[pct-l] Wife Buy-In and Contracting Biz Prep For Thru Hike
Gena Nita
gnita12 at gmail.com
Fri Oct 5 13:17:12 CDT 2012
see highlighted correction, thx!
On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Gena Nita <gnita12 at gmail.com> wrote:
> This is in reply to Jesse Baldwin's question and adding to Dicentra's
> note. I won't be able to assist with ideas on how to prep your business for
> your trip but I can share my experience with you. I'm married, 30 yrs olf
> female from Canada, who had decided to thru hike the PCT in 2015. My
> husband and I go backpacking, canoeing, camping and horseback riding all
> summer long in Ontario's provincial parks. We also planned a 2 weeks
> backpacking excursion to Greece next yr...the highlight being climbing
> Mount Olympus in 2-3 days.
>
> With this being said, when I asked my husband to join me on the PCT hike
> he totally ignored the subject. I started doing research on the topic:
> watched videos and read hikers' blogs, so the more I did this the more he
> started making peace with it to the point that now he'd be surprised if I
> decided not to go anymore. I run a lot of ideas by him, sharing stories
> I've read online. I've also made it clear to him that I wouldn't go all by
> myself. So, I posted a few adds searching for hiking partners, and was
> lucky to find a fellow Canadian who's interested, and we're slowly but
> surely planning the trip. We'd like to form a small 4-5 people group for
> this trip so if either one of you would like to change your plans you could
> join us in 2015.
>
> However, I've never tried to force or convince my husband to join me, I
> respect his decision. At the same time I told him that he can't expect me
> not to go. Afterall we are all individuals with our own needs and goals,
> and we should strive to achieve great things. Of course I'd love him to
> come along, but I can't expect him to. There are many married hikers on the
> trail, men and women, whose spouse's didn't join them for whatever
> reason. So Jesses, give it time, 2016 is a long way from here, but try
> including your wife in your planning, run things by her, ask for her input,
> share stories you've read online, or even show her some videos, a bit at a
> time...she might warm up to the idea. you coudl also explain to her that
> you'd like to experience something great with your youngest son, something
> that both father and son can remember for yrs to come. You might also want
> to understand her point of view, why she might not want you to go. If you
> take the time to explain why something's important to you, the other person
> might, if not agree with you, at least understand your need for such an
> experience.
>
> For me, I love nature, I was born in Europe, From the age of 6 my parents
> would take my brothers and I for 2 weeks abckpacking/camping in the
> Carpathians, and 2 weeks at the Balck Sea. We did this every year for 8 yrs
> until we moved to Canada. It's in my bones, I miss it, I drive 3 hrs out of
> the city to hike a 19 km trail and then drive back home, all in the same
> day. I can't expect my husband to join me every time. He also can't dictate
> what makes me happy, at least not in this case...I'm satisfied that he
> understands and respects my needs, and although he might not be pleased
> with my decision he's still supportive. Besides I'll need him back hom to
> send me stuff along the way, so he'd still be contributing towards my
> adventure. And who knows, backpacking for 2 weeks in Greece might change
> his mind and join me afterall.
>
> On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 10:00 AM, <pct-l-request at backcountry.net> wrote:
>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. How Women can Avoid using TP for No. 1 (lorna at ptera.net)
>> 2. Re: Electronics and communication (Ralph Alcorn)
>> 3. Re: Electronics and communication (Thomas Jamrog)
>> 4. Re: TP vs Vegetation (gschenk1 at roadrunner.com)
>> 5. Re: TP vs Vegetation (jape1 at cox.net)
>> 6. Re: Burning TP (abiegen at cox.net)
>> 7. San Jacinto to Cabazon (Stephen Clark)
>> 8. Re: [John Muir Trail] Winter tent (Ned Tibbits)
>> 9. Cat holes & disposal of human waste (Edward Anderson)
>> 10. Wife Buy-In and Contracting Biz Prep For Thru Hike (Jesse Baldwin)
>> 11. Re: Burning TP (Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes)
>> 12. Re: Burning TP (Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes)
>> 13. Re: Burning TP (Ann Marie)
>> 14. changing the subject (Tortoise)
>> 15. Re: Wife Buy-In and Contracting Biz Prep For Thru Hike (dicentra)
>> 16. Boulder Bidet (John Coyle)
>> 17. TP vs Vegetation (Reinhold Metzger)
>> 18. TP vs Vegetation (Reinhold Metzger)
>> 19. Hiking in sandals (Miekke)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 10:25:16 -0700
>> From: <lorna at ptera.net>
>> Subject: [pct-l] How Women can Avoid using TP for No. 1
>> To: <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Message-ID: <C3D97E5316894C85B8DAB890AE17901F at LornaHP>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>>
>> So many times I?ve seen TP behind a tree or bush that was obviously used
>> by a woman who was just peeing. There is no need for this!! Just pull
>> back any body parts that are in the way, pee, bounce on your haunches a
>> bit, and you?re done!
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 10:28:49 -0700
>> From: Ralph Alcorn <rbalcorn at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Electronics and communication
>> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Message-ID:
>> <
>> CAAAw1RR20s-GC5LrwO-Z3PzsCJEh52GaD08WtYKwV07n1twVDA at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> I would carry two or three spare fully charged camera batteries (they are
>> cheap) - enough to last between resupplies. For the phone get a spare
>> battery (not so cheap) or one of those IGo chargers with tips for your
>> devices and lithium batteries for the IGo.
>>
>> --
>> Ralph Alcorn
>> http://www.backpack45.com/camino2.html
>> http://timecheck00.blogspot.com
>> Shepherd Canyon books, Publisher of
>> We're in the Mountains, Not Over the Hill: Tales and Tips from Seasoned
>> Women Backpackers (also in Kindle), and
>> Camino Chronicle: Walking to Santiago (also in Kindle)
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 13:45:56 -0400
>> From: Thomas Jamrog <balrog at midcoast.com>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Electronics and communication
>> To: patrick griffith <patrickjgriffith at hotmail.com>
>> Cc: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Message-ID: <A374C367-D579-42C5-8776-F765CE3431BD at midcoast.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> Patrick ,
>> This is what I used on my 2010 PCT thru hike and I was able to keep up
>> with a Trailjournal no problem.
>> http://tjamrog.wordpress.com/2010/04/01/electronics-on-the-trail/ I
>> might add that the iPod touch, MIFI, and my Western Mountaineering sleeping
>> bag were the ONLY items that did not break or rip on my PCT hike.
>> I upgraded to an iPhone in 2011 for a 30 day hike in New England.
>> I take a separate digital camera to avoid the battery drain on my iPhone,
>> although the new iOS 6 upgrade to the iPhone has a super panorama function
>> and a very easy way to share photos.
>> I don't use a bounce box. I had one get lost by the post office once and
>> that was a nightmare, and sometimes they do not arrive when you want them
>> to, or you hit the place when it is closed and have to wait. Sometimes
>> the bounce box has arrived but the staff who deals with it makes a
>> mistakes about it not being there when in fact they are there.
>> Better to keep it simple.
>>
>> Uncle Tom
>>
>>
>> On Oct 4, 2012, at 7:02 AM, patrick griffith wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Hi All,
>> >
>> > How do people usually stay in touch with each other, and / or family
>> while on the trail? I'd planned on taking the following with me : a small
>> cell phone, a small music device, and a compact digital camera. I'll put
>> the chargers in my bounce box and recharge everything in resupply towns.
>> Does this sound sensible/reasonable? Also, what sort of access do people
>> have to the internet on trail? If i can i'd like to keep a blog going,
>> uploading reports and photos as I go for friends and family back home, but
>> without a tablet computer or a more expensive smart phone (which i don't
>> really want to carry with me for weight and cost reasons) i'm not sure how
>> regularly i'd be able to do this. What do you all do when you're thru
>> hiking?
>> >
>> > Patrick
>> > _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 9:59:57 -0400
>> From: <gschenk1 at roadrunner.com>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] TP vs Vegetation
>> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Message-ID: <20121004135957.4GQ6T.320936.root at hrndva-web08-z02>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>>
>> ---- Scott Bryce <sbryce at scottbryce.com> wrote:
>> > On 10/3/2012 7:56 PM, Heather wrote:
>> > > Scott, the idea is to "gather" downed vegetation, not "harvest"
>> > > fresh, soft greenery ;)
>> >
>> > In many parts of southern California there isn't much downed vegetation
>> > to gather. If 400 thrus all gathered it to use to clean up with, that
>> > would still hardly be LNT.
>>
>> Rocks work well, too. And there's lots of rocks.
>> I won't mention rattlesnake hide...
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 14:34:33 -0400
>> From: <jape1 at cox.net>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] TP vs Vegetation
>> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Message-ID: <20121004143433.TF3E5.1228259.imail at fed1rmwml108>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> so the bear sez to the lizard, "say bub, does poop stick to your hide?"
>>
>> ---- gschenk1 at roadrunner.com wrote:
>>
>> > Rocks work well, too. And there's lots of rocks.
>> > I won't mention rattlesnake hide...
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 14:36:35 -0400
>> From: <abiegen at cox.net>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Burning TP
>> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Cc: Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes <diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
>> Message-ID: <20121004143635.GKSAR.1239671.imail at fed1rmwml206>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> Shon wrote:
>>
>> >Have you tried Poodle Dog bush for backside wipes?? (joking, of coarse)
>>
>> I had a friend who was a surveyor. He learned this from his father and
>> all the sons were surveyors. They did a lot of work surveying in Oregon.
>> One time at a friend's insistence, they brought the friend along on a
>> surveying trip. They got dropped in the middle of some Oregon forest by
>> helicopter with food and supplies, to survey and to be picked up two weeks
>> later. Those supplies did not include toilet paper.
>>
>> The noobie friend had to go number 2 and asked the brothers what he
>> should do. They told him to just find some leaves and use them to wipe up.
>> The noobie went off to do his business and returned a short while later. He
>> told them that he had found some really soft leaves that worked great. He
>> went on and on about how soft these leaves were and how he would always
>> look for them when he had to go.
>>
>> Later that evening the noobie was experiencing some itching and
>> discomfort that seemed to get worse as the night wore on. When the medivac
>> helicopter carried him off the next morning the brothers agreed that next
>> time they should make sure that noobies know what poison oak looks like.
>>
>> This was presented to me as a true story. Given similar situations with
>> my son's friends I believe it.
>>
>> TrailHacker
>> --
>> "When my feet hurt, I can't think straight"
>> Abraham Lincoln
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 12:29:43 -0700
>> From: Stephen Clark <rowriver at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [pct-l] San Jacinto to Cabazon
>> To: pct-l <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Message-ID:
>> <
>> CABAzAtFVdu50cw5pak2c8GQMVc0imEUKJs95gCaKg9suZQdRPw at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>>
>> Planning on San Jacinto Wilderness to Cabazon (I-10) October 26-28. If
>> anyone needs to complete this portion I could use some company.
>>
>> *Itinerary: *
>> *Friday Oct 26th* - meet at the Palm Springs Tram* (lower station) at
>> 1:00
>> PM take tram to top and hike to Skunk Cabbage Meadows - first night's
>> camp,
>> or you could meet us at Skunk Cabbage from Devil's Slide Trail (Humber
>> Park
>> TH). Look for me at Saddle Junction at 4:00PM.
>> *Saturday Oct 27th* - hike to Fuller Ridge CG, a 12 to 13 mile day (no
>> water @ Fuller Ridge) or to Black Mt Rd CG... a 14 to 15 mile day ((no
>> water @ Black Mt. faucets have been capped)
>> *Sunday Oct 28th* - hike in to Cabazon (Ziggy and Bear's), a 19 to 20 mile
>> day mostly down hill.
>>
>> *Since there is no reliable water in this section you should carry a
>> minimum of 8 liters. *
>>
>> My car will be at Cabazon and I can take 3 to the long term tram parking
>> 'or' Idyllwild (Humber Park) if necessary.
>>
>> Tram prices are: $23.95 for adults and $21.95 for seniors (over 62). If
>> you
>> park at Humber Park be sure to display a forest pass.
>>
>> Please let me know (off list) by Oct 15th if you wish to join me.
>>
>> Quackers
>> aka Stephen
>> RowRiver at gmail.com
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 12:36:18 -0700
>> From: "Ned Tibbits" <ned at mountaineducation.org>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] [John Muir Trail] Winter tent
>> To: <johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com>, <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Message-ID: <3B5C42A1C2894E1BA0A8737231A5D931 at NedPC>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Ok, let?s wade into this one...
>>
>> Over the last 30 years of teaching snow camping and winter travel
>> techniques, we have seen pretty much all the different styles and designs
>> of shelters used on snow in good and bad weather (to include wind alone) by
>> our students. Tested many of those tents for ourselves. Based on that...
>>
>> The ?winter? environment is not friendly nor kind to the human body
>> because of the ?cold and wet? issue. Maintaining your ?internal
>> environment? (between clothing and skin) as warm and dry is your first
>> concern, always. So, when the outside environment gets nasty and you?re
>> exhausted from wallowing through a foot or two of powder, the use of a tent
>> can be life saving just when you need it!
>>
>> A winter tent provides real-time Safety. It gets you out of the wind, the
>> wet, and the cold, all of which strive to steal your heat and threaten your
>> life. Once started, hypothermia is no joke and must be arrested at once. It
>> is not just the issue of frequent storms, but also any circumstance where
>> you get wet in ambient cold, whether from the inside (going too fast or
>> hard and getting sweaty) or the outside (fall in a creek, tumble in the
>> snow, snow cave collapse, snow on your sleeping bag getting you wet, trying
>> to travel in a snow storm/shower, etc.). As we teach our students, it is
>> not worth it to try to continue struggling through the miles over/in snow
>> just to get wet and exhausted when you could be conserving energy and
>> staying warm by resting inside a nice, warm tent. Continue on when the snow
>> conditions allow it (both those that are falling and those that are on the
>> ?ground.?) No need to risk an avalanche!
>>
>> And don?t forget, Spring (when the sun is up longer melting the pack and
>> less fresh powder is accumulating) snow has settled into a more compact,
>> cohesive (though stratified), and for the most part stable mass that is
>> ?usually? free of avalanche danger (a few conditions, here) and easier to
>> walk on (not through as in winter and the need for snowshoes). Spring in
>> the Sierra might be from Easter through thaw (with regard to snow issues)
>> and its on-snow conditions could be said to include warm, longer days with
>> hot sunshine, suncups, below freezing nights (until the thaw starts when
>> nighttime temps hover at freezing or above), hard morning snow surfaces
>> ?good? for walking on, slippery slopes (up, down, and across) that make you
>> happy you brought your Kahtoolas and boots, water everywhere, raging
>> creeks, mud below snowline, sun and retina burns, and a lesser risk of
>> hypothermia/exposure. This is the safest time to be out on snow enjoying
>> the ?winter wonderland? that snow creates!
>> ?Winter,? in contrast, means short days, long nights, ?workable? cold,
>> loose, powder snow, storm systems and winds, and greater risks of
>> hypothermia and exposure. Winter is a different animal than Spring,
>> especially at 11,000 in the Sierra (wouldn?t you agree, Mr. Dittli?)
>>
>> It is safe to insist, Stay out of the high sierra and off all its steep
>> slopes while it is still receiving feet of new snow. This could be from
>> mid-November to mid-April. Even experienced and trained rescuers will fly
>> rather than ski or snowshoe in to locate the hasty foolish.
>>
>> Now, simply put, a tent provides protection from the external environment
>> and comfort within an internal environment. Overall size of the tent is
>> dictated by how much room you need to accomplish your daily-life?s
>> activities like dressing, cooking, studying your maps, calling home, drying
>> out wet clothing and gear, going to the bathroom in a blizzard, etc. while
>> stuck inside for those longer winter hours or during periods of storms
>> (these can last from less than a day to many days on end).
>>
>> Protection & comfort listed:
>> - Layers of fabric provide a little insulation (between fly and tent
>> body) and, thus, hold in heat a bit (doesn?t last long, but is comforting
>> while you?re moving around).
>> - Layers of fabric provide a barrier from the cold wind that is trying to
>> take away your body heat.
>> - The waterproof layer away from the tent body allows condensation to
>> build ?out there? rather than on a wall you can touch (that will get you
>> wet?never allow yourself to get wet in the winter environment!).
>> - Almost-to-the-ground Fly sheet blocks wind-driven rain and snow from
>> blowing up on the inner, non-waterproof ceiling of the tent getting it and
>> you wet.
>> - Nylon inner-wall material (vs. mosquito netting in the summer tent)
>> keeps some more wind out and heat in.
>> - Easy-to-set-up aluminum, shock-corded and lubricated pole systems that
>> reach from the ground on one side to the ground on the other side keep the
>> tent from collapsing under a two or three-foot over-night snow load
>> (remember, ?decent? snow storms can dump faster than an inch/hour! If you
>> can?t see the tree in front of you because of heavy blowing snow, it is
>> falling at least this fast).
>> - Enough poles crossing over the top of the tent making for smaller
>> unsupported wall and roof fabric panels will support snow best.
>> - The smaller the unsupported fabric panels, the less ?wind-flappage?
>> (non-technical term).
>> - Wind flappage makes noise (that may keep you awake at night),
>> contributes to tent anchors pulling out (causing more flappage and leading
>> to tent collapse), causes seams to separate and allow moisture in, and
>> makes for further tent fabric stretching (already happening when it is
>> raining or snowing because nylon does this when wet) that will allow
>> further tent roof compression under load. As the fly stretches and is
>> loaded by snow, it probably will start touching the inner ceiling fabric.
>> What this will subsequently cause is condensation to accumulate on both
>> surfaces at the same time (especially when you are cooking inside with
>> insufficient flow-through ventilation) and you may get water dripping on
>> you from above or at least running down the walls (this is especially true
>> of all single-wall tents in the cold).
>> - Doors at each end allow cooking in one vestibule while gear is stored
>> in the other.
>> - Seamless tub floors keep moisture out that might ruin your sleeping
>> bag. Durable floors endure issues of the floor freezing to the snow
>> overnight when pulled up in the morning.
>> - Big zippers can be opened easier and tend not to freeze readily during
>> storms.
>> - Multiple tie-outs help tremendously in the winds of snow storms and you
>> sleep better knowing everything is tied down!
>>
>> What all this means is what you use in the summer will not provide the
>> needed safety, security, and protection for winter/spring conditions. Under
>> ideal winter conditions, you can get by with a 3-season shelter, but what I
>> have described above is a 4-season tent. We have seen ponchos, capes,
>> bivys, single-walls, 1-pole, 2-pole, and 2 and a half-pole shelters used in
>> late winter with disastrous results. That is why we bring another 4-season
>> tent for folks to bail into when theirs collapses in the middle of the
>> night!
>>
>> Of course, you can dig snow caves. They work great! Nice and warm and
>> cozy (conditions apply). But keep in mind, the well-constructed ones may
>> take two or three people a few hours to dig and you tend to get pretty wet
>> in the process.
>>
>> If you appreciated this info, let us know and we?ll add more practical
>> stuff to help you with your planning. The high trails need not be avoided
>> in the winter or spring. Just know what to expect and plan for safe passage!
>>
>>
>>
>> Ned Tibbits, Director
>> Mountain Education
>> www.mountaineducation.org
>>
>> From: Kim Fishburn
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 10:53 AM
>> To: johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Winter tent
>>
>>
>>
>> If you have the money I still recommend the Stephenson. Its lightweight,
>> and great at shedding wind. My only real complaint about the tent is the
>> Aluminized Liner. You won't want to be in the tent once the sun hits it and
>> it warms up. It does however prevent much condensation from forming, if any.
>>
>> http://www.terragalleria.com/parks/np-image.dena11632.html
>>
>> http://www.terragalleria.com/mountain/info/ice/mk2.html
>>
>>
>> The guy that has this website was featured at the end of Ken Burns
>> documentary on the National Parks. If I remember right Ken found this guys
>> website and used it as a reference for locations for filming.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> From: Bill Cathey <b.cathey at yahoo.com>
>> To: "johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com" <johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 3, 2012 11:18 AM
>> Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Winter tent
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks, Kim. That's something I've considered for the future, when I have
>> more experience. But, for now, I would probably feel more comfortable using
>> a tent. I only started backpacking last year. If I take some type of
>> course, I would like to have using tarps properly be part of the skills
>> covered.
>>
>> bill
>>
>> On Oct 2, 2012, at 11:14 PM, Kim Fishburn <outhiking_55 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Some people here in Minnesota just use a tarp and bivy.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> From: Bill <b.cathey at yahoo.com>
>> To: johnmuirtrail at yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2012 9:54 PM
>> Subject: [John Muir Trail] Winter tent
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm thinking of trying out some winter camping this year. Does anyone
>> have any recommendations on winter tents? Along with the Sierras and
>> Yosemite, I'd eventually like to do some camping in locations such as
>> Yellowstone, Grand Tetons, and the N. Rim of the Grand Canyon, if that
>> makes a difference when selecting a tent.
>>
>> I see that REI has one of their 20% off for members sales coming up, so
>> I'd like to take advantage of it, if possible.
>>
>> Thanks for any info.
>>
>> bill
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 12:36:48 -0700 (PDT)
>> From: Edward Anderson <mendoridered at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: [pct-l] Cat holes & disposal of human waste
>> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Cc: Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes <diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
>> Message-ID:
>> <1349379408.24054.YahooMailNeo at web111606.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> ?
>> This summer I rode one horse (no pack horse)?NOBO starting at Horseshoe
>> Meadows and finishing in Yosemite Valley. Doing that section
>> finally?finished the PCT for me
>> ?
>> Twice during my ride this summer I saw small signs on the side of the
>> trail with arrows pointing up a trail?to where there was apparently some
>> kind of outhouse.You were asked to use it to reduce pollution in those high
>> use areas. I could not see the outhouses from the trail. Unfortunately, I
>> do not remember the two locations. I am not even sure that they were on the
>> JMT since I had descended?to resupply at both Cedar Grove and Vermilion
>> V.Resort.?Since I didn't need to go, I rode on. I think that is a great
>> idea - so long as they are completely?hidden - not visible from the
>> trail.?The signs looked pretty new, perhaps I was looking at experiments to
>> see if hikers would use them and the?pathogens, those?that end up in the
>> water,?could be reduced. Maybe there will be more in the future. I'm for it
>> in high-use areas as they can be well?hidden from view.?
>> ??
>> Regarding TP and cat holes. It is very important that cat holes be
>> located properly and?dug deep enough. I consider it to be especially
>> important that they be dug into organic material. Decomposition is already
>> taking place there due to the presence of carbonic acid and bacteria. I
>> have also used bio-degradable TP and peed on it or poured a little water on
>> it?(to wet it and start the decomposition) and stirred it with a small
>> stick?before filling the hole. Of course, the contaminated stick must?also
>> be buried in the hole.??Instead of TP, I have also sometimes used leaves
>> and especially the lichen moss (one species is?pale?green in color and the
>> other is very dark green-black)?that you notice on the dead, and
>> often?fallen branches of fir trees.?One excellent leaf is?called "mules
>> ear". ?If course, I also bury?those in the cat hole. One other thing that I
>> do is, after filling the hole, and camouflaging it, I pound the surface
>> directly above a
>> couple of times with my heel to create a shallow depression that
>> rain?water will collect in - so it will trickle down, helping with the
>> decomposition, and reducing the chance of erosion washing out what is in
>> the cat hole.
>> ?
>> One problem that women hikers must?have is that when they urinate
>> (several timed a day) they don't necessarily dig a deep enough cat hole -
>> unfortunately, sometimes no cat hole at all.?The urine itself is sterile.
>> No pathogens at all. (It can be used to wash a wound).?It is the eyesore of
>> seeing TP that sometimes ends upon the surface that bothers me. The best
>> solution, if you use TP, is to bring the TP out. More and more thrus are
>> doing just?that. I think that it is the week-enders who are less conscious
>> of "leave no trace".
>> ?
>> I am most concerned about human fecal material (which is very high in
>> pathogens)?finding its way into drinking water sources. I am very careful
>> where I get my water (and what I touch -?since I don't take 0 days in
>> towns, touching handles, salt shakers, etc. is not an issue)?and have not
>> had a problem during my four years' riding the PCT. I have never used
>> chemicals to treat my water but have occasionally had to filter if I
>> considered the source risky.
>> ?
>> MendoRider-Hiker
>> ?
>> ?
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 10
>> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 10:31:37 -0700 (PDT)
>> From: Jesse Baldwin <jessembaldwin at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: [pct-l] Wife Buy-In and Contracting Biz Prep For Thru Hike
>> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Message-ID:
>> <1349371897.73478.YahooMailNeo at web162705.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> Basically, I have a goal of thru-hiking the PCT and it's time to put some
>> meat to it by setting a date. I have chosen 2016 and I have some things to
>> get in order by that time. I own an electrical contracting business, a
>> home, I'm married to a "non-backpacker" wife and I have two sons. My oldest
>> is 17 and almost out of the house (I hope) and the youngest is 6. The
>> youngest will be turning 10 in May of 2016 (hopefully on the trail).
>> My long-winded-point IS, I did a "Google" search re: wife permission PCT,
>> etc since there is some resistance and mostly incredulity from the spouse.
>> (Not much in the way of search results came up)
>> I announced the date to her last week, and while watching the Nat Geo PCT
>> doc (little lame, I know) I told her only 300 hundred or so people tried it
>> in a year. She asked "How many people are in the US?" and I responded, "I
>> don't know, around 300 million maybe." She said I should easily be able to
>> figure out my odds for going by using the two figures...
>>
>> My question is: has anyone else had similar experience with a less than
>> ecstatic partner in fostering buy-in and successfully planning and carrying
>> out a thru-hike?
>> And/ Or
>> Does anyone have experience with prepping a contracting (or other small
>> biz) for being away for up to 6 months on a thru-hike?
>>
>> Thanks in advance!
>> ?
>> Jesse Baldwin
>> Owner
>> Baldwin Industrial Group
>> CA C-10 License #925362
>> www.BaldwinIndustrialGroup.com <http://www.baldwinindustrialgroup.com/>
>> www.MammothLakesContractors.com <http://www.mammothlakescontractors.com/>
>> Ph. (760) 914-2455
>> 53 South Landing Road
>> Crowley Lake, CA 93546
>>
>> Thank you for choosing Baldwin Industrial Group!
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 11
>> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 18:42:10 -0700
>> From: Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes <diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Burning TP
>> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Message-ID:
>> <95ECDE75-2C88-4B6F-ACB3-E6F41D19A735 at santabarbarahikes.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>>
>>
>> On Oct 4, 2012, at 10:00 AM, pct-l-request at backcountry.net wrote:
>> >
>> > From: Scott Bryce <sbryce at scottbryce.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] Burning TP
>>
>> > On 10/2/2012 7:26 PM, Heather wrote:
>> >> I just don't pack TP, but choose natural vegetation
>> >
>> > I have never understood how gathering vegetation to clean up with fits
>> > in with the leave no trace ethic. If we all tore leaves off of plants
>> > for any other purpose, it would certainly not be LNT.
>>
>> Didn't I hike through the Kimberly-Clark clear cuts just before
>> Highway 36 near Chester? If you are using TP, Kleenex or Paper
>> towels, there's a good likelihood you ARE using natural vegetation.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 12
>> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 18:45:35 -0700
>> From: Diane Soini of Santa Barbara Hikes <diane at santabarbarahikes.com>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Burning TP
>> To: shon mcganty <smcganty at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Message-ID:
>> <B2EA7EAE-2A39-466F-A488-8BDB38C1E0F2 at santabarbarahikes.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>>
>> Ha ha, yes I do know a lot of plants and yes I do know poodle dog
>> bush. Most hikers don't know anything about their surroundings and
>> don't want to. I would rather know a little bit, or be like Shroomer
>> and know enough to eat (and wipe) my way through.
>>
>> On Oct 4, 2012, at 9:04 AM, shon mcganty wrote:
>>
>> > Wow, you know a lot of different sage plants.
>> >
>> > Have you tried Poodle Dog bush for backside wipes? (joking, of
>> > coarse)
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 13
>> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 19:05:49 -0700 (PDT)
>> From: Ann Marie <dbanmrkr at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Burning TP
>> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Message-ID:
>> <1349402749.62545.YahooMailNeo at web140601.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> A question: How many of you carry out used Wet Ones, or other baby wipes?
>> Why is used TP different?
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 14
>> Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2012 21:05:04 -0700
>> From: Tortoise <Tortoise73 at charter.net>
>> Subject: [pct-l] changing the subject
>> To: patrick griffith <patrickjgriffith at hotmail.com>, Pacific Crest
>> Trail List <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Message-ID: <506E5C70.1030109 at charter.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> If you want to change the subject and discuss something else, please do
>> not
>> reply to an existing message. Start with a new message. Otherwise two or
>> more different subjects get tangled in the same thread (for those of us
>> whose email client keeps messages organized by thread).
>>
>> --
>> Tortoise
>>
>> Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent
>> revolution inevitable
>> President John F Kennedy, 1962
>>
>> All content is copyrighted. Reproduction or use elsewhere is is expressly
>> prohibited without the express permission of the author. Use within the
>> PCT-list is permitted.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 15
>> Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 07:45:46 -0700 (PDT)
>> From: dicentra <dicentragirl at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: Re: [pct-l] Wife Buy-In and Contracting Biz Prep For Thru
>> Hike
>> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>, Jesse Baldwin
>> <jessembaldwin at yahoo.com>
>> Message-ID:
>> <1349448346.27697.YahooMailClassic at web162004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>>
>> I don't have anything terribly useful to add other than... I feel your
>> pain.
>> ?
>> My little on is 6 1/2 and my plan is to hike in 2017.? With her in tow.
>> ?Hubby hasn't exactly said no... but it will be a challenge at any rate.?
>> (For the record, me being a female has no weight in his mind. He's far more
>> confident in?my abilities than I am.)
>> ?
>> Watching this thread!
>> ?
>> ~Dicentra
>>
>>
>> http://www.onepanwonders.com?~ <http://www.onepanwonders.com/?~>Backcountry Cooking at its Finest
>> http://www.freewebs.com/dicentra
>>
>> ?
>>
>> --- On Thu, 10/4/12, Jesse Baldwin <jessembaldwin at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Jesse Baldwin <jessembaldwin at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: [pct-l] Wife Buy-In and Contracting Biz Prep For Thru Hike
>> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Date: Thursday, October 4, 2012, 10:31 AM
>>
>>
>> Basically, I have a goal of thru-hiking the PCT and it's time to put some
>> meat to it by setting a date. I have chosen 2016 and I have some things to
>> get in order by that time. I own an electrical contracting business, a
>> home, I'm married to a "non-backpacker" wife and I have two sons. My oldest
>> is 17 and almost out of the house (I hope) and the youngest is 6. The
>> youngest will be turning 10 in May of 2016 (hopefully on the trail).
>> My long-winded-point IS, I did a "Google" search re: wife permission PCT,
>> etc since there is some resistance and mostly incredulity from the spouse.
>> (Not much in the way of search results came up)
>> I announced the date to her last week, and while watching the Nat Geo PCT
>> doc (little lame, I know) I told her only 300 hundred or so people tried it
>> in a year. She asked "How many people are in the US?" and I responded, "I
>> don't know, around 300 million maybe." She said I should easily be able to
>> figure out my odds for going by using the two figures...
>>
>> My question is: has anyone else had similar experience with a less than
>> ecstatic partner in fostering buy-in and successfully planning and carrying
>> out a thru-hike?
>> And/ Or
>> Does anyone have experience with prepping a contracting (or other small
>> biz) for being away for up to 6 months on a thru-hike?
>>
>> Thanks in advance!
>> ?
>> Jesse Baldwin
>> Owner
>> Baldwin Industrial Group
>> CA C-10 License #925362
>> www.BaldwinIndustrialGroup.com <http://www.baldwinindustrialgroup.com/>
>> www.MammothLakesContractors.com <http://www.mammothlakescontractors.com/>
>> Ph. (760) 914-2455
>> 53 South Landing Road
>> Crowley Lake, CA 93546
>>
>> Thank you for choosing Baldwin Industrial Group!
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 16
>> Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 08:30:56 -0700
>> From: John Coyle <jcoyle at sanjuan.edu>
>> Subject: [pct-l] Boulder Bidet
>> To: "'pct-l at backcountry.net'" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Message-ID:
>> <BA88A7B46BF31C4FA68E8DEDDCDB92F3472E17711B at MAIL4.sjn.sanjuan.edu
>> >
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Konichi-wa Yoshihiro. Very good, I get the impression you have used the
>> Boulder Bidet. I have not, but I am thinking of trying it. I think bidets
>> are not as common in America as Japan and Europe, so Americans may have to
>> make an adjustment in thinking, but worth a try. Here is a link to the
>> product for those that missed it:
>> http://www.amazon.com/Boulder-Bidet-Portable-Travel-Backpacking/dp/B005ONIO1A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349450156&sr=8-1&keywords=boulder+bidet
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 17
>> Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 03:48:50 -0700
>> From: Reinhold Metzger <reinholdmetzger at cox.net>
>> Subject: [pct-l] TP vs Vegetation
>> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Message-ID: <506EBB12.9070904 at cox.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> You all can use your flat rocks, pine cones, moth, grass, cactus flowers
>> and poison ivy to wipe your rear ends...I tried that ones when I ran out
>> of TP.
>> Me,....I stick with TP....it's faster, more sanitary and does a better
>> job.
>> Flat rocks, pine cones, cactus flowers, grass, etc. does a half ass job.
>> You guys may not mind running around with messy, smelly behinds.
>> Me,.....I like a clean odor free rear end.
>> No wonder long distance hikers have a reputation of smelling bad.
>>
>> That may also explains why all the good looking hiker babes always hang
>> around me at the camp sites instead of staying with their hiking partners.
>>
>> Also, I would not be surprised if some of you waste precious drinking
>> water to wash those smelly behinds or do it at the next lake or creek
>> crossing.
>> That, of course, goes a long way to enhance our drinking water.
>> I don't like the idea of unknowingly coming in contact with via
>> touching, sitting or walking on rocks and vegetation soiled with human
>> feces, littering the trail.
>> At least, exposed TP I can see and avoid....that is not the case with
>> feces covered rocks and vegetation, unless they are buried which very
>> often is not the case.
>> Exposed TP may be less pleasing to look at, but from a health point of
>> view is less of a health problem than feces covered rocks and vegetation
>> scattered along the trail.
>>
>> It is my opinion that the problem with exposed TP along the trail is
>> primarily caused by hikers to lazy or unwilling to carry a potty trowel
>> to dig a potty hole deep enough to prevent it from being properly
>> covered or dug up by animals and far enough from the trail and camp
>> sites so it would not be visible even if dug up.
>> I hear hikers telling me all the time...."ooohhh I don't carry a potty
>> trowel, I use a stick, rock or my boot to dig a potty hole.
>> Yeah,...right...2" deep covered with 1" of dirt, or less.
>> The evidence of this is very obvious.
>>
>> I can just imagine a hiker running around in the middle of a rainy night
>> looking frantically for a stick or rock to dig a 6"-8" potty hole and a
>> flat rock, pine cone or cactus flower to wipe the rear end.
>> Yeah....most likely the hiker, without a potty trowel or TP, wanting to
>> get out of the rain as soon as possible, will abandon his search for the
>> stick, right flat rock, pine cone, grass or cactus flower and just duck
>> behind the nearest bush and get it over with.....besides, who wants to
>> wipe with wet grass?
>> Same for a hiker on the trail who has a sudden urge to go and is in to
>> much distress to take the time to look for the right flat rock, pine
>> cone, grass or cactus flower.
>>
>> There is some gear I will always carry on my hikes, including my sawed
>> off potty trowel and TP...even on my JMT fast packs where UL is carried
>> to the extreme.
>> My trusted sawed off potty trowel allows me to dig a 6" - 8" potty hole
>> in no time at all and cover it with enough soil and a rock so it will
>> not be dug up and I don't have to waste time looking for flat rocks,
>> sticks, pine cones, poison ivy leaves or cactus flowers.
>>
>> JMT Reinhold
>> Your good smelling, TP loving trail companion
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> Ken wrote:
>> If you can't find vegetation use smooth rocks
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> Heather wrote:
>> I just don't pack TP, but use natural vegetation.
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> Diane wrote:
>> There's way more Tp-able natural material in So-Cal than in the forested
>> areas!
>> The best is sage. White sage works well, rabbit sage is great, purple
>> sage and yerba santa work well, coastal sage scrub is good, too.
>> Bonus is you smell nicer afterwards.
>> Dry grass works.
>> Get long, thin dry grass and just fold it over a few times.
>> Of low- elevation evergreens, chamise is ever-present.
>> I've used sticks and rocks and evergreen boughs as well.
>> All that stuff just gets any "residue" off.
>> The real cleaning takes place when you wash yourself........
>> I was also quite disturbed by all the TP on the trail in Oregon.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 18
>> Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2012 03:52:12 -0700
>> From: Reinhold Metzger <reinholdmetzger at cox.net>
>> Subject: [pct-l] TP vs Vegetation
>> To: pct-l at backcountry.net
>> Message-ID: <506EBBDC.4010909 at cox.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> You all can use your flat rocks, pine cones, moth, grass, cactus flowers
>> and poison ivy to wipe your rear ends...I tried that ones when I ran out
>> of TP.
>> Me,....I stick with TP....it's faster, more sanitary and does a better
>> job.
>> Flat rocks, pine cones, cactus flowers, grass, etc. does a half ass job.
>> You guys may not mind running around with a messy, smelly behind.
>> Me,.....I like a clean odor free rear end.
>> No wonder long distance hikers have a reputation of smelling bad.
>> Also, I would not be surprised if some of you waste precious drinking
>> water to wash those smelly behinds or do it at the next lake or creek
>> crossing.
>> That, of course, goes a long way to enhance our drinking water.
>> I don't like the idea of unknowingly coming in contact with via
>> touching, sitting or walking on rocks and vegetation soiled with human
>> feces, littering the trail.
>> At least, exposed TP I can see and avoid....that is not the case with
>> feces covered rocks and vegetation, unless they are buried which very
>> often is not the case.
>> Exposed TP may be less pleasing to look at, but from a health point of
>> view is less of a health problem than feces covered vegetation scattered
>> along the trail.
>>
>> It is my opinion that the problem with exposed TP along the trail is
>> primarily caused by hikers to lazy or unwilling to carry a potty trowel
>> to dig a cat hole deep enough to prevent it from being properly covered
>> or dug up by animals and far enough from the trail and camp sites so it
>> would not be visible even if dug up.
>> I hear hikers telling me....ooohhhh I don't carry a potty trowel....I
>> use a stick, rock or my boot to dig a cat hole
>>
>> There's way more Tp-able natural material in So-Cal than in the forested
>> areas!
>> The best is sage. White sage works well, rabbit sage is great, purple
>> sage and yerba santa work well, coastal sage scrub is good, too.
>> Bonus is you smell nicer afterwards.
>> Dry grass works.
>> Get long, thin dry grass and just fold it over a few times.
>> Of low- elevation evergreens, chamise is ever-present.
>> I've used sticks and rocks and evergreen boughs as well.
>> All that stuff just gets any "residue" off.
>> The real cleaning takes place when you wash yourself........
>> I was also quite disturbed by all the TP on the trail in Oregon.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 19
>> Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2012 09:14:37 -0700
>> From: Miekke <rayvenwahine at yahoo.com>
>> Subject: [pct-l] Hiking in sandals
>> To: "pct-l at backcountry.net" <pct-l at backcountry.net>
>> Message-ID: <422C419A-5728-41B5-B3F0-628A1DB4EB43 at yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> Hi list!
>> I regularly get blisters on my inner left heel area. Last weekend one
>> started forming on the right side too, and as an additional bonus I also
>> had blisters starting up on the inner balls of both feet. Obviously, I need
>> to have a pro help me figure out what's up with that, but I'm also thinking
>> about trying sandals because mostly those hot spot areas will not be
>> covered if I'm in sandals. I also like the idea of not having to empty my
>> shoes out all the time.
>> So, for those of you who have hiked in sandals, what are the pros & cons,
>> and what make/model/etc do you recommend?
>> Thanks for the input!
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pct-L mailing list
>> Pct-L at backcountry.net
>> To unsubcribe, or change options visit:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/mailman/listinfo/pct-l
>>
>> List Archives:
>> http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/
>>
>> All content is copyrighted by the respective authors.
>> Reproduction is prohibited without express permission.
>>
>> End of Pct-L Digest, Vol 58, Issue 5
>> ************************************
>>
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