 11/5/12 4:01 PM, linsey wrote:
> > Dear Eric,
> >
> > As a mostly blackballed member of the PCT community, I don't mind
> telling you that your replies from this list are much too civil. Your
> plan is stupid and you seem like an inflexible time suck. A proper
> distance hike diet should be heavy on complex carbs, not meat. The most
> elite distance hikers eat beans every day. You might have a chance if the
> trail were covered in ripe huckleberries, but it's not.
> >
> > Before you impose too many rule and regulations for your hike, you need
> to read Ray Jardine's "TrailLife" and/or "Beyond Backpacking" and/or "The
> Pacific Crest Trail Hiker's Handbook". My advice is to learn now from the
> countless mistakes of others that are well documented, rather than go out
> there with myriad ill-advised notions guaranteed to make every thru hikers
> eye's roll.
> >
> > Remember that any time spent on the PCT is amazing regardless if you've
> achieved your goal or not. Why not focus your energies developing good
> distance hiker style which will increase your chance of success.
> >
> >
> > Sincerely, Lollygag
> > PS Our public library has Jardine's books for check out. Don't miss
> the chapter on Hiking Enjoyment (which is a learned skill).
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________ ______ From: "eric at ericwichman.com" <eric
> at ericwichman.com>
> > To: pct-l at backcountry.net Sent: Sunday, November 4, 2012 12:35 PM Hi
> all, Thanks for all the variety of responses I am getting. As I
> > thought there are varying opinions as to whether it is possible and
> > opinions on the legalities as well. One thing that keeps coming up is
> the legal issue of hunting for food.
> > One can forage for certain fruits, veggies, berries, etc, but when it
> > comes to hunting, it seems some people are misunderstanding or
> > forgetting the law. The PCT runs through 22+ National Forests and
> Wilderness areas. It is
> > LEGAL to hunt in these areas with proper licensing from the state.
> > Certain animals (wild feral pigs) are legal to take year round. While
> > the wild pigs are good food, and one could probably survive on pork
> > for 4-6 months, it would make for a pretty boring menu. Hunting seasons
> vary from area to area and the logistics of planning
> > an unsupplied "survival" type thruhike like this would be daunting to
> > say the least. Not to mention, how does one hunt without a firearm?
> > (since firearms are illegal in the National Parks) There are a few
> options. Not sure if a spear is legal. One could use a
> > bow (seasonal), a sling-shot, a sling, or even a large
> > hunting/survival knife. Not sure about trapping. I'm still researching
> the laws and the hunting seasons, and which
> > animals are legal to take, but it does seem possible legally IF one
> > can map out which game animals can be taken, where, and in which
> > sections of the trail. Again, logistically, this is very complicated.
> Sure! It's easier to mail yourself food, and a lot less hassle, but
> > who knows, maybe this Explorer style hunt is possible after all. ~Eric
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 22:09:58 -0800 (PST)
> From: David Hough on pct-l <pcnst2001 at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] food along the trail
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <1352182198.40085.YahooMailClassic at web184401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> When the deer and then the Indians and then the trappers and then the
> miners and then the
> shepherds came to the high country, they followed the paths that were
> there before them to find their way over the passes and across the deserts
> that divided one habitable place from another.
>
> They did not go for weeks along crests or deserts where there was not
> enough food. There was no economic incentive to do so. If asked
> "can you be self sufficient hiking the crest?" they'd probably reply
> "why bother?"
>
> But when the recreationists got organized and started thinking in terms
> of trails for scenery rather than transportation, they discovered they
> had to construct most of the trails in the high country including the
> predecessors of the PCT: JMT, TYT, OST, CCT. The deer had often
> chosen easier, less scenic routes. Cross-mountain routes and crest
> routes are pretty orthogonal.
>
> Even today, crest routes are a challenge, because except in very rare
> instances, they shouldn't cross any water. Every time you stop for
> a drink, you're off the crest route. Likewise the camping tends to
> be a lot better below the crest than on it.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 00:46:17 -0800 (PST)
> From: Ann Gerckens <volunteer_ann at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] Thru Hike Explorer Style
> To: PCT-L <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <1352191577.53048.YahooMailRC at web182204.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Ground squirrels. Our fellow hikers have trained them to come to us
> looking for
> a snack. Carry a small trap and you could probably have meat every day.
> Flame on! SPLAT!
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 10:45:45 +0100
> From: patrick griffith <patrickjgriffith at hotmail.com>
> Subject: [pct-l] Packs & Base Weight
> To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <DUB102-W163F36C2FF8C53C19FCB4EDA6B0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
>
> Dear all,
>
> I am planning my PCT adventure for 2013 and am in the kit buying stage. I
> have done a lot of camping/hiking in some pretty arduous places in my time
> but not over 5 months, so some kit is new to me, the ultralight backpack
> being a prime example. I am leaning toward an osprey kestrel 66-68 weighing
> in at about 1.7kg, I know this is heavy from an ultralight standpoint
> however i would prefer something more rugged and robust that I know is up
> to the job. Also, given as the LNT philosophy is one that I believe in, I
> will not be hacking and killing my way up the trail as some threads in the
> mailing list seem to be trending, so obviously need something that can take
> the weight. So for all you PCTers and long distance hikers what packs did
> you use and with what base weight ie without food and water?
>
> Thanks
>
> Patrick
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 07:52:20 -0600
> From: Daniel Zellman <danielzellman at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] No Zeros in Motels
> To: Ned Tibbits <ned at mountaineducation.org>
> Cc: mark utzman <blackbelthiker at gmail.com>, pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <CAJtv1Wv-fzd3Xm_sLRwFde1SeYAjav1J4x63t=
> XyS-tYu-WoZw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Ned,
>
> That's what we're hoping to do as well -- hoping to avoid towns and hotels
> and "civilization" generally, and stay on the trail as much as possible. I
> wonder if you'd be able/willing to share your resupply list?
>
> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 8:03 PM, Ned Tibbits <ned at mountaineducation.org
> >wrote:
>
> > That's the way I did it! The idea was to spend as much time in the
> > mountains
> > as I could and only resupply via boxes mailed to me in various places,
> > ranger stations, highway crossings, and to friends nearby who could
> drive a
> > box out to meet me.
> >
>
>
> > Ned Tibbits, Director
> > Mountain Education
> > www.mountaineducation.org
>
>
>
> >
> > -----
> > From: mark utzman
> > Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 5:56 PM
> >
> > Hello all, Has anyone thru-hiked the entire PCT without laying over in a
> > motel? Strictly camping out? Just curious. Mark
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 22
> Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 07:21:06 -0800
> From: CHUCK CHELIN <steeleye at wildblue.net>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Packs & Base Weight
> To: PCT listserve <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID:
> <CABc=HN=
> GoYVTCnVPE2p-CjLfnxF14Z9qRF635VE07ws1VyvPDw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> Good morning, Patrick,
>
> My ultra-lite stuff is discussed among the 20-plus ?prep? pages beginning
> here: http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=263803
>
> Within that, packs being mentioned here:
> http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=263805
>
> A more general and less quantitative discussion is here:
>
> http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=165516
>
> I believe when seeking advice it?s a good idea to avoid fronting your
> current predisposition unless you are just trolling for agreement. For
> example, when I see someone ask, ?What does everyone think of ?..?, I
> usually get the idea that their mind is made up and I won?t waste time with
> a reply.
>
> That is particularly good thing to avoid when dealing with retail sales
> personnel. Most of the time they prefer to quickly sell you any specific
> item you mention -- one that you?ve more-or-less decided upon -- than to
> offer options and suggestions that could create confusion that delays a
> sale or ? worse ? push you to look at other stores.
>
> Enjoy your planning,
>
> Steel-Eye
>
> -Hiking the Pct since before it was the PCT ? 1965
>
> http://www.trailjournals.com/steel-eye
>
> http://www.trailjournals.com/SteelEye09/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 23
> Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 07:28:53 -0800
> From: Scott Williams <baidarker at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Packs & Base Weight
> To: patrick griffith <patrickjgriffith at hotmail.com>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <CAGxcj101JJ+6tXa-GeXBG+=
> LD6FTc5Gpad31U1EVWzdzmFPg9Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I started the PCT with an Osprey Exos which began seriously breaking down
> 500 miles into the deserts. I bought an Osprey Aptos which did me through
> the Sierra and all the way to Ashland but was heavier than I wanted and
> caused me to stoop forward due to the mesh back that is so great for air
> flow, but pushes the center of gravity back just enough to cause me to have
> to stoop forward to compensate. I tried on a friends ULA Circuit the first
> day out of Ashland and stood straight up! It has proved to be the most
> comfortable and rugged pack I've ever owned. I just finished the CDT with
> it and counting other trips it's got about 5,000 miles on it and I'll be
> using it next year again. On the CDT I hiked 1,800 miles with Eric Bow who
> has hiked the PCT, FLT, AZT, AT and CDT all in just over two years and all
> with the same circuit. They are built to last. He still loves his as
> well.
>
> As for weights, my base is 15lbs or so and with water weight sometime
> carrying a full gallon over New Mexico and a computer (which I don't add
> into my base as I jetisoned it at the beginning of the San Juans), and
> food, I'd bet my I topped 35lbs at times, maybe 40 for a first day after a
> resupply. That's overpacked and over weight for a Circuit, yet it did well
> and was always comfortable. Don't just buy what you find at REI. Check
> out the Ultra light companies first. They will mail you items to try and
> take them back if you don't find them comfortable. Read Yogi's guide for a
> list of them and lots of critiques.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Shroomer
>
> On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:45 AM, patrick griffith <
> patrickjgriffith at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> > I am planning my PCT adventure for 2013 and am in the kit buying stage. I
> > have done a lot of camping/hiking in some pretty arduous places in my
> time
> > but not over 5 months, so some kit is new to me, the ultralight backpack
> > being a prime example. I am leaning toward an osprey kestrel 66-68
> weighing
> > in at about 1.7kg, I know this is heavy from an ultralight standpoint
> > however i would prefer something more rugged and robust that I know is up
> > to the job. Also, given as the LNT philosophy is one that I believe in, I
> > will not be hacking and killing my way up the trail as some threads in
> the
> > mailing list seem to be trending, so obviously need something that can
> take
> > the weight. So for all you PCTers and long distance hikers what packs did
> > you use and with what base weight ie without food and water?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Patrick
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 24
> Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 08:32:06 -0700
> From: eric at ericwichman.com
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Thru-Hike, Explorer Style
> To: Eric Lee <saintgimp at hotmail.com>
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID: <20121106083206.o1ga03zm88wkcgkg at webmail.ericwichman.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes";
> format="flowed"
>
> Good points Eric.
>
> I wonder why no one has mentioned pack animals yet. Not just to carry
> more food from the beginning, but to be able to carry more food along
> the way. Not sure how this would work as I have ZERO experience with
> pack animals. Also, I'm just throwing it out there about the pack
> animal. Would I have to carry food for another mouth to feed? Would I
> have to make more stops for water and such? I don't know if a pack
> animal would be a good idea, or would slow me down.
>
> If one foraged for food the whole way it would probably take a year to
> complete the trail. However, spending 2 days hunting/foraging and
> drying food instead of going into towns might enable me to gather
> enough food to hike 7-10 days or more without having to hunt again.
> (this would also make it easier to plan the hunts. I may have to hike
> a day or so off trail to reach a suitable hunting area)
>
> I'd rather take one deer or pig, and spend a couple days prepping and
> preserving the meat for a good solid 7-14 day hike between
> foraging/hunting times. But this is ideal, and plans never usually
> work out that way.
>
> I don't know... That's why we're discussing it right...?
>
> ~Eric
>
>
> Quoting Eric Lee <saintgimp at hotmail.com>:
>
> > This was rolling around in my head today and I had one more thought to
> > share. It should be possible to do some back-of-the-envelope
> calculations
> > to see if the math comes out looking remotely feasible.
> >
> > One of the things about modern-day survival practices is that people
> almost
> > never do them consistently for multiple months at a time. I respect
> folks
> > who know how to find significant quantities of food in the backcountry
> but
> > let's be honest - you can run a pretty drastic calorie deficit for a
> week or
> > two while you're doing your short-term survival thing. You'll
> eventually go
> > home and chow down on pizza or whatever to gain it all back. Doing the
> same
> > thing for five months straight means that you don't have the luxury of
> > running a chronic calorie deficit - over the long term you *have* to
> break
> > even. That's a very different sort of proposition.
> >
> > A 180-pound male hiking 20+ miles a day in the mountains with a loaded
> > backpack is probably going to burn somewhere in the neighborhood of
> 4,500 to
> > 5,000 calories a day. It varies per person, of course, but this is just
> a
> > rough calculation. So each day you need to collect and consume an
> average
> > of 5,000 calories. Ok, so how much time can you afford to budget for
> food
> > collection each day on average? Let's say two hours for the sake of
> > argument. If you walk really fast you could be able to make more time
> for
> > food collection but then you're also probably burning calories at a
> faster
> > rate. Ok, now what kind of food sources would you expect to find in the
> > wilderness that let you gather at the rate of 2,500 calories an hour? I
> > don't know the answer to that but it's worth asking yourself that
> question
> > and seeing if you have an answer. Shooting a deer would definitely do
> it, I
> > guess. Smaller animals - I dunno, maybe. Plants? I very much doubt it.
> > How many dandelions and wild onions do you have to gather and eat to net
> > 5,000 calories? Again, I don't know, but I'm guessing you'd be at it all
> > day, and then you're not thru-hiking, you're just subsisting.
> >
> > Of course there are going to be many stretches of trail where there
> simply
> > won't be any food to be had regardless of your standards. You will
> probably
> > frequently walk a whole day without finding anything worth eating close
> by
> > along the trail, so you'll either need to gather twice as much in the
> good
> > times and prepare it to carry with you, or detour off trail to find
> dinner.
> > Can you gather 10,000 calories a day in the wilderness? I don't know,
> but
> > it's worth thinking through it as a thought experiment.
> >
> > Eric
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 25
> Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2012 09:12:11 -0800
> From: <chiefcowboy at verizon.net>
> Subject: [pct-l] 2012 Video
> To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
> Message-ID: <785E55B21AAE4AB78958454ED02872DF at RonPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Is anyone working on a Video of the class of 2012?
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 26
> Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 09:15:29 -0800 (PST)
> From: Eddy <ewker at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT hiker stats
> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Message-ID:
> <1352222129.5020.YahooMailClassic at web121104.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> anyone know if they have a trail journal? That should be an interesting
> read
>
> Eddy
>
> --- On Mon, 11/5/12, Andrea Dinsmore <andrea at dinsmoreshikerhaven.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> From: Andrea Dinsmore <andrea at dinsmoreshikerhaven.com>
> Subject: Re: [pct-l] PCT hiker stats
> To: mkwart at gci.net
> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
> Date: Monday, November 5, 2012, 1:40 AM
>
>
> 7 years old, Barracuda.......and Mom, Sparrow. Came through Stevens Pass on
> 8.31.12
>
> PCT MOM
>
> On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 10:28 PM, <mkwart at gci.net> wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know who is keeping track of the PCT records--such as the
> > youngest person to finish, the person with the most thrus, the longest
> > thru hike, etc. etc.
> > Thanks
> > --Fireweed
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pct-L mailing list
> > Pct-L at backcountry.net
> > To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
> >
> > List Archives:
> > http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
> > All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> > Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Pct-L mailing list
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> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Pct-L at backcountry.net
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>
> List Archives:
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>
> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>
> End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 59, Issue 7
> ************************************
>
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