[pct-l] OpSacks

Thu Apr 11 06:39:48 CDT 2013

I would suspect that other than when carrying out tests (with great care
and cleanliness), in the real use world it would be very easy to touch the
outside of any sort of bag with hands that had also touched food (or left
adequate scent to attract some hungry critter with a decent sense of smell).

On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 2:53 AM, Timothy Nye <timpnye at gmail.com> wrote:

> I've always discounted the claims for OpSacks since I read an advisory
> regarding bears in Yosemite and the Forest Service advising against leaving
> any food items in your vehicle. Bears were described as having a more
> advanced sense of smell than a domestic dog, although breed wasn't
> specified. What stuck with me, however, was the advice that a bear could
> smell the contents of a can of peaches in a car trunk. Crap!
>
> I don't know if that is true, but I've found no reason to doubt it.  I
> certainly haven't been able to shake the mental image that it conjured.
> I'll just continue to sleep next to my food bag.  I'll always believe a
> bear thinks you've abandoned your food if you distance yourself from it and
> its therefore fair game.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Apr 10, 2013, at 6:23 PM, Jim Marco <jdm27 at cornell.edu> wrote:
>
> > Mendorider,
> >                Yeah, the tests could have been tainted. I reviewed the
> test procedures for about 5 minutes and found one spot that could have
> produced some tainted results. But, generally it looks pretty solid. And,
> it is based on fairly clean chemistry.  Nylon and most other plastic films
> are known to leak other substances. For example, water supplys disappearing
> from old shelters...turns out it was evaporating right through the plastic
> as they found out in the later 60's.
> >                Coyote are a pretty good test, I guess.  I am more prone
> to trust anything using bear encounters, though.
> >                I have heard of bear charms. Camphor and cedar oil were
> both recommended. Never bothered with either, myself. Had more problems
> with coons and deer than bear though we have our share around.
> >                My thoughts only. . .
> >                                jdm
> >
> > From: Edward Anderson [mailto:mendoridered at yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 6:05 PM
> > To: Jim Marco; pct-l at backcountry.net
> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] OpSacks
> >
> > Hi Jim,
> >
> > My dog has an excellent sense of smell for food. When I have time,I will
> have to run tests with him. I can't help but doubt what that article says.
> But, I will test (I am a "tester" by nature) - and also, I will test the
> coyotes that are abundant around where I live in Agua Dulce. My tests have
> only been with rodents. Their sense of smell is said to be equal to that of
> dogs - and neither rodents nor dogs are nearly as good at finding food as
> are bears. On the PCT, while riding through N. Calif., Oregon, and
> Washington I sometimes noticed that the hikers were hanging their food bags
> high in trees. I just used camouflaged OPSaks and also surrounded my tent
> and camp location with bear charms with a diameter of about 40 to 50 feet.
> That worked for me. I have been using the "bear charms" (mothballs in
> cotton tobacco sacks) in bear country for about 25 years now. The bears
> dislike the smell of the mothballs - the opposite of food. Where I come
> from, people use mothballs to discou
>  ra
> > ge bears from getting into their garbage cans.
> >
> > MendoRider
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Jim Marco <jdm27 at cornell.edu<mailto:jdm27 at cornell.edu>>
> > To: "pct-l at backcountry.net<mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net>" <
> pct-l at backcountry.net<mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net>>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:41 AM
> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] OpSacks
> >
> > Hey Mendo-Rider, you should take a look at the article. Basically the
> dogs they were using could not see anything. The percentage of hits to
> misses was way to high to account for by any other means except by smell.
> >    Interesting read and well worth the money.
> >    My thoughts only . . .
> >        jdm
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net<mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net>
> [mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net<mailto:pct-l-bounces at backcountry.net>]
> On Behalf Of Edward Anderson
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 2:27 PM
> > To: Ed Jarrett; pct-l at backcountry.net<mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net>
> > Subject: Re: [pct-l] OpSacks
> >
> > Hi Ed Jarrett,
> >
> > OPSaks were very effective during my ride of the PCT. I mostly lived on
> the PCT for over six months. With a horse, I can't hitch into towns as the
> hikers do - my "0" days were mostly on the trail.  I resupplied myself by
> caching. I learned a lot - especially when I came, after 10 days, to my
> food cache near Beldon Town. All 30 pounds of processed horse feed was
> gone. I had stored it in the heat-sealed Food-Saver bags. My food, stored
> in an OPSak was untouched. The Ranger there said that it was the work of
> rodents. From then on I used OPSaks for all food. - mine and my horse's.  I
> have done a lot of testing on rodents in my barn.  They do get into
> ZipLocks but don't violate the OPSaks. They also fail to get into some of
> the pre-packaged foods. Apparently they are not smart enough to SEE, and
> then realize what is inside. I was testing various foods that are placed on
> a rodent run and laying side-by-side for several days. Pre-packaged cheeses
> and energy  bars went first and ev
>  en
> > tually odoriferous foods in the double ZipLocks. After 10 days the
> OPSaks were OK. Of course, both were transparent containers.
> >
> > Now, I will describe what I did while on the PCT and in bear country.
>  (In the Sierra parks, I did use the bear cans as required) .  Let me note
> that bears and dogs are both smart and can SEE what is inside a transparent
> bag.  I camoflagued the OPSaks and also located them well away from my camp
> - as you do with the bear cans.  Without the camouflage, I was concerned
> that a wandering bear might just see the sack and walk close enough to
> investigate what was inside. Of course, they would tear it open just as a
> dog would. They are smart!
> >
> > MendoRider-Hiker
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Ed Jarrett <edjarrett at msn.com<mailto:edjarrett at msn.com>>
> > To: PCT List <pct-l at backcountry.net<mailto:pct-l at backcountry.net>>
> > Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 10:01 AM
> > Subject: [pct-l] OpSacks
> >
> > Backpacking Light has an article out now on the effectiveness of odor
> proof bags.  And the result does not look too good.  The K9's involved in
> the test seemed not to care if the order was contained in an OpSack or a
> regular Ziploc.  A link to the article is attached, but you must be a
> member to read it.
> >
> http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/odor_proof_bags_study.html?m=00726_uzhpVTCPYGZpAwxyqufeQ#.UWWWS6IkiSo
> > Ed Jarrett (Eeyore) Blog: http://aclayjar.blogspot.com/  <
> http://aclayjar.blogspot.com/%C2%A0> Twitter:
> https://twitter.com/EdJarrett53 Facebook:
> https://www.facebook.com/ed.jarrett.71
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